The Dark Knight To Bleach or Not to Bleach? That is the Question

[nickyg641]

Please tell me where this bit of info comes from.

The chealsea grin is something used pretty exclusively by the mob and gangs, usually when somebody steps on the wrong toes. It's the most likely origin for this Joker, it seems.

 

[nickyg641]

Well asides from the costume designer, Oldman, and Caine, practically stating such....his line in the prologue.

"Whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you stranger"

The chelsea smile is a mob trademark and is used to deliver a message to people they have issues with. When Joker has the same exact cuts and vaguely references an incident that was clearly about him, well you can easily connect the dots.

Precisely.

 

[Some Dude]

Well asides from the costume designer, Oldman, and Caine, practically stating such....his line in the prologue.

"Whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you stranger"

The chelsea smile is a mob trademark and is used to deliver a message to people they have issues with. When Joker has the same exact cuts and vaguely references an incident that was clearly about him, well you can easily connect the dots.

Speculation.

 

[Crook]

Denial.

 

[Closerframe]

Well asides from the costume designer, Oldman, and Caine, practically stating such....his line in the prologue.

"Whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you stranger"

The chelsea smile is a mob trademark and is used to deliver a message to people they have issues with. When Joker has the same exact cuts and vaguely references an incident that was clearly about him, well you can easily connect the dots.

But that still doesn't mean he was given the smile by a gang or mob, the line sounds to me that this motherf***** has been through alot, and at the end of it all it made him who we see now.

 

[Crook]

Please tell me who you think gives him that smile then, if it wasn't the mob.

 

[Some Dude]

Uh, himself?

You really believe there's no other explanation?

Who's in denial?

 

[nickyg641]

Uh, himself?

You really believe there's no other explanation?

Who's in denial?

Considering the line "Whatever doesn't kill you" implies that something has happened to him to give him the scars, it's likely not self-mutilation. And, as Crook and I have already said, the Chealsea grin is something used almost exlcusively by the mob.

 

[Crook]

Uh, himself?

You really believe there's no other explanation?

Who's in denial?

He very well could have given it to himself. A popular theory is the mob gave him a scar on one side, and out of insanity, he completes the look and adopts the clown persona shortly thereafter.

And I'm sorry, but the opening line in introducing the new Joker to audiences, has vast significance. It has relevance and is meant to be a hint to his past. You cannot interpret that line as something that discounts an outside force inflicting damage on a pre-Joker.

 

[Closerframe]

Please tell me who you think gives him that smile then, if it wasn't the mob.

No one knows, his origin is left up to the imagination of the viewer. It could have been done by the mob or it could be self-mutilation. We may never know, thats why I love Nolan's Joker, he's like Anton Chigurh from "No Country For Old Men" his origins are touched upon but left to the viewers.

 

[Crook]

No one knows, his origin is left up to the imagination of the viewer. It could have been done by the mob or it could be self-mutilation. We may never know, thats why I love Nolan's Joker, he's like Anton Chigurh from "No Country For Old Men" his origins are touched upon but left to the viewers.

But see, what you're doing is ignoring the implications of Joker's line. Considering it's his introduction in the film, you'd think one wouldn't push it aside as if it was a throwaway quote.

It's also blatantly ignoring the crime roots of the chelsea grin. It wasn't chosen for this character simply because it looks like a smile. When a large part of this film is the fall of the mob, and the rise of a new criminal, I mean...c'mon.

 

[Some Dude]

He very well could have given it to himself. A popular theory is the mob gave him a scar on one side, and out of insanity, he completes the look and adopts the clown persona shortly thereafter.

And I'm sorry, but the opening line in introducing the new Joker to audiences, has vast significance. It has relevance and is meant to be a hint to his past. You cannot interpret that line as something that discounts an outside force inflicting damage on a pre-Joker.

I agree about the significances of that line, but I don't see how that means the mob did it.

It could have even been accidental like the early zip line rumor implied.

Besides, that statement was obviously there to help emphasize the mystery of this Joker's origins. Right from his first unveilingthe Joker gives a line that simply teases the audience as to how he got to be the way he did.

 

[Some Dude]

It wasn't chosen for this character simply because it looks like a smile.

Obviously it's just a coincidence and wasn't an adaption of the comic book Joker's inhumanely big smile .

What about Berjemo's Joker or the Batman Confidential Joker?

 

[Crook]

I agree about the significances of that line, but I don't see how that means that mob did it.

One can infer from his statements that:

A) An outside force was involved (i.e. not self-infliction)
B) A (traumatic) event that changed his mentality

Given that there's a huge close-up of his face, depicting the facial scars, then the 2 are connected. As has been stated, chelsea grins are mob-exclusive. If it was not self-inflicted, you can give a good guess that it was the mob that did it to him, as a message. And there's no need to mention that while he says this line, he's robbing a MOB bank....

It could have even been accidental like the early zip line rumor implied.

A rumor that was shot down by the same people that reported it. Not to mention how ridiculously convenient it sounds in the first place. I'm glad that's gone.

Besides, that statement was obviously there to help empathize the mystery of this Joker's origins. Right from his first unveiling the Joker gives a line that simply teases the audience as to how he got to be the way he did.

Not disagreeing. I said from the beginning it was a hint to his past. It's vague, but not enough that you can't see where it's going.

Obviously it's just a coincidence and wasn't an adaption of the comic book Joker's inhumanely big smile .

What about Berjemo's Joker or the Batman Confidential Joker?

Both were clearly explained as to what caused the smile. You can't really argue with what the artist intended.

 

[deathfromabove]

Denial.

um, its speculation and you know it.

He very well could have given it to himself. A popular theory is the mob gave him a scar on one side, and out of insanity, he completes the look and adopts the clown persona shortly thereafter.

And I'm sorry, but the opening line in introducing the new Joker to audiences, has vast significance. It has relevance and is meant to be a hint to his past. You cannot interpret that line as something that discounts an outside force inflicting damage on a pre-Joker.

yes it implies something happened to him. its a very telling line. but assuming it was caused by the the mob is just that: an assumption.

to me it looks like the left side of his face was involved in some kind of accident and he gave himself the cheslea scar on the right side to match.

bottom line, by leaving it up to the audience, crook can believe it was the mob, i can believe it was a baking accident, and johnny two shoes can think he messed up his own face. its unknown.

 

[Closerframe]

um, its speculation and you know it.



yes it implies something happened to him. its a very telling line. but assuming it was caused by the the mob is just that: an assumption.

to me it looks like the left side of his face was involved in some kind of accident and he gave himself the cheslea scar on the right side to match.

bottom line, by leaving it up to the audience, crook can believe it was the mob, i can believe it was a baking accident, and johnny two shoes can think he messed up his own face. its unknown.

Exactly

 

[Some Dude]

So, there's no other way for his face to be cut up? It just had to be the mob?

I guess this also means Nolan is an idiot or liar since he's plainly stated this Joker won't have an origin.

I'm done with this ****.

 

[The Battousai]

So, there's no other way for his face to be cut up? It just had to be the mob?

I guess this also means Nolan is an idiot or liar since he's plainly stated this Joker won't have an origin.

I'm done with this ****.

Clearly, this is how you see things:

This topic is a bit more complex than that.

 

[Crook]

um, its speculation and you know it.

Yeah. Are we all done stating the absolute obvious?

yes it implies something happened to him. its a very telling line. but assuming it was caused by the the mob is just that: an assumption.

Yes. And if there was no "Whatever doesn't kill you..." line, it'd still be the case as well. However when it discounts self-infliction and you know the origin of the chelsea grin, it becomes much more than just a random guess.

bottom line, by leaving it up to the audience, crook can believe it was the mob, i can believe it was a baking accident, and johnny two shoes can think he messed up his own face. its unknown.

And of the various theories that people COULD conjure up (and have a right to believe in), very few would actually make sense within the story.

 

[Crook]

So, there's no other way for his face to be cut up? It just had to be the mob?

Yes, IGNORE everything I just said. I took the time to plainly list what exactly the line is inferring, and yet you're asking the same damn question that I've answered.

I guess this also means Nolan is an idiot or liar since he's plainly stated this Joker won't have an origin.

Yes, he's an idiot and a liar. On another note, I'm also a lightweight boxing champion and my hobbies constitute slinging cocaine, bullying kids, and banging supermodels.

What you said has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. Hinting at an origin does not meant you have to show it. My god, what a concept!

I'm done with this ****.

Ta-ta.

 

[capt. slaughter]

u sling cocaine dont tell me you cut your stuff bro

 

[Hole Shot]

He very well could have given it to himself. A popular theory is the mob gave him a scar on one side, and out of insanity, he completes the look and adopts the clown persona shortly thereafter.

Could explain why one side of the scarring is much cleaner than the other.

 

[adamwe]

um, its speculation and you know it.



yes it implies something happened to him. its a very telling line. but assuming it was caused by the the mob is just that: an assumption.

to me it looks like the left side of his face was involved in some kind of accident and he gave himself the cheslea scar on the right side to match.

bottom line, by leaving it up to the audience, crook can believe it was the mob, i can believe it was a baking accident, and johnny two shoes can think he messed up his own face. its unknown.

Baking Accident? I know you mean Banking, but how? Didn't he walk through the front door?

 

[Zohan Dvir]

I grew up in Northern New Jersey, have watched dozens upon dozens of mob movies, viewed every episode of the Sopranos multiple times noting how many locations from the show are familiar to me, have read a number of books on la cosa nostra and I've never heard of a chelsea smile as a retributive act as far as the mob is concerned.

 

[The Battousai]

I grew up in Northern New Jersey, have watched dozens upon dozens of mob movies, viewed every episode of the Sopranos multiple times noting how many locations from the show are familiar to me, have read a number of books on la cosa nostra and I've never heard of a chelsea smile as a retributive act as far as the mob is concerned.

It didn't come from American mobs, but from the gangs of Scotland, and later, England.