The Dark Knight To Bleach or Not to Bleach? That is the Question

[Bat-Mite]

Here's what I don't get. How can you explain the permawhite in the movie when in the comics the explaination is so unbelievably stupid?

What's so stupid about it? How is it any more stupid than being bitten by a radioactive spider or being the last survivor of planet Krypton? The latter example, of course, comes from the very same continuity the Joker is a part of. Lest we forget, the Joker is a comic book character and is (and should be) very comic book-ish in nature. I love what Nolan did with him in the movie, but I appreciate the comic book version just as much.

 

[ronny]

there never really was a 100% certain explanation in the comics, the vat of chemicals is just a possibilty.

I just think that one of the things the comics could take from this movie is eliminating The Red Hood scenario. So he appears as he did in the very begining, bleached skin, homicidal nature, utterly insane.
Get rid of the Red Hood and maybe writers will have more freedom to speculate about how he came to be that way.
Just like we can with the Ledger-Joker. It's such a neat touch that has been sullied by the Red Hood stuff.

 

[Bat-Mite]

there never really was a 100% certain explanation in the comics, the vat of chemicals is just a possibilty.

Actually, the chemicals are the one constant about his origin in the comics. It's what happened before the chemical bath that there are multiple explanations for.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

yea i suppose, but i was still under the impression that is still possibly not true, i prefer to not know why hes permawhite, i think its better to speculate. in the killing joke i think his whole story was just fabricated to try and gain sympathy, much like his stories in TDK about his scars. they get the same point across, just different ways of doing so.

 

[CaptainClown]

ya look at the origin in Lovers and madmen, he was hardly a tragic character it just so happened he got dyed white. He was still a monster before and after.

 

[regwec]

I don't really think that Heath's Joker is or isn't permawhite. The visual motif clearly suggests makeup, but the scripting of the character and Jonah's intentions for him indicate supernatural or daemonic overtones. In that respect, it is possible that the glimpses of flesh through the greasepaint were introduced to suggest a human entity beneath it all, where it was absent from the characterisation. That's sort of the opposite of the comics, where The Joker's other-wordly appearance is impregnable, but he can be intimidated or broken like all the rest of us.

It's quite a neat reversal, but I find myself preferring the comicbook version in this respect. I only hope that, after a savvy recast, the clownish guise can be revealed as irreversible, in a continuation of the "escalation" theme.

 

[nickyg641]

If he was to be permawhite and apply his own lipstick and hairdye, I wouldn't have minded, not at all. Like the cut smile, it's a gritty edge that implies that he had an accident (or was it an accident), and created the rest of his persona.

Of course, I don't get my panties in a bunch about it anymore. The makeup and cut smile have grown on me in a big way. Like a tumor.

 

[CaptainClown]

I don't really think that Heath's Joker is or isn't permawhite. The visual motif clearly suggests makeup, but the scripting of the character and Jonah's intentions for him indicate supernatural or daemonic overtones. In that respect, it is possible that the glimpses of flesh through the greasepaint were introduced to suggest a human entity beneath it all, where it was absent from the characterisation. That's sort of the opposite of the comics, where The Joker's other-wordly appearance is impregnable, but he can be intimidated or broken like all the rest of us.

It's quite a neat reversal, but I find myself preferring the comicbook version in this respect. I only hope that, after a savvy recast, the clownish guise can be revealed as irreversible, in a continuation of the "escalation" theme.

When I saw the Joker it looked like a clown/demonic figure was under neath that human exterior and his normal flesh face had worn away to reveal what he really was. That is visually what I got from this look

 

[The Shape]

I only hope that, after a savvy recast, the clownish guise can be revealed as irreversible, in a continuation of the "escalation" theme.

Boy, that would suck.

 

[nickyg641]

Boy, that would suck.

Yeah, it kind if would. Revealing him to be permawhite now would really be a cop-out.

 

[the GRIN Reaper]

"Bleachy, did you say bleachy ... I can't understand you, ENOUGH WITH THIS STUPID B !TCKING !!!"

- Patrick Bateman

 

[MrQuinn]

"Bleachy, did you say bleachy ... I can't understand you, ENOUGH WITH THIS STUPID B !TCKING !!!"

- Patrick Bateman

The Joker was probably returning some video tapes when he was supposed to get bleached.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

he doesn't have to be bleached to be "permawhite" IMO. i think it would be totally believable if it was revealed he is just unhealthily pale, like he hasn't been out in the sun for years. i could imagen hes never really out in daylight and is always skulking in the shadows, so he isn't gonna have normal coloured skin.

 

[nickyg641]

he doesn't have to be bleached to be "permawhite" IMO. i think it would be totally believable if it was revealed he is just unhealthily pale, like he hasn't been out in the sun for years. i could imagen hes never really out in daylight and is always skulking in the shadows, so he isn't gonna have normal coloured skin.

That is unhealthy pale. Not exactly Joker material, I'd say. Even albinism just makes you very pale with a pinkish hue.

 

[regwec]

Boy, that would suck.

Shh.

Yeah, it kind if would. Revealing him to be permawhite now would really be a cop-out.

Which is why it isn't my suggestion- it would hardly be escalation if he was already permawhite, would it?

I envision The Joker, shackled and bound in a stark white room, robbed of his warpaint. He is emaciated, at the point of death, having mutely declined all sustainence for weeks. His reptilian eyes silently note the promising, vibrantly coloured trolley of chemicals wheeled by the nurse that cleans his cell. His eyes flicker, and he is reborn.

 

[nickyg641]

Shh.



Which is why it isn't my suggestion- it would hardly be escalation if he was already permawhite, would it?

I envision The Joker, shackled and bound in a stark white room, robbed of his warpaint. He is emaciated, at the point of death, having mutely declined all sustainence for weeks. His reptilian eyes silently note the promising, vibrantly coloured trolley of chemicals wheeled by the nurse that cleans his cell. His eyes flicker, and he is reborn.

I like that. If he were to become permawhite, it would definitely have to be by his own hand.

But it's still a bit of cop-out to me, to a small degree. They've already established the makeup, and it's a part of the character, now. But, then, if it serves a purpose, I'm sure Nolan could make an idea like that work very well.

 

[Saint]

Here's what I don't get. How can you explain the permawhite in the movie when in the comics the explaination is so unbelievably stupid?

Here's what I said on that a while back, which conforms to Regwec's suggestion above.

If they were to bleach him, it would absolutely have to be his decision to do it to himself. As far as I'm concerned, there is no alternative. It happening accidentally would be a cheat. We know this Joker has absolutely abandoned his humanity, we know he's completely given himself over to this face he's invented. I think it would make sense for him to take it one step further and make it permanent--especially in response to an atmosphere where the doctors are trying to eliminate the Joker persona, wiping away his makeup and trying to cultivate normalcy in him.

If it's to be done, it has to serve a purpose and it has to be relevant. I think that's one way to do it: it's Joker's response to attempts to rehabilitate him. He completely submerges himself in the Joker personality, carving it in stone. Like a baptism.

[A] possible solution could be that Joker chemically burns himself intentionally, which, upon healing, leaves his face in a similar ragged white condition as the makeup, except permanent. It might even be possible while he's in Arkham; they wash the makeup off, and later he (somehow) gets his hands on some chemicals that create the desired effect. He'd be in bandages for a time afterwards, and it could make for a neat reveal. I just question the explainability of finding the correct chemical, especially if he does it in Arkham.

I suppose he could engineer something himself, but that's fairly complicated itself, and equally unlikely within Arkham.

Another possibility--though less interesting--would simply be that, upon escaping Arkham, Joker has his face tattooed. This solution, though, is flawed: if the character is out of Arkham, there would be no one removing his makeup--and thus no need to create a permanent alternative. It wouldn't be a response to anything; it would just be Joker getting a tattoo. I prefer the in-Arkham scenario where it is a reaction to the attempts of the staff to suppress and eliminate his Joker persona.

 

[CaptainClown]

It could be simply Batman trying to wipe off his face and he says something like "I liked my look so much I decided to make it permanent" Leave it as a mystery as how he came about with his new look

 

[regwec]

I like that. If he were to become permawhite, it would definitely have to be by his own hand.



But it's still a bit of cop-out to me, to a small degree. They've already established the makeup, and it's a part of the character, now. But, then, if it serves a purpose, I'm sure Nolan could make an idea like that work very well.

It doesn't have to be a conscous choice by The Joker to become permawhite. Deprived of his paint set, he might just look for the most convenient way to replicate the effect, and fuse himself to his daemonic idiom once again. They fact that the method would be irreversible chemical damage would just underline The Joker's uncompromising physical recklessness.

 

[CaptainClown]

Well the Joker is a liar, so him saying he decided to make himself white could be a lie, maybe even have him debunk it with another story about why he now has a permawhite face

 

[Saint]

Haha, that'd be hilarious: "Wanna know how I got this... uh... fleshtone?"

 

[CaptainClown]

ya, not exactly original on my part, but meh i don't think we would end up getting to that point.

 

[Doc Samson]

I agree with Saint & Regwec, it would be a nice way to still include the Joker, while making it different from TDK and allowing another actor to inhabit the character. I also think it's a damn good reason for his skin to be permawhite in the first place, IMO, it has much better reasoning than the comic version, and relieves the Joker of that slightly tragic aspect to his origin I always felt he had. In short, I think it would be awesome to see this onscreen

 

[Hulk1968]

Remeber at the end of BB, where Gordon hands Batman the Joker's calling card in an evidence bag?
He told Bats "he has a taste of the theatrical"

Just my 2 cents

 

[nickyg641]

Remeber at the end of BB, where Gordon hands Batman the Joker's calling card in an evidence bag?
He told Bats "he has a taste of the theatrical"

Just my 2 cents

Um...thanks for your input...