Sequels Do Not Bring Carnage for 4!

[IceVenom]

I am looking and reading these Spiderman 4 theories and i keep seeing Carnage. This character does not work with out venom.

Further More I'd feel completely screwed over if venom is only coming out for spidy 3 (the fifteen minutes he was in) only to have Carnage steal the show in Spider man 4.

I am all for a Spider man and venom team up against carnage. Maybe not right away. Personally I'd like to see some fresh characters like Kraven and Lizard for 4 and Bring back Venom for 5 with some great fights then bring in carnage for the middle to have spidy and venom team up at the end.

Thats asking alot, but above all else. No Carnage! unless Venom is involved.

Discuss.

 

[prluver]

Not like that. But all these hours past. And no one really cares about your idea. I think Carnage would make the people feel like it was a good idea to bring venom. To get this sort of thing happening.

 

[Visionary]

No Carnage or Venom, we've had enough symbiote for one movie. Let's move on to the classic Stan Lee villains, please.

 

[Symbiote Hulk]

No Carnage or Venom, we've had enough symbiote for one movie. Let's move on to the classic Stan Lee villains, please.

Mmmm....naaaah!

Carnage is a must. Wether Venom is in it or not. Would be cool if Venom could come back though...

 

[chief103182]

How about a focus on the Lizard, and the Lizard only for one movie. We've seen what great things Raimi can do with one villain. Spider-Man 3 was nonstop action, violence, and multiple villains...but don't get me wrong, I loved it. But let's slow down and revert back to the style of the first two movies. I can see logic behind Kraven being in it, I'm not knocking that, but I say it's time to slow down again and gradually build up to an action-packed 6th movie if they're still planning on it.

I understand fans want Carnage, but I think what fans should want the most is a great movie. I think Carnage is a bit, um, suggestive considering his past, but that's not to say I don't think he'd be good on film if they did it right. How about this: At some point during the movie (maybe the end) it is mentioned that the symbiote sample Connors has in his lab escapes. You know, don't show the little thing crawling out the window, but have someone mention something about it, that way it's left open for Carnage in the next movie maybe. Just a thought.

 

[candyman]

I hope Carnage is in the next movie myself.

 

[Drizzle]

I don't want to see Carnage in 4. I'd much rather see it focus on Lizard and Kraven. But I would like to see Carnage in either 5 or 6.

 

[spideyman101]

Everytime Carnage is mentioned as being in a future sequel, everyone always uses the SAME three excuses:

1: Carnage doesn't have enough substance!

2: Carnage will get an R-Rating!!!

or

3: NO CARNAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's my answers....

1:
Neither did Sandman...

Here's my suggestions to a bigger Carnage story...

For the movie, put Cletus on drugs... have him addicted and, since Harry's drug addiction story wasn't played out, have Cletus have that part. Show how evil drugs are by Cletus!

And, by the way, not ever villain HAS to have a HUGE, sad story...

Green Goblin:
He's in danger of loosing his company and the only real reason he became the Green Goblin was to save it. And the only reason he became a villain is to stop the Board company from taking it from him. Then Spidey got in the way, and he started fighting him.

Doctor Octopus:
His life-long dream is at stake, so he begins to rebuild his creation, and in the process, steals money from banks. Spidey stops him, and Ock fights him. Now his creation is done and he needs tritium, he hunts Spidey, to give to Harry, for the tritium.

New Goblin:
He thinks Spider-Man killed his father, and now that he knows Peter is Spidey, he feels he must kill his best friend to protect his father's honor. He eventually learns the real story and decides to help his friend instead.

Sandman:
His daughter is dying and he needs money. He steals from banks and Spidey stops him. Spidey, now hunts Sandman, when learning that he killed Uncle Ben. But Sandman really didn't kill him, he accidentally did it.

Venom:
Peter stole his girlfriend, and also proved his villanious photo to be a fake, thus taking away his job at the Daily Bugle. Now that he has the symbiote, he will stop at nothing to hurt Peter and those he loves.

Green Goblin... that's not exactly a big story right there...

Doctor Octopus... still... not a big story...

New Goblin... ok, this is a very good story...

Sandman... originally not a good story... Sam Raimi's version is pretty good...

Venom... It's your typical revenge story...

So really the only REALLY in-depth stories are New Goblin's and Sandman's... New Goblin's is the biggest...

But Green Goblin, Doc Ock and Venom are really just typical stories...

Now a lot can be done with Carnage...

Carnage:
Cletus has had a dark past. He's killed both his parents, and MANY others on the streets of New York. He is also a drug-addict. In one serial killing attempt, he broke into Columbia University to go on a college killing spree massacre. He breaks into Dr. Connor's lab, but finds no one there. While in there, a recently spawned symbiote (red symbiote) attaches to his shoe. He leaves and finds the cops waiting for his outside. He is arrested and sent to a high security prison. While there, the red symbiote bonds with him, creating Carnage. Carnage now goes on a killing spree... killing 4 people, before Spidey shows up to try and stop him. Later in the movie they could show what drugs can do to you. They can show Cletus in his recent apartment trying to find crumbs of drugs on the floor, desperate for his "fix". Anyway, in the final battle him and Spidey battle on an air plane in midair. They go in and out of it, in an exciting, long battle. Finally the symbiote ends up in the engine and blows up. Spidey stops the plane from falling.

Why would the symbiote be spawning?

Simple... a symbiote survives by feeding off of it's host. Doctor Connor's sample has gone without feeding for a long time. What does it do when it is about to die? It spawns to a younger, new symbiote. The black symbiote dies and the red continues it's live until Cletus comes along...

Then there's those who beleive Carnage is way to violent...

Anakin burning beside lava was violent, was it not? And it got a PG-13 rating... There are camera tricks to get the point of serial killing across without actually seeing it. Show shadows, and hear screaming. Nuff said... if they do it right, Carnage could work...

So now you know my take on Carnage...

and please don't come in here and use your same old response: "he's too voilent... he doesn't have enough substance..."

read the WHOLE post first...

 

[GoldGoblin]

No Carnage or Venom, we've had enough symbiote for one movie. Let's move on to the classic Stan Lee villains, please.

^

 

[Sloth7d]

Carnage should not be introduced in any of the next three movies. I just don't want to see him. I'm sorry but thats the way I feel. Maybe if they did a Spider-man begins further down the line and made it a darker movie with an R rating. That would be cool.

 

[Eros]

no carnage please.

 

[TheScarecrow]

I think we need to go back to having one villain and well developed plot.

I would like a classic villain as well.

 

[Knightsaber Priss]

I think they should utilize Carnage in the next movie because this will give us all a chance to see that Venom/Eddie Brock isn't all that evil as was suggested in SM3. You all just know you want to see Spidey and Venom team up together to defeat Carnage and perhaps Lizard, whom we've all been waiting to see since the preproduction of the second movie. If Carnage and Lizard are to be the villains, would it not be appropriate for a Venom/Spidey team up since Carnage was spawned from Venom and Lizard is closely connected to Peter Parker?

 

[spider-neil]

I think we need to go back to having one villain and well developed plot.

I would like a classic villain as well.

exactly. in an ideal world it should have gone

SM3 - GG2 (build up brock, not that I like venom but loads of people do)

SM4 - VENOM (build up lizard)

SM5 - LIZARD

don't know where that leaves sandman though

two or more villians don't work, some people will point to BB but RAG (both guises) were hardly on screen

 

[Knightsaber Priss]

Come on, you guys know you want to see Carnage offed by Venom in the fourth movie.

 

[spider-neil]

Come on, you guys know you want to see Carnage offed by Venom in the fourth movie.

I really don't want to see venom or carnage in the next movie. I want sam to return to the single (silver age) villian formula of the first two movies.
SM4 should be a lizard only film.

if lizard isn't sharing screen time with another villian you can build up conners and his change into lizard, focus on his family, have lizard terrorise may and mj. you can flesh out all the characters like SM1 and SM2.

 

[TheCaretaker]

I want Lizard and Carnage, cmon you know you do too, i'd also love a comeback for Venom, but if not the film will still work with just Lizard and Carnage.

 

[Eddie Brock]

How about no Carnage and no Venom?

Venom fulfilled his entire purpose in the movies...bringing Carnage in would destroy the symbolism of Venom....plus a cardboard box is more complex than Carnage.

 

[Venom 1988]

I want Lizard and Carnage, cmon you know you do too, i'd also love a comeback for Venom, but if not the film will still work with just Lizard and Carnage.

Lizard? Yes
Carnage? no

 

[GoldGoblin]

How about no Carnage and no Venom?

Venom fulfilled his entire purpose in the movies...bringing Carnage in would destroy the symbolism of Venom....plus a cardboard box is more complex than Carnage.

^
Exactly,Carnage would just ruin Venom's image in so many ways.

 

[drmick]

I came into this forum to start a thread asking people to stop suggesting carnage for SM4 as it's annoying me in the SM3 forum.

What do I find?

An entire Sequel forum with Carnage being suggested as a villian! Madness......

Surely the jury must surely be out now on multiple villians in a superhero movie?

 

[KangConquers]

... He breaks into Dr. Connor's lab, but finds no one there. While in there, a recently spawned symbiote (red symbiote) attaches to his shoe. He leaves and finds the cops waiting for his outside. He is arrested and sent to a high security prison. While there, the red symbiote bonds with him, creating Carnage. Carnage now goes on a killing spree... killing 4 people, before Spidey shows up to try and stop him. Later in the movie they could show what drugs can do to you. They can show Cletus in his recent apartment trying to find crumbs of drugs on the floor, desperate for his "fix". Anyway, in the final battle him and Spidey battle on an air plane in midair. They go in and out of it, in an exciting, long battle. Finally the symbiote ends up in the engine and blows up. Spidey stops the plane from falling.

You proved in no way that Carnage has substance.

He has no emotional attachments to anything...that's what makes him a weak character.

the Goblins had deep involvement in Peter's personal life.

Doctor Octopus lost his wife and went insane.

Sandman had the tragically ill daughter.

Carnage is a character with no heart to carry a movie; the point of the Spider-Man movies has always been that no one is entirely good or evil; that's what's made them so great, the characters seem human.

Carnage is a character with no emotional core.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

No Carnage.

 

[bellepheron]

I cant' believe how many people there are on here saying such things as "Let's have Carnage and Lizard for Spidey 4, and put Venom in there too, oh and maybe Kraven too, infact just put the Sinister 6 in it aswell...."

Do none of you guys know what makes a good movie, and did none of you appreciate how bad SM3 was,with its multiple villains and storylines,compared to SM1 and SM2?!?!

Its that attitude that will persuade the Sony execs to throw in 5 villains and totally ruin the Spidey franchise once and for all!!!

Lizard for SM4 and thats it!!!

 

[Knightsaber Priss]

I cant' believe how many people there are on here saying such things as "Let's have Carnage and Lizard for Spidey 4, and put Venom in there too, oh and maybe Kraven too, infact just put the Sinister 6 in it aswell...."

Do none of you guys know what makes a good movie, and did none of you appreciate how bad SM3 was,with its multiple villains and storylines,compared to SM1 and SM2?!?!

Its that attitude that will persuade the Sony execs to throw in 5 villains and totally ruin the Spidey franchise once and for all!!!

Lizard for SM4 and thats it!!!

Look, any writer worth their sand can figure out a way to effectively write Spider-man, Venom, Carnage and Lizard into a movie. Why, I've been doing this alot in my head at night while at work and I'm just a lousy fanfiction writer. What you need to find is a writer who is adept at ensemble pieces and sufficiently rotating the characters so that everyone gets equal airtime. In my head I've created a scenario where Peter finds out Brock is still very much alive, perhaps have Eddie as Venom terrorize Peter a bit. Then mysterious, brutal murders start taking place and the blame immediately falls on Venom. Add into this the origin of Lizard since we do not need to set up Venom's origin since this was done in SM3. I was thinking Dr. Connors could show Peter how he's been able to create a serum that regenerates lost limbs utilizing lizard DNA. Perhaps throw in scene of the transmogrification later on of Connors changing into Lizard with Peter coming to his lab afterwards for some scientific consultation, he spots Connors in a corner writhing in agony but when he checks to see if Connors is okay, he jerks around to reveal he has become the Lizard, fights ensues, Connors bests Spidey and hides in the sewers, yadda yadda yadda. Then we get the reveal that Carnage is the real killer, absolving Eddie of guilt. Spidey and Venom team up in the final showdown to take out Carnage and rescue Dr. Connors with an antidote to reverse the serum. The End. Why is this so monumentally difficult to do in your eyes?! I'm an amateur and I easily figured things out in 5 seconds.

P.S. Why yes, I am available to help write a script for Spidey 4 too. Just come on down to the Laundrymat I work at at the beginning of each week when I'm scheduled to work.