Drama USA_White Collar Series Thread

[Hunter Rider]

Alex has never done anything that didn't help her in some way. That's why I like her. If too many people from Neal's old live can just waltz into the new one, then the entire will he/won't he return to crime becomes silly.

There is no will he/wont he, only an idiot who'd never watched any TV ever would think Neal will end up going back, that would make it the dumbest arc ever written, it would in fact be a non-arc, and her helping out Neal in return for him helping her would most likely be part of the deal.

Oh you mean like Peter being ev... or Diana stealing the box on her own for nefario... oh wait.

Hell, even Fowler turned out to be a total wimp. Where's the loveable jerk that set up that jewel thief and had a judge in his pocket.

No, nothing like those things at all.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I still have my doubts if Kate is really dead. If she's not, and if she is working with Fowler's boss, then we need something that really makes Neal hate her. Otherwise he will continue to see what he wants to see (she's being blackmailed, she's being lied to, etc). If Kate is really a baddie, she needs to do something to make the audience and Neal hate her. Ordering Mozz's death could be just that.

I'm really not keen on dead not being dead in these type's of shows, this isn't the X Men or Buffy.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

There is no will he/wont he, only an idiot who'd never watched any TV ever would think Neal will end up going back, that would make it the dumbest arc ever written, it would in fact be a non-arc, and her helping out Neal in return for him helping her would most likely be part of the deal.

Bullshivik

I'm not saying he is obviously, but what happens at the end of four years? Neal's a grown 30ish man. He didn't join the FBI willingly cause he enjoyed the idea. Is Neal the white picket fence, 2.5 kids guy? I don't think so. Not yet.

I just don't see a humanitarian bone in Alex's sexy body. She had a get out jail free to Italy card and still didn't leave. She kept stealing.

No, nothing like those things at all.

Hey, prepare yourself for disappointment Jan 011 when the opening shot is Mozzie in a hospital bed in a coma with Neal and El at his bedside.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Bullshivik

I'm not saying he is obviously, but what happens at the end of four years? Neal's a grown 30ish man. He didn't join the FBI willingly cause he enjoyed the idea. Is Neal the white picket fence, 2.5 kids guy? I don't think so. Not yet.

It's not BS, Neal going back means 4 years of no developmewnt which clearly isn't the case.

Who says he has to be that? it's not like career criminal vs the all American Dream are the only options, lets face it he loves running a con and gets to do that regularly on the right side of the law with a stand up guy who has become his closest friend, no reason to think he wont throw in with Peter.

I just don't see a humanitarian bone in Alex's sexy body. She had a get out jail free to Italy card and still didn't leave. She kept stealing.

That's what will give her character an actual arc.

Hey, prepare yourself for disappointment Jan 011 when the opening shot is Mozzie in a hospital bed in a coma with Neal and El at his bedside.

That would be even worse, not only would he be incompetent but he's also a lousy shot. What you're suggesting is the show just keeps treading water, Dexter didn't get great by lacking balls.

 

[Matt]

I'm really not keen on dead not being dead in these type's of shows, this isn't the X Men or Buffy.

The thing is, we never really saw Kate die and we know she planned to bail and called someone. Faking her death is conceivable.

 

[Asgard]

Damn. Moz better not be dead.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

It's not BS, Neal going back means 4 years of no developmewnt which clearly isn't the case.

Who says he has to be that? it's not like career criminal vs the all American Dream are the only options, lets face it he loves running a con and gets to do that regularly on the right side of the law with a stand up guy who has become his closest friend, no reason to think he wont throw in with Peter..

Sure he'll stay will the FBI cause the show might continue past 4 seasons, but the point is that Neal has to have a life outside the FBI. Once the tracking anklet comes off, options will open up to him. So what kind of man will he be.

He does admire Peter's life.

That's what will give her character an actual arc..

No one on this show has an arc except Neal. Everyone else is just peeling back layers.

That would be even worse, not only would he be incompetent but he's also a lousy shot. What you're suggesting is the show just keeps treading water, Dexter didn't get great by lacking balls.

Dexter is no where in the range of WC. I don't see the comparison.

The thing is, we never really saw Kate die and we know she planned to bail and called someone. Faking her death is conceivable.

Nah, Kate's dead.

I'm trying to figure out how he blew up a bomb he didn't build though.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Sure he'll stay will the FBI cause the show might continue past 4 seasons, but the point is that Neal has to have a life outside the FBI. Once the tracking anklet comes off, options will open up to him. So what kind of man will he be.

He does admire Peter's life.

The point is Neal hasn't only got two choices as to what kind of man he can be after the 4 years, it's not "either become Peter 2.0 or go back to being a con man."

No one on this show has an arc except Neal. Everyone else is just peeling back layers.

No reason that can't change, but even if we go with your Shrek idea, Alex still has plenty of layer peeling to do.

Dexter is no where in the range of WC. I don't see the comparison.

Cute gif.

The comparison is that shows that make every character untouchable with no consequences grow stale very quickly, doesn't matter if they are as dark as Dexter or not, having the balls to progress rather than tread water applies to writng in general.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

The point is Neal hasn't only got two choices as to what kind of man he can be after the 4 years, it's not "either become Peter 2.0 or go back to being a con man."

My point was that Neal can be anything at the end of his 4 years. At some point, the series has to address it. He's helping the FBI, he's not an agent. They won't be able to threaten to put him in jail anymore. He may enjoy working with Peter, but that's not saying he wants to be in the FBI.

The comparison is that shows that make every character untouchable with no consequences grow stale very quickly, doesn't matter if they are as dark as Dexter or not, having the balls to progress rather than tread water applies to writng in general.

Monk and Psych have done exactly that. Characters came and went but the dynamics progressed very lttle.

Heck, they wrote that Lauren agent out without any explaination.

 

[Hunter Rider]

My point was that Neal can be anything at the end of his 4 years. At some point, the series has to address it. He's helping the FBI, he's not an agent. They won't be able to threaten to put him in jail anymore. He may enjoy working with Peter, but that's not saying he wants to be in the FBI.

I never said he has to do anything specifically, I said there is no will he/wont he as far as him going back to crime goes or that would defeat the entire arc.

Monk and Psych have done exactly that. Characters came and went but the dynamics progressed very lttle.

Heck, they wrote that Lauren agent out without any explaination.

I don't like Psych so I can't comment and I ditched Monk as soon as Sharona left but I've not heard much good about the latter seasons from Matt.

The thing with White Collar is other than Neal and Peter the show can afford to lose any character.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I never said he has to do anything specifically, I said there is no will he/wont he as far as him going back to crime goes or that would defeat the entire arc.

I know he won't, but the show has to address the possiblity. It's not like there's no such thing as repeat offenders.

I don't like Psych so I can't comment and I ditched Monk as soon as Sharona left but I've not heard much good about the latter seasons from Matt.

The thing with White Collar is other than Neal and Peter the show can afford to lose any character.

I'm pretty sure Thiessen is safe. Diana and Jones are expendable. Mozzie is a well, but he's role isn't something you can just slide another person like Alex or Sara into. Like what Matt would say about Sharona.

Alex, isn't funny. She doesn't have the same history with Neal that Mozzie does. Shows like this depend greatly on the character chemistry. Not like NCIS or the Mentalist.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I'm pretty sure Thiessen is safe. Diana and Jones are expendable. Mozzie is a well, but he's role isn't something you can just slide another person like Alex or Sara into. Like what Matt would say about Sharona.

Alex, isn't funny. She doesn't have the same history with Neal that Mozzie does. Shows like this depend greatly on the character chemistry. Not like NCIS or the Mentalist.

When replacing a character like Mozzie the key is to not try and replicate him, with Alex the dynamic would be very different with her as a female Neal but with less scruples, however she is drawn to him, so there's plenty to work with and they have chemistry.

Agreed on The Mentalist as the focus is on how each character plays off Jane's oddness, but NCIS is very much about the character chemistry IMO.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

When replacing a character like Mozzie the key is to not try and replicate him, with Alex the dynamic would be very different with her as a female Neal but with less scruples, however she is drawn to him, so there's plenty to work with and they have chemistry.

And that's why I don't think it would work. How long can Peter allow Alex to hang around? For all of Mozzie's quirks, he had reservations about Kate as well. He's a calming influence to Neal.

Alex represents exactly what you're saying it doesn't need to do. Backsliding to the con side.

She works in small doses cause she is just another Neal. Not as a regular.

Agreed on The Mentalist as the focus is on how each character plays off Jane's oddness, but NCIS is very much about the character chemistry IMO.

At this point, the only people left from the original pilot are Dinozzo, Abby, Ducky and Gibbs. Everyone else has been switched out or added. That kills most shows. The show could probably survive without Gibbs if Dinozzo takes over.

 

[Hunter Rider]

And that's why I don't think it would work. How long can Peter allow Alex to hang around? For all of Mozzie's quirks, he had reservations about Kate as well. He's a calming influence to Neal.

Alex represents exactly what you're saying it doesn't need to do. Backsliding to the con side.

She works in small doses cause she is just another Neal. Not as a regular.

It's not a case of sliding backwards, more a case of working closer to the edge to get his goals, it provides Neal with a situation that lacks the safety net that Mozzie was.

Alex as a regular would be a good move twofold, the show could do with upping the sexy quota and Neal could really use a different dynamic in his life instead of one where he is always the sneakiest guy in the room.

At this point, the only people left from the original pilot are Dinozzo, Abby, Ducky and Gibbs. Everyone else has been switched out or added. That kills most shows. The show could probably survive without Gibbs if Dinozzo takes over.

The 4 agents plus Abbs and Ducky are the corner stones, for 5 seasons now those relationships have been integral to the shows popularity.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

It's not a case of sliding backwards, more a case of working closer to the edge to get his goals, it provides Neal with a situation that lacks the safety net that Mozzie was.

Alex as a regular would be a good move twofold, the show could do with upping the sexy quota and Neal could really use a different dynamic in his life instead of one where he is always the sneakiest guy in the room.

I guess this just comes down to us seeing Alex differently. She's pretty and all but her character is way too strong to be a sidekick doing leg work. I hated how they brought her back in CopyCat Caffrey by weakening her. She suddenly is so inept she couldn't sneak across the boarder to safety?

She's like the Black Cat to Spiderman. You love her in small doses but as a regular, you'd quickly tire of her.

The show is more in need of a normal(sexy)female who has no idea who Neal is and has no history with him.

The 4 agents plus Abbs and Ducky are the corner stones, for 5 seasons now those relationships have been integral to the shows popularity.

I didn't think Ziva would work but she did. Weird, I thought the probie came in early in season 2.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I guess this just comes down to us seeing Alex differently. She's pretty and all but her character is way too strong to be a sidekick doing leg work. I hated how they brought her back in CopyCat Caffrey by weakening her. She suddenly is so inept she couldn't sneak across the boarder to safety?

That was more about showing that these people were extremely powerful than weakening her, plus she wouldn't be a side kick, Mozzie is a sidekick, Alex would provide a very different dynamic.

The show is more in need of a normal(sexy)female who has no idea who Neal is and has no history with him.

With his ankle bracelet that wouldn't happen, plus we don't want some loved up chick swooning over Neal and giving us romantic subplots, the beauty of Alex is she can give Neal that love interest while still being a character in the same game, so it would be entangled with the plots.

I didn't think Ziva would work but she did. Weird, I thought the probie came in early in season 2.

I love Ziva! but yeah it was a ballsy switch. I'm not sure, in truth I only started to watch it regularly around the episode where Kate was killed, so not sure when McGhee came in exactly.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

That was more about showing that these people were extremely powerful than weakening her, plus she wouldn't be a side kick, Mozzie is a sidekick, Alex would provide a very different dynamic.

I didn't see it that way. Came across like her "friends" abandoned her and she came with her tail between her legs to Mozzie for money. Whereas Neal always seems to have an unlimited supply. "Right"

With his ankle bracelet that wouldn't happen, plus we don't want some loved up chick swooning over Neal and giving us romantic subplots, the beauty of Alex is she can give Neal that love interest while still being a character in the same game, so it would be entangled with the plots.

Actually, I saw it more like the chick in Mozzie's ep. A woman who Neal enjoyed hanging with cause she didn't see him as anything but Neal. So he tried to keep her from learning about his past.

No swooning and fainting.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm about 90% certain Neal and Peter will show up and rouse Mozzie in the first scene of the next episode. Mozzie's too good to off and USA's shows tend to have pretty stable casts.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Season 2.5 premiere is January 18th(Tuesday at 10pmEt)
http://www.tvsquad.com/2010/10/08/usa-announces-winter-premiere-dates-for-royal-pains-white-co/

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Season 2.5 promos(spoilers obviously)

[YT]JiARIEDTb7U[/YT]

[YT]vGSWC0XqrPA[/YT]

 

[Matt]

Guess its safe to say that Mozzie lives. We don't know how much time passed between the scene at Neal's apartment and his shooting. I'm guessing that Peter got in touch with him and slapped a vest on him.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Everything is back to being breezy.

 

[Matt]

Execution is key. If handled well it wouldn't be too bad.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Everything is back to being breezy.

Told ya!

Probably just say he barely missed the heart and was thankfully rushed to a nearby hospital.

 

[Trainwreck2100]

Told ya!

Probably just say he barely missed the heart and was thankfully rushed to a nearby hospital.

Spoiler

that second promo looks like they conned the shooter, it looks like its in the park so im gonna go with hes wearing a vest