Twilight of Asgard: the SURTUR thread

[Loki882]

It's less the Spider-Man thing that worries me, and more how they treated Malekith in TDW. He's a pretty big Thor villain, and Feige described him as "a big villain" in the pre-release marketing. And yet once the movie came out, it was pretty clear that Marvel didn't give a crap about Malekith as a character. They were interesting in more Loki, and Malekith was an afterthought. That would be what gives me pause about them using Surtur, or The Enchantress/The Executioner for that matter.

As for "not repeating their mistakes" well Marvel made mistakes with the first film. And then they proceeded to make many of the same mistakes with TDW, and made them worse in many cases. So yeah, there's that.

 

[Fosterson]

It's less the Spider-Man thing that worries me, and more how they treated Malekith in TDW. He's a pretty big Thor villain, and Feige described him as "a big villain" in the pre-release marketing. And yet once the movie came out, it was pretty clear that Marvel didn't give a crap about Malekith as a character. They were interesting in more Loki, and Malekith was an afterthought. That would be what gives me pause about them using Surtur, or The Enchantress/The Executioner for that matter.

As for "not repeating their mistakes" well Marvel made mistakes with the first film. And then they proceeded to make many of the same mistakes with TDW, and made them worse in many cases. So yeah, there's that.

As Seahammer and Ragnaroknnroll pointed out, Malekith really isn't a very major villain in the Thor comics. As I'm hardly an expert on the comics side of things I was very surprised to see that, after a quick Google search, Malekith made a grand total of 20 appearances in the comics between his introduction in June 1984 and December 2009. That really isn't a lot for a supposedly "big villain". Therefore, Marvel choosing to give more screentime to Loki isn't that surprising, really.

Your second paragraph also has an extremely negative tone. You seem to be implying that Marvel are incapable of doing a " Winter Soldier" style Thor movie. Let me put it this way, I doubt many would have expected Cap's sequel to be the standout film of Phase 2, judging by the first film. If Marvel put their minds to it, then I'm sure we'll get an incredible movie.

 

[bubbadoom]

I've been thinking long and hard about how Marvel should approach Surtur as a villain in the movie, and I'm really not that optimistic. I mean, how exactly can they possibly do a villain who is more than 1,000 feet tall without him seeming incredibly goofy and ridiculous in live-action? I fear that they might just turn him into an utterly characterless bad guy whose only purpose in the movie is to fight Thor. Please Marvel, don't give us another Malekith. I want Surtur to have purpose and a personality, but I don't see how they can do that when the guy is too large to fit on screen.

the Celestial in Guardians was huge and he looks amazing so why should Surtur be any less impressive ...?

 

[Loki882]

Or more to the point, the Balrog in LOTR looked amazing (and that movie was like 15 years ago). Just do something like that, but bigger and with an actual personality/speaking role.

 

[Loki882]

As Seahammer and Ragnaroknnroll pointed out, Malekith really isn't a very major villain in the Thor comics. As I'm hardly an expert on the comics side of things I was very surprised to see that, after a quick Google search, Malekith made a grand total of 20 appearances in the comics between his introduction in June 1984 and December 2009. That really isn't a lot for a supposedly "big villain". Therefore, Marvel choosing to give more screentime to Loki isn't that surprising, really.

Your second paragraph also has an extremely negative tone. You seem to be implying that Marvel are incapable of doing a " Winter Soldier" style Thor movie. Let me put it this way, I doubt many would have expected Cap's sequel to be the standout film of Phase 2, judging by the first film. If Marvel put their minds to it, then I'm sure we'll get an incredible movie.

Ironically, you bringing up TWS undermines your own argument. TWS turned Alexander Pierce, who in the comics:

-Is a super-obscure SHIELD agent with not many appearances.
-NOT A VILLAIN!!

And made him into that film's main villain. IM3 took Aldrich Killian, who showed up for like one page in one IM story just to kill himself, and made him into that film's main villain. Compared to them, Malekith has been a much bigger threat in Thor comics, and they've been using him A LOT in recent years (also he has a connection to Surtur, which made it weird that TDW did NOTHING to set him up). So no, that argument doesn't really work.

Oh and I'm going by Marvel's previous track record with Thor films, because we've gotten TWO of them now. When they give me a reason to be super-excited, I will be. But as of yet, they haven't. The most that I can muster is cautious hopefulness at this point.

 

[Adhesive Boy]

The problem with Surtur is if Thor fights him. When have we seen a great fight scene between a human sized guy and a skyscraper? I'm sure it can be done but I think it would be a first.

 

[Mike Murdock]

God of War? Those quick time events are basically just fight scenes anyway since you don't have any real control.

Anyway, this is something I have no control over, so I'm not wasting any time worrying about it. He's always struck me more as an impending force than a calculating charismatic villain. So he really just needs to be big and imposing and a credible threat to all of Asgard. Ideally, he'll have others to help who are more human size.

 

[Fosterson]

Ironically, you bringing up TWS undermines your own argument. TWS turned Alexander Pierce, who in the comics:

-Is a super-obscure SHIELD agent with not many appearances.
-NOT A VILLAIN!!

And made him into that film's main villain. IM3 took Aldrich Killian, who showed up for like one page in one IM story just to kill himself, and made him into that film's main villain. Compared to them, Malekith has been a much bigger threat in Thor comics, and they've been using him A LOT in recent years (also he has a connection to Surtur, which made it weird that TDW did NOTHING to set him up). So no, that argument doesn't really work.

Oh and I'm going by Marvel's previous track record with Thor films, because we've gotten TWO of them now. When they give me a reason to be super-excited, I will be. But as of yet, they haven't. The most that I can muster is cautious hopefulness at this point.

Your point about the villains is true in one sense, but it's also worth noting that Pierce was backed up by Winter Soldier and Killian by the "Mandarin", both of whom are well established comic characters. Also, both of those characters were not marketed as the villains of their respective films and in both cases it was a twist that they were the bad guys. Everyone going into TDW knew that Malekith was the main villain, and unlike Pierce or Killian he didn't have an established character from the comics to back him up. Malekith may well be a much bigger character than Killian or Pierce in the comics, but he's also a much less prominent character than either Bucky or Mandarin in the same medium.

 

[bubbadoom]

The problem with Surtur is if Thor fights him. When have we seen a great fight scene between a human sized guy and a skyscraper? I'm sure it can be done but I think it would be a first.

Talos in Jason and the Argonauts...

 

[Adhesive Boy]

Talos in Jason and the Argonauts...

I don't even know what that is so I can't say that you're wrong (or right).

 

[bubbadoom]

I don't even know what that is so I can't say that you're wrong (or right).

you got some serious movie watching to catch up on - Tom Hanks once called JASON the greatest movie ever made - of course he was giving Ray Harryhausen his special Oscar at the time [I do hope you know who those two fellows are].

 

[Adhesive Boy]

you got some serious movie watching to catch up on - Tom Hanks once called JASON the greatest movie ever made - of course he was giving Ray Harryhausen his special Oscar at the time [I do hope you know who those two fellows are].

I looked it up and I have indeed seen it and I just realized that I've only seen the translated title for it and therefor didn't recognize the original one. It's been quite a while since I saw it though so I can't judge the quality of that fight and compare it to what I'd expect from a Surtur fight.

 

[jaqua99]

I know that there is a villains thread, but as other characters such as Hela have individual threads, I figured Surtur is deserving of his own thread.

I wonder what his role will be, who will play him, if he speaks, his size, etc.

What do all the members think?

 

[JtheDreamer]

I don't think they turn Surtur into anything more than a big bad monster to fight near the film's climax.

 

[First Avenger]

I want to see him forging the Twilight Sword with a big DOOM sound throghout the movie just like the comics.

 

[psylockolussus]

Wow is he appearing in the movie? Wow thats news to me! I always wanted to see him in a movie!

 

[MbJ]

Can't wait to see that concept art.

 

[metaphysician]

I suspect he will not really be the driving villain of the story. He'll be more like a natural disaster, something the actual villains are trying to unleash, but which doesn't really have his own agency or personality. He's fire, and fire burns. . . but what you really need to do is find the guy or gal with matches and gasoline can.

 

[Mjölnir]

I want to see him forging the Twilight Sword with a big DOOM sound throghout the movie just like the comics.

That's something that could be the most epic mid credits scene ever.

 

[Mike Murdock]

What exactly was the confirmation of Surtur? Thor is the hardest of all comic-con to find info on.

My prediction is ominous monster rather than active player, but we'll see.

 

[Moridin]

They should make Surtur the MCU equivalent of B&R's Mr Freeze, have him make loads of fire related puns.

 

[Mjölnir]

What exactly was the confirmation of Surtur? Thor is the hardest of all comic-con to find info on.

My prediction is ominous monster rather than active player, but we'll see.

The video package they showed apparently ended with what apparently looked like real film footage of Hulk jumping off a cliff down against a huge, fiery demon that roars louder than Hulk.

 

[Vartha]

Thought we had a Surtur thread?

I know that there is a villains thread, but as other characters such as Hela have individual threads, I figured Surtur is deserving of his own thread.

I wonder what his role will be, who will play him, if he speaks, his size, etc.

What do all the members think?

 

[Vartha]

Changed the Thread title

 

[jaqua99]

Thought we had a Surtur thread?

Idk man, I work 7 days a week so I didnt feel like looking through previous pages to be honest haha. If you wanna lock this one, or merge them, thatd be a good idea