Age of Extinction Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME.

[Marvin]

hope

Recently visited NewYork(being canadian) and was surprised at how many flags I saw. On porches to down town buildings...

I can only imagine what it's like in Texas.
I suppose this would fall into another racial stereotype, but then again only in a bay movie could such a thing be seen as negative.

I'm thinking this being a Chinese co production, you'll be seeing a ton more american flags than usual. I'm just curious if you'll be seeing any asian cars.

 

[Saint]

You call Optimus's yell dialogue?

I had originally written "not a single line", but since Optimus makes some muffled statement/transmission/whatever when the Wahlberg shocks him, I figured it counts.

 

[Saint]

Take a good long look at just how many films a year, how many films in cinema history rather that have been made in live action and haven't starred humans, "red carpet humans" in the majority of the lead roles. Unless you expect optimus to show up on kimmel, they will need a bankable/pretty star and not just as the 'voice of a car'.

You seem to have mistaken my argument that the Transformers should be characters for the argument that the film can't have, or shouldn't have meatbags. Whoops.

I'll happily accept humans in a movie where the Transformers are still depicted as engaging, unique, important characters, and where the humans have roles that are intertwined interestingly with the core story of the Transformers, and aren't written by a thirteen year old. The girl who is introduced by a shot of her ass in panties and an hour of The Beef stammering and looking for work aren't my speed. Sorry.

 

[Saint]

How can you confirm the quality of the film from the trailer? That sounds silly. If anything, the previous three films are an indication of its quality, but seeing as there was no Writer's Strike, and it's a completely fresh new cast, I hazard a guess this will be mediocre-to-decent from a cinematic snob point of view. From an action-movie Transformers point of view it will no doubt be the shot of adrenaline the franchise has needed.

The only thing you judge a film by its trailer on is whether you want to see it or not. Anything else is ridiculous and pretentiously stupid.

Uh-huh. Rather than have a longwinded, overly literal and anal debate about this, like my past self might have done, how about we circle back when the movie hits theaters, and we'll see if I'm right.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I see many people have been asking why Optimus and Grimlock are fighting, in the cartoons, and even more so the comics, they very rarely get on, Grimlock often thinks he should be the leader of the autobots and Optimus had prove himself in the comics when he 1st became Prime by fighting 4 Decepticons at once while Grimlock stood and watched.

From the looks of things they have kept their rocky relationship from the comics and that to me is only a good thing.

 

[CEREBRAL....]

I see many people have been asking why Optimus and Grimlock are fighting, in the cartoons, and even more so the comics, they very rarely get on, Grimlock often thinks he should be the leader of the autobots and Optimus had prove himself in the comics when he 1st became Prime by fighting 4 Decepticons at once while Grimlock stood and watched.

From the looks of things they have kept their rocky relationship from the comics and that to me is only a good thing.

Cosign; I'm just wondering will grimlock transform and if he speaks, will he sound that of a caveman.

 

[Rock Sexton]

I'm still tired of the "over-designs" for the bots. Don't like Grimlock's at all.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

I'm still tired of the "over-designs" for the bots. Don't like Grimlock's at all.

And these have been way toned down, so I can only imagine how much you like the original super busy ones.

 

[Rock Sexton]

And these have been way toned down, so I can only imagine how much you like the original super busy ones.

For whatever reason I was able to tolerate them in the first film .... as I liked the movie quite a bit. But everything went downhill from there with the sequels.

 

[Marvin]

You seem to have mistaken my argument that the Transformers should be characters for the argument that the film can't have, or shouldn't have meatbags. Whoops.

I'll happily accept humans in a movie where the Transformers are still depicted as engaging, unique, important characters, and where the humans have roles that are intertwined interestingly with the core story of the Transformers, and aren't written by a thirteen year old. The girl who is introduced by a shot of her ass in panties and an hour of The Beef stammering and looking for work aren't my speed. Sorry.

You mentioned taking the GoG and replacing them with TF's...figured that meant what it sounded like it meant. My mistake. You seem to be on the same page about these expensive live action films starring humans and not robots(lots of fans don't see it that way).

As for your stipulations:
Like the early xmen and recent star trek films with their focus on two or three characters(development wise) amongst a choir of bodies(see storm's role in the 2000), these movies are about Optimus, Bee and the villain when it comes to robots. They get plenty of 'time', importance and uniqueness, not so much different from their animated counterparts imo.

As for being written by a thirteen year old girl, I think they they got that covered. As for girls being introduced by way of lingerie or what not, it works for the Bond girls, it serves its audience driven purpose. As for Shia looking for a place in the world, seems like a plausible starting point for a character to develop out of in a story. As for the stammering, it has it charms, but those days are gone. Rejoice.
As for intertwined story, the film film def did it best, but that's my opinion.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

For whatever reason I was able to tolerate them in the first film .... as I liked the movie quite a bit. But everything went downhill from there with the sequels.

I was generally ok with the designs. Prime had features that made him instantly recognizable as Prime, and at the time, that was enough for me. Honestly, as long as Peter Cullen voices him, I'd have been ok with almost any design. I do hope they stick to the more solid looking forms they appear to have in this film. I just hope Prime doesn't have 4 or 5 different versions which I'm afraid is the case. Several of the pics I've seen look just different enough to make me worry he's got 18 forms.

 

[Ultimate Movie-Man]

I'm still tired of the "over-designs" for the bots. Don't like Grimlock's at all.

I disagree with you there - I love it and love the horns. It also for once actually looks what they said in the first film - organic metal. The way he falls as animated is in such a way that it looks biological, which I think is awesome.

However I may be responding to the animation work other than the design. I like what I've seen so far. I'm more curious about his voice. I doubt he'll have the simple voice they used in the show.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

I disagree with you there - I love it and love the horns. It also for once actually looks what they said in the first film - organic metal. The way he falls as animated is in such a way that it looks biological, which I think is awesome.

However I may be responding to the animation work other than the design. I like what I've seen so far. I'm more curious about his voice. I doubt he'll have the simple voice they used in the show.

Idk...if they're meant to be these ancient machines then maybe they speak a very broken English. Maybe not quite as bad as the Hulk speak of the old cartoon, but I could see them doing something similar.

 

[Ultimate Movie-Man]

I reckon it might be a bit of a mixture between the simple dialect and some kind of deep, gravelly Bayspeak

 

[SpideyFan866]

I see many people have been asking why Optimus and Grimlock are fighting, in the cartoons, and even more so the comics, they very rarely get on, Grimlock often thinks he should be the leader of the autobots and Optimus had prove himself in the comics when he 1st became Prime by fighting 4 Decepticons at once while Grimlock stood and watched.

From the looks of things they have kept their rocky relationship from the comics and that to me is only a good thing.

Well, in the cartoon, the Dinobots were baddies (or rather misinformed good guys) for a while before joining the Autobots.

 

[Lord]

Another City Final Battle? The humans plot also doesn't seem like it fits with the "epic" scale they seem to be going for.

Either way, with all the new big franchises that have appeared since 2011, i wonder how much money this will really get, it will probably be a lot, but will it reach the same success of the 3rd film?

 

[Marvin]

If the film starred shia then who knows. But they've managed to find a sweet pocket in which they are drawing in the old audience with extremely tangible continuity(see chicago) whilst mostly avoiding the downfalls of the fourquel fatigue.

Saving the Dino's till now was a good call.

I'm pretty curious what the final numbers will be. It could be the biggest of the year or pull and ASM 1 due to the reboot stigma or fatigue. I do know that the international numbers are what really push things into high totals these days this films international numbers will no doubt be bigger than the last one, whose intl numbers did a lot of leg work. The domestic numbers are anyone's guess at this point imo. Whalberg def is a name these days and it is a step away from the super hero onslaught.

Summer will come down to this or ASM2 and full due to brand power.

 

[Lord]

It's funny that you mention that, in a way, i think that the Transformers trilogy was a sort of spiritual successfor to the Spider-Man trilogy when it comes to mainstream success and box office. But in a world like this right now i wonder if any of those two franchises will be able to go back to its prime, i think that Transformers may be closer to that than Spider-Man due to the full blown reboot and long hiatus since Spider-Man 3 having somewhat hurt the momentum it had.

 

[Saint]

You mentioned taking the GoG and replacing them with TF's...figured that meant what it sounded like it meant. My mistake. You seem to be on the same page about these expensive live action films starring humans and not robots(lots of fans don't see it that way).

Well, the reason I cited GoG is because it was a trailer that decided it was going to sell the film on the merits of a group of unique characters. It went all-in in that respect. That is how I want a Transformers film made. As long as the Transformers are depicted as engaging characters, humans are completely allowable, regardless of role prominence. Transformers Prime is littered with meatbags and that's some of the best Transformers material around.

As for your stipulations:
Like the early xmen and recent star trek films with their focus on two or three characters(development wise) amongst a choir of bodies(see storm's role in the 2000), these movies are about Optimus, Bee and the villain when it comes to robots. They get plenty of 'time', importance and uniqueness, not so much different from their animated counterparts imo.

I don't agree that the selected characters get their due, but I think the more pressing matter is that there's no need to focus on two or three robots. A quality ensemble film is what Transformers is begging to be.

If I boil it right down to it, if you watch a good ensemble movie, you can walk away feeling that anyone on the cast was your favourite character. That's principle is what has made the best interpretations of the Transformers successful. My girlfriend's favourite Transformer is Prowl, all the way back to G1. In Transformers Prime, I think Knockout, a low level Decepticon, is one of the greats. But... nobody walked away from the first Transformers film saying "My favourite is Jazz."

That has been the case with each subsequent film, and it's why these films, for me, consistently fail.

Well, that and the fact that Optimus Prime explicitly demands the genocide of the Decepticons. That really sticks in my craw...

As for being written by a thirteen year old girl, I think they they got that covered. As for girls being introduced by way of lingerie or what not, it works for the Bond girls, it serves its audience driven purpose. As for Shia looking for a place in the world, seems like a plausible starting point for a character to develop out of in a story. As for the stammering, it has it charms, but those days are gone. Rejoice.
As for intertwined story, the film film def did it best, but that's my opinion.

If those things are agreeable to you, that's completely fine. I would like them all to burn in fire.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Cosign; I'm just wondering will grimlock transform and if he speaks, will he sound that of a caveman.

I imagine he will, they seem to be getting everything else spot on with the Dinobots, so I imagine they will get this right as well. Kruger is writing again and he is a big TF fan.

Well, in the cartoon, the Dinobots were baddies (or rather misinformed good guys) for a while before joining the Autobots.

Yep, and in the comics Grimlock was actually once a full blown decepticon, before switching sides to the Autobots. But even then, he barely follows orders and often does his own thing.

 

[Marvin]

Well, the reason I cited GoG is because it was a trailer that decided it was going to sell the film on the merits of a group of unique characters. It went all-in in that respect. That is how I want a Transformers film made. As long as the Transformers are depicted as engaging characters, humans are completely allowable, regardless of role prominence. Transformers Prime is littered with meatbags and that's some of the best Transformers material around.

You missed my point if you still insist on bringing up the cartoons. Old or new it makes no difference if you accept my premise about how every successful(or non) live action film has worked since day one. TF Prime is great but it's a cartoon on network tv with far different check and balances. That last film was entirely off world and if I recall had no humans. Great.


I get why fans want one thing but I also understand why hollywood insists on selling the Mark Whalberg movie. It's no wonder these films make as much money as they do. My aunt isn't interested in the robot movie but she'll be there for this. I digress, I don't think you just want engaging characters from the transformers cause that's clearly there. I think you want it from more than a hand full of them. I can't say I don't agree, I just don't see what they are doing as so bad.

Conversely I think there's lots to learn from Pacific Rim when it comes to accessible genre ilk. I also think GoG is going to be Marvel's lowest grosser, even with the recent relevance bump that Whedon pulled. If that stinger at the end of thor2 told me anything about the audience...It will be ok though, big or small that experiment will be seen as success for them. I'm just wondering how much more money will it make than Serenity. I suppose that comes down to just how much more relevant it is.

If I boil it right down to it, if you watch a good ensemble movie, you can walk away feeling that anyone on the cast was your favourite character. That's principle is what has made the best interpretations of the Transformers successful. My girlfriend's favourite Transformer is Prowl, all the way back to G1. In Transformers Prime, I think Knockout, a low level Decepticon, is one of the greats. But... nobody walked away from the first Transformers film saying "My favourite is Jazz."

You are clearly speaking for yourself. I've seen many a kid/grown person walk out of the theater citing Ironhide as their favorite, bee, prime, star scream(let alone the human contingent of the ensemble)...People like different characters for different reasons and there's no accounting for that. Look up any youtube vid of iron hides death and you'll find many of HIS fans. How much do you want to bet this dinobot will be some kid's favorite after the fact. Good call on jazz though, pointing out a 'red shirt' makes sense. It was a shame really. Same deal with cliff jumper in the TFprime.

Well, that and the fact that Optimus Prime explicitly demands the genocide of the Decepticons. That really sticks in my craw...

Sometimes warriors do that, having endured the long trials of war(death included). Given where the character started it makes for something of a weary arc.

If those things are agreeable to you, that's completely fine. I would like them all to burn in fire.

Luckily I'm not speaking for myself, I figured you weren't either. I merely suggested copious amounts of cinema fans have little issue with things like bond films, and those same large amounts no doubt feel the same here. As for personal complaints, I suppose we're all entitled. Don't let me stop you.

 

[Marvin]

Cool face

 

[Saint]

You missed my point if you still insist on bringing up the cartoons. Old or new it makes no difference if you accept my premise about how every successful(or non) live action film has worked since day one. TF Prime is great but it's a cartoon on network tv with far different check and balances. That last film was entirely off world and if I recall had no humans. Great.

No, I didn't miss your point, it simply was not meaningful to my argument. If you think I'm bringing up cartoons because I think the movies should be exactly like them, you're mistaken. I am making particular, targeted points about why one appeals and the other fails (let's avoid the inevitable response by acknowledging that this is my perspective); to these points, whether it is film or television is no issue. Both are capable of featuring an ensemble of engaging characters.

I digress, I don't think you just want engaging characters from the transformers cause that's clearly there.

Frankly, you're not qualified to speak on what I want. If you find the characters engaging, that is your business. I find them to be dull, lifeless, occasionally contradictory, boring, and sometimes non-existent.

Conversely I think there's lots to learn from Pacific Rim when it comes to accessible genre ilk.

On this, I agree absolutely.

You are clearly speaking for yourself. I've seen many a kid/grown person walk out of the theater citing Ironhide as their favorite, bee, prime, star scream(let alone the human contingent of the ensemble)...

I'm neither able to nor interested in debating anecdotes.

Sometimes warriors do that, having endured the long trials of war(death included). Given where the character started it makes for something of a weary arc.

I don't feel a declaration of genocide was in character even for the needlessly brutal Bay-Prime.

Frankly, I like that Prime was willing to put down some Decepticons. When he's repeatedly executing enemies (which, we'll note, is not the same as killing them in combat), and speaking such gems as "GIVE ME YOUR FACE" and "YOU DIE", that's where you lose me.

Of course, the argument of whether the robots were sufficiently in line with my preferred versions is a separate matter from the other discussion we're having. Let's not confuse the two.

 

[Tristan_McClark]

I'll admit, something was different with the Optimus in TF1 and the one in TF2/TF3. At the end of TF1, didn't Optimus say, "you left me no choice" after Megatron died. Optimus did take out Bonecrusher, (he's still a soldier), but I felt he resented that his kind were fighting each other based on that line.

Maybe we'll see a more vulnerable Prime in AOE.

 

[Marvin]

No, I didn't miss your point, it simply was not meaningful to my argument. If you think I'm bringing up cartoons because I think the movies should be exactly like them, you're mistaken. I am making particular, targeted points about why one appeals and the other fails (let's avoid the inevitable response by acknowledging that this is my perspective); to these points, whether it is film or television is no issue. Both are capable of featuring an ensemble of engaging characters.

I get why you(and others like you) dig the cartoon and it's format/execution more than these films. All the characters play their parts and go though their things whereas in the films it's different. My entire point was to explain why the difference exists. Ergo why I asked for you to point out some other instances in live action where an ensemble of cgi leads do the same thing as these cartoons/you are requesting. We're clearly explaining two different points. You, the point about why this fails(in your opinion of course). Me, why Spielberg himself produced it this way initially and why it succeeds in the grand scheme(in my opinion). To which end, I'd presume you and yours will never be content with these films, as you stated earlier.

I'm neither able to nor interested in debating anecdotes.

Perhaps we should simply default to your generalization then. The one implying no characters from the ensemble are favorites in these films. The merchandising companies should made aware immediately. There are various polls on the net and the answers are varied. Just saying.

I don't feel a declaration of genocide was in character even for the needlessly brutal Bay-Prime.

So you're not speaking on preconceptions and expectations but an analysis self contained to this continuity. I would expect as much. That being said, I disagree. The enemy has had plenty of chances and optimus presented the option at several instances. The villains sit on the brink of genocidal action themselves, they have brutally murdered plenty of humans in the last few 24hrs(that doesn't happen often)....but to the point, Optimus has been alot more brutal every since coming back to life and ripping the Fallen's face of, he's just been betrayed by a prime and his mentor and witnessed said mentor kill his trusted confidant... I'd say as the present characterization dictates, he's doing fine. Besides, they're the underdogs in the midst of game ending stakes, 'kill em all' is a fairly tactical statement. Unless one would rather 'take as many prisoners as you can find'.

"You'll never stop at just one" is this character's turning point. But that's just my opinion.

Of course, the argument of whether the robots were sufficiently in line with my preferred versions is a separate matter from the other discussion we're having. Let's not confuse the two.

Never mind. You are correct though, two separate things.