The Dark Knight To Bleach or Not to Bleach? That is the Question

[Phsycology]

I figured as such. I can only assume the same sentiment would have been shared with Joker and bleached skin.

Yes I think it would, but that doesn't diminish the fact that the joker having make up rather than bleached skin is a better choice IMO.

 

[ultimatefan]

My absolute last instance on this frikking perma-white thing is... It doesn´t really matter. Joker doesn´t have an origin story in the movie, he´s fully formed, and you can kind of make up what you want of how his looks came to be. He has scars, which we don´t really know how he´s got, and the one time we see him without the make up his face looks pale and weird, so who knows. Yeah, it seems to kinda smear, but for some reason it´s not removed even when he´s in jail. This Joker is a force of nature, he has the "multiple choice past" that Alan Moore referred to in The Killing Joke, and he tells a different "tragedy" for his origin each time, like Paul Dini says in Mad Love. He´s as inscrutable as he is unreasonable, unthreatenable, etc. I love this take.

 

[regwec]

I sort of agree with that. Ledger's Joker is, de facto permawhite, because no scenario is crafted that necessitates the exploration of what happens when the makeup (if it is entirely makeup) is removed. I am interested to see how this might be maintained in a sequel, where he will presumably have been detained at Arkham or Blackgate for some time.

 

[Dave 5]

does it really matter the guy would still scared the crap out of you no matter what.

 

[regwec]

...?

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

The make up sucked.

And really, wasn't even easily noticed except in the interrogation scene.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

i thought the make up was quality, i find someone who decides to put make up on to highlight there deformitys much more horrorfying than some poor unfortunate soul who fell into a vat of chemicals

 

[regwec]

The apparent make up visual works mostly because the Nolan's made The Joker much less human than he has been in the comics. TDK's Joker seems somehow invincible, omnipresent and omniscient. A flakey face is perhaps the only thing that prevents him being identified as a supernatural entity.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

yea in the comics joker always had a breaking point, i remember in the hush series batman beats the absolute crap out of joker and jokers pleading with him to stop. batman was ready to break his one rule but then gordon stops him from doing so. but i just couldn't imagen TDKs joker pleading batman to stop beating him.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Oh...the perma white skin would simply had reinforced the concept of him being almost supernaturally un-****ing-stoppable.

I mean, really...the make up served no purpose in my mind other than to annoy me during the interrogation.

I think Joker's could have been completely bleached white...and just leave it at that. No need to explain anything at all. evah.

That's basically all that bothered me. It's the only thing that ever as about this film. That's saying alot about how good a film it is.

 

[Saint]

yea in the comics joker always had a breaking point, i remember in the hush series batman beats the absolute crap out of joker and jokers pleading with him to stop. batman was ready to break his one rule but then gordon stops him from doing so. but i just couldn't imagen TDKs joker pleading batman to stop beating him.

Joker wasn't pleading with Batman to stop--he was trying to say "Stop me if you've heard this one before," but Batman kept interrupting him with... well, with pummeling.

The Joker goes:
"Stop..."
"Stop..."
"Stop--"
"Stop me if if you've heard this one before..."

He treats the entire beating as a joke. He runs away form Batman, flailing his arms in mock terror.

Similarly, I loved how Joker responded to Batman's beating in TDK: laughing and telling him outright, "You have nothing to threaten me with."

 

[Saint]

The apparent make up visual works mostly because the Nolan's made The Joker much less human than he has been in the comics. TDK's Joker seems somehow invincible, omnipresent and omniscient. A flakey face is perhaps the only thing that prevents him being identified as a supernatural entity.

Indeed. I was very pleased to find that the Joker conformed nicely to what I was hoping for, as communicated in my assorted posts in this thread. Especially the "Guerilla Joker" one.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

yea in the comics joker always had a breaking point, i remember in the hush series batman beats the absolute crap out of joker and jokers pleading with him to stop. batman was ready to break his one rule but then gordon stops him from doing so. but i just couldn't imagen TDKs joker pleading batman to stop beating him.

He did that on purpose, though.

I thought he acted that way to play the victim, since he was innocent, and once Batman was going to kill him (I believe it was noted later in the series that the Joker got involved just to have Batman kill him) he'd had died screaming for mercy of his innocence and it'd make Batman feel even worse once he'd learn that the Joker hadn't shot Tommy. So that the joke would all be on Batman.

Least, that's the way I saw it.

 

[The_Raganork]

He did that on purpose, though.

I thought he acted that way to play the victim, since he was innocent, and once Batman was going to kill him (I believe it was noted later in the series that the Joker got involved just to have Batman kill him) he'd had died screaming for mercy of his innocence and it'd make Batman feel even worse once he'd learn that the Joker hadn't shot Tommy. So that the joke would all be on Batman.

Least, that's the way I saw it.

Indeed.

 

[Crook]

The apparent make up visual works mostly because the Nolan's made The Joker much less human than he has been in the comics. TDK's Joker seems somehow invincible, omnipresent and omniscient. A flakey face is perhaps the only thing that prevents him being identified as a supernatural entity.

Really? TDK Joker was ahead of the game in almost every respect, blindsiding anyone that got in his way. But that's part of the traditional Joker too, wouldn't you say? Being unpredictable and for a moment having the upper-hand?

The only slight difference here, is that in a matter of days, he made Gotham crumble to it's knees. Which admittedly is far more of a grander scale than the plans Joker usually cooks up in the comics. But then again, his first appearances were pretty close to nailing that "unstoppable force" trait.

 

[nickyg641]

Whilst watching the movie, it really didn't matter to me that he wore makeup. I won't say it worked better than permawhite skin, but I will say that it worked just as well.

That isn't to say, however, that I would advocate seeing makeup in the comics.

And I agree with Reg. I loved that the Joker seemed to be an almost supernatural figure. He seemed to just come out of nowhere, and then disappear back into it.

I think it would have been interesting if he were permawhite, because then he would have been a truly spectral figure.

 

[The_Raganork]

Whilst watching the movie, it really didn't matter to me that he wore makeup. I won't say it worked better than permawhite skin, but I will say that it worked just as well.

That isn't to say, however, that I would advocate seeing makeup in the comics.

And I agree with Reg. I loved that the Joker seemed to be an almost supernatural figure. He seemed to just come out of nowhere, and then disappear back into it.

I think it would have been interesting if he were permawhite, because then he would have been a truly spectral figure.

Makeup shows intent.

He does this to himself; he knows whats happening. This guy is thinking and planning being this clown and killing these people.

Permawhite has no explanation; it's aimless. Its done it's without reason or much thought.

It exist to exist.

 

[nickyg641]

Makeup shows intent.

He does this to himself; he knows whats happening. This guy is thinking and planning being this clown and killing these people.

Permawhite has no explanation; it's aimless. Its done it's without reason or much thought.

It exist to exist.

Which is true, but it can be looked at in a different way: the Joker does not so much create himself, as he just sort of is. It's his natural state. He simply sprouted up this way, like mold grows in a dingy place. Which is an interesting metaphor in itself.

 

[Shane Diesel]

Goes to show that a well-written character and an excellent story overcomes these kinds of issues.

 

[nickyg641]

Goes to show that a well-written character and an excellent story overcomes these kinds of issues.

True, true.

 

[X Knight]

y'know...it just seems to me that a deranged, murdering psychopath who CHOOSES to apply crusty white clown makeup seems just slight more f***** up than a deranged, murdering psychopath whose face is naturally perma-white due to chemical exposure......

 

[nickyg641]

y'know...it just seems to me that a deranged, murdering psychopath who CHOOSES to apply crusty white clown makeup seems just slight more f***** up than a deranged, murdering psychopath whose face is naturally perma-white due to chemical exposure......

Thanks for sharing. We'll take that into account at our next Permawhite Supremecist meeting.

 

[regwec]

One thing that does occur to me is that, if The Joker is recast in a future movie, a method will have to be found to suggest that the makeup has become permanent. Otherwise we have a guy in a cell without his warpaint, which would bring the whole daemonic house of cards constructed as the character's icore in TDK tumbling down.

 

[nickyg641]

One thing that does occur to me is that, if The Joker is recast in a future movie, a method will have to be found to suggest that the makeup has become permanent. Otherwise we have a guy in a cell without his warpaint, which would bring the whole daemonic house of cards constructed as the character's icore in TDK tumbling down.

That is an issue, but I can think of a few ways around it. An idea that occured to me is, if they got the Hannibal Lecter route (which I really hope they do), they can show the makeup-less Joker in shadow in his cell for the first few scenes that we see him. When the time comes that the police request information from him on Gotham's newest villain, he could cooperate on the conditon that he be allowed his makeup.

Or find some other reason that Arkham would allow him to wear his makeup. Perhaps he threatens to kill other inmates unless they provide him with a supply of facepaint?

Just not some really obvious, gimmicky thing, like he gets plastic surgery or something.

 

[shadowman2]

I don't see a big deal with the whole permawhite/makeup thing. Seriously, Ledger gave a classic performance that will be remembered....for.....ever. Makeup or not.