Ultimate Power

[The Question]

Kyle has already rejected the offer to join. i don't know why he would be with the team. but why wouldn't the government want him? he's a tactical genius and an experienced operator.

We actually haven't seen much to prove he's a tactical genius. He usually just beats the **** out of people. Besides, they have many highly seasoned generals. They've got all the tactical geniuses they need.

keep in mind that he has no powers but has been a successful vigilante for years; a one man SWAT team.

I wouldn't call him a one man SWAT team. He seems to basically beat up muggers, drug adicts, and crazy white supremacists. We haven't really seen him in a situation that would require a SWAT team.

they might not consider him a big a threat as Hyperion but he could definately hurt them, if provoked. remember that he took out two operatives they sent after him, already.

True. My point is, though, that there's nothink Kyle can do that a highly trained military assassin can't. They don't need him because they already have guys like him who would follow orders.

Kyle's also the one who came up with the idea on how to disable Redstone.

You mean calling Mark and having him beat him up.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

But that's really really stupid. Not only would Nighthawk not want to be on the team, but if he were, the only result would be a major disobediance of orders and probably a few bodies the government doesn't want on the pile. There's no role on the team that Nighthawk could fill that a special ops agent could not also fill. And a special ops agent would follow orders.

Actually, Nighthawk has shown far more capable than agents with intelligence. His ability to gain intelligence is going to be superior, obviously, since he's one of those types of characters.

That, and you're really missing the point they kept the genius on the team, despite the fact he had ways, and was more than willing, and even excercized one, to kill the others. He's by far, the most dangerous. If anything, Nighthawk keeps HIM in check.

But then again, Nighthawk is just a regular human, nothing too special about him, despite the fact he keeps seemingly evades the government at every turn, and has a worry about the speedster.

 

[The Question]

Actually, Nighthawk has shown far more capable than agents with intelligence. His ability to gain intelligence is going to be superior, obviously, since he's one of those types of characters.

When has he shown to be far more capable than the United States government at gathering inteligence?

That, and you're really missing the point they kept the genius on the team, despite the fact he had ways, and was more than willing, and even excercized one, to kill the others. He's by far, the most dangerous. If anything, Nighthawk keeps HIM in check.

So could the other members of the team. Burbank's super genius makes him too much of an asset to get rid of. I mean, the stuff he's able to invent is way ahead of any other scientists. Nighthawk, however, doesn't have super genius.

But then again, Nighthawk is just a regular human, nothing too special about him, despite the fact he keeps seemingly evades the government at every turn, and has a worry about the speedster.

When has he seemed to evade the government at every turn? He got the drop on two agents who were onlt sent to figure out what the deal was with him, not to capture him.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

When has he shown to be far more capable than the United States government at gathering inteligence?



So could the other members of the team. Burbank's super genius makes him too much of an asset to get rid of. I mean, the stuff he's able to invent is way ahead of any other scientists. Nighthawk, however, doesn't have super genius.



When has he seemed to evade the government at every turn? He got the drop on two agents who were onlt sent to figure out what the deal was with him, not to capture him.

Yes. Or else they would've known he was more than just some thug in a costume. Seeing how he was a main target, I would think their information was rather crap.

Though Nighthawk DOES have tech that puts tons of soldiers to shame. But keeping around someone who's a big threat to you just goes to show they don't really care who's on the team even if they're a threat.

Actually, they were there to deal with him. As in, make sure he's not a problem. And they failed, miserably. So there you go.

 

[Muze]

When has he shown to be far more capable than the United States government at gathering inteligence?

he found Redstone and the creator of that killer virus didn't he? i'd say that makes them about even.

We actually haven't seen much to prove he's a tactical genius. He usually just beats the **** out of people. Besides, they have many highly seasoned generals. They've got all the tactical geniuses they need.



You mean calling Mark and having him beat him up.

i'm talking about the bit about depriving him of oxygen and using the others to distract Redstone; setting him up for this maneuver. and then there's the stuff he pulls in the future; where Hyperion has taken control of the world. Nighthawk is considered public enemy #1.

 

[The Question]

Yes. Or else they would've known he was more than just some thug in a costume. Seeing how he was a main target, I would think their information was rather crap.

What are you talking about?

Though Nighthawk DOES have tech that puts tons of soldiers to shame.

No, he doesn't. He has a motorcycle, a private jet, a grappling gun, and some ninja stars.

But keeping around someone who's a big threat to you just goes to show they don't really care who's on the team even if they're a threat.

Except, they'd probably be able to control Burbank better than Kyle, and Burbank is much more of an asset than Kyle ever could be.

Actually, they were there to deal with him. As in, make sure he's not a problem. And they failed, miserably. So there you go.

We didn't see what happened. He may have just gotten the drop on them. It happens. Especially since they knew little about him in the first place.

he found Redstone and the creator of that killer virus didn't he? i'd say that makes them about even.

No. Both were instances of old fasioned detective work. Asking witnessess and following leads. He doesn't have superior inteligence than the entire United States government.

i'm talking about the bit about depriving him of oxygen and using the others to distract Redstone; setting him up for this maneuver. and then there's the stuff he pulls in the future; where Hyperion has taken control of the world. Nighthawk is considered public enemy #1.

Yes, he is highly inteligent in combat situations. But so are most of the Military's Generals. If they need tactics, they can call them.

 

[yahman]

IMO the whole affair is a bit of a missmatch, especially you consider the immensly superior power of Hyperion and co, compared to the Ultimates. I might be wrong, but the ability to lift submarines pales in comparisson to hyperions 'Richter scale' strength.

 

[The Question]

Not really. Submarines are really really ****ing heavy.

 

[Docker2.0]

Yeah I was thinking the samething. Hyperion seems to be a lot more powerful than any of the Ultimates.

 

[The Question]

I bet Thor would give him a pretty damned good fight.

 

[yahman]

Not really. Submarines are really really ****ing heavy.

Yeah Submarines weigh loads more than Tectonic plates *sarcasm*

 

[The Question]

Yeah Submarines weigh loads more than Tectonic plates *sarcasm*

Hyperion wasn't lifting tectonic places.

 

[yahman]

I bet Thor would give him a pretty damned good fight.

Based on comparable feats he's literally an insect to Hyperion. If any one has read the last iusse of the Supreme Power serries and knows anything about physics and forces, they will agree.

 

[yahman]

Hyperion wasn't lifting tectonic places.

No, he was described as having 'strength that can only be measured on the Richter scale .... not just free weights but the movement of Tectonic plates'

This was illustrated clearly in the last issue of the Supreme Power arc, when he causes an Earthquake measuring a 10.5 on the richter scale. Note that the earthquake that caused the tsunami disaster was less than an 9.

 

[Docker2.0]

I bet Thor would give him a pretty damned good fight.

I don't think so. Judging by the Ultimates books, it seems like Colossus is the strongest being in that universe. He even seems stronger than the Hulk.

 

[yahman]

I don't think so. Judging by the Ultimates books, it seems like Colossus is the strongest being in that universe. He even seems stronger than the Hulk.

Thats debatable, but the point is, if Bendis is going to make the crossover realistic and consitsent with the previous books (which he wont), no one in the ultimate universe will be even close to the strength level of Hyperion and co ....

 

[Muze]

Except, they'd probably be able to control Burbank better than Kyle, and Burbank is much more of an asset than Kyle ever could be.

now you're making the same mistake the squadreme supremeverse military has made. they've reiterated how 'irrelevant' Nighthawk is ever since finding out about him. most people (as in readers) would assume this to be because Nighthawk is a lot more dangerous than he's being given credit for. Burbank is great for coming up with ways to kill his fellow teammates. but can he lead? can he gain anyone's trust? is he trustworthy? Kyle at least cares about other people. if he made the squad and they were all in trouble, he wouldn't just bolt off to save his own butt.

We didn't see what happened. He may have just gotten the drop on them. It happens. Especially since they knew little about him in the first place.

they underestimated him and that's why he was extended the invite.

No. Both were instances of old fasioned detective work. Asking witnessess and following leads. He doesn't have superior inteligence than the entire United States government.

good old fashioned police work rarely finds a serial killer. and we're talking about an unusual serial killer. Kyle demonstrated the ability to think like a military tactician. and he was able to go places the military wouldn't. they damaged their relationship with Hyperion. Nighthawk, a complete anti-social personality, was able to talk Mark and Stanley into helping him.

Yes, he is highly inteligent in combat situations. But so are most of the Military's Generals. If they need tactics, they can call them.

or they can just have a soldier who can think like them, out there.

Thats debatable, but the point is, if Bendis is going to make the crossover realistic and consitsent with the previous books (which he wont), no one in the ultimate universe will be even close to the strength level of Hyperion and co ....

the physics of both worlds might be slightly different; just like how gravity was different on Krypton and Earth.

 

[gildea]

I don't think so. Judging by the Ultimates books, it seems like Colossus is the strongest being in that universe. He even seems stronger than the Hulk.

I would have said that up until the last issue of the ultimates where he was easily throwing about those massive robots.

 

[The Question]

No, he was described as having 'strength that can only be measured on the Richter scale .... not just free weights but the movement of Tectonic plates'

But that's not lifting tectonic plates. That's creating massive shockwaves. Something can be measures on the Richter scale without actually involving techtonic plates. Nuclear explosions are.

This was illustrated clearly in the last issue of the Supreme Power arc, when he causes an Earthquake measuring a 10.5 on the richter scale. Note that the earthquake that caused the tsunami disaster was less than an 9.

He went up into the upper atmosphere and slammed into the ground at full force. While his strength was a factor in that, as was his flight speed and invulnerability.

now you're making the same mistake the squadreme supremeverse military has made. they've reiterated how 'irrelevant' Nighthawk is ever since finding out about him. most people (as in readers) would assume this to be because Nighthawk is a lot more dangerous than he's being given credit for. Burbank is great for coming up with ways to kill his fellow teammates. but can he lead? can he gain anyone's trust? is he trustworthy? Kyle at least cares about other people. if he made the squad and they were all in trouble, he wouldn't just bolt off to save his own butt.

True. But my point is this: The military already has soldiers who fit that criteria and are vastly more loyal than Kyle would be.

they underestimated him and that's why he was extended the invite.

They under estimated him because they didn't know anything about him.

good old fashioned police work rarely finds a serial killer. and we're talking about an unusual serial killer. Kyle demonstrated the ability to think like a military tactician. and he was able to go places the military wouldn't. they damaged their relationship with Hyperion. Nighthawk, a complete anti-social personality, was able to talk Mark and Stanley into helping him.

That doesn't mean he has better inteligence than the entire United States government. The feds have satilites, hundreds of trained agents and spies, and a **** load of other tech. Nighthawk's a great detective and tactician, but the military can get other great detectives and tacticians who would be much more loyal to them.

or they can just have a soldier who can think like them, out there.

Which I'm sure they could also get without Kyle. Every general was in the field at one point.

 

[yahman]

the physics of both worlds might be slightly different; just like how gravity was different on Krypton and Earth.

Thats a complete and utter cop-out in my oppinion. And for Ultimate Thor to have the same the same level of strength as Hyperion the Ultimate Earth would literally have to have the gravity of a Super massive Black hole, which means the Supreme Power characters will literally have their atoms ripped apart.

 

[The Question]

Thats a complete and utter cop-out in my oppinion. And for Ultimate Thor to have the same the same level of strength as Hyperion the Ultimate Earth would literally have to have the gravity of a Super massive Black hole, which means the Supreme Power characters will literally have their atoms ripped apart.

Why?


Anyway, Thor's rarely shown many major feats in The Ultimates, simply because it's not what the story required. The ones he did preform didn't suggest he was weaker than Hyperion. They didn't suggest he was stronger either.

 

[fifthfiend]

Didn't Ult-Hulk basically singlehandedly destroy an entire fleet of technologically advanced alien warships? Hell, didn't he basically brush off an actual, outright nuclear weapon? I'd say that puts him easily on par with Hyperion, I mean that nuke they dropped on Hype left him pretty floored.

 

[yahman]

Why?


Anyway, Thor's rarely shown many major feats in The Ultimates, simply because it's not what the story required. The ones he did preform didn't suggest he was weaker than Hyperion. They didn't suggest he was stronger either.

What the hell are you talking about ? First you provide a ridiculous hypothesis on how Thor may be able to match up to Hyperions FAR superior strength (Which i have empirically proven), based on some obscure notion about different rules of physics (That have yet to be accounted for). When you realise what you've suggested is just plain ******ed, you go on to state the fallacy that there clear is empirical data that contradicts you’re previously made claim !!!!

'The ones he did preform didn't suggest he was weaker than Hyperion.'.

Oh yeah like the time he was getting beaten up by a character who could barely lift a submarine. As stated earlier, Submarines are litterally millions of times litghter than Tectonic plates.

 

[gildea]

Going solely on the comics hyperion is way ahead of the ultimate universe in raw power.

Only hulk may come close in durability but thats about it.

 

[CombatRock319]

i was kinda dissapointed. galactus = bada$$, squadron supreme = bad attempt at making fun of DC. thats not like cool? just pathetic (exempting the wicked cool doctor prism OF COURSE)