The Dark Knight Visiting his parents grave.

[spiderwear]

I did a search and found no threads on this so, here it goes.

One thing that I think was missed in the first flick was Bruce visiting his parents grave and making his oath to them.

The second film is too late to have him make the oath, even if it was done in a flashback everyone would say "that never happend in the first movie". But I think they should have him visit their site atleast once. Plus having Ra's tied into his parents murder, in that he created the "desperate times" that made Chill kill the Waynes, he would feel that he somewhat avenged them and give him reason to go to their grave site.

What do you think?

 

[Rynan]

Bruce was denied vengence when Chill was killed and even though Ra's caused the depression, he had little really to do with the Wayne's death, so no vengence can be found in his death.

It's no longer a quest for revenge. It's a quest for Justice.


Also, he would go to their graves to honor them and to remember, not decalare them avenged.

The war is not over.

 

[spiderwear]

Izzy, yes it was allready mentioned and that's why I thought it could be used as a reason to go to their grave sites..

Rynan, Okay so my idea to get him there with the whole vengence thing is a wash...But what I was mainly talking about was the lack of him visiting their graves and making the oath, or just visiting the graves since it's too late for the oath...Also a visit to crime alley to put some roses couln't hurt either.

I guess my point is that this was left out of the first and I'd like to see it in the new one.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Him visting his parents grave should be the opening scene.

 

[Shedhut]

I think they could work it in before he moves on to the showdown in the sequel like he dont know if he will survive and visits their grave to reassure if he is really doing the right thing with bein Batman and grow his inner power.
Hope what I tried to say got clear

 

[Steelsheen]

yeah this would be nice, seeing the Wayne tombstones. they could show it at any part of the film, just make sure its done right (and i mean no tear jerker drama just for the sake of having one).


on a lighter note, with Bruce talking to his parents, do you think he'll ever mention that the manor burned down?

 

[raybia]

Him visting his parents grave should be the opening scene.

I could go for this. But should it be Bruce or Batman at the grave?

And if this is the opening scene then what should be the following sequence that it sets up?

I really think that the movie should open up with a Bond/M:III type sequence.

 

[lujho]

Since when does someone need a reason to visit their parents graves? They can just do it. And I mean that cinematically as well as in real life. You don't need a reason to put him there - though simply the anniversary of theire deaths, or the anniversary of becoming Batman, would do.

I think it would be a little less interesting in this franchise though, with the Waynes being buried in the grounds rather than a public cemetary.

 

[AnimeJune]

Bruce was denied vengence when Chill was killed and even though Ra's caused the depression, he had little really to do with the Wayne's death, so no vengence can be found in his death.

It's no longer a quest for revenge. It's a quest for Justice.


Also, he would go to their graves to honor them and to remember, not decalare them avenged.

The war is not over.

Agreed.

Plus, isn't the oath a little redundant? The whole movie was a version of Batman's oath - the entire theme was Bruce Wayne becoming an icon of terror. Having the oath, to me, would have been needless, ham-handed, melodramatic, and repetitive.

 

[spiderwear]

Agreed.

Plus, isn't the oath a little redundant? The whole movie was a version of Batman's oath - the entire theme was Bruce Wayne becoming an icon of terror. Having the oath, to me, would have been needless, ham-handed, melodramatic, and repetitive.

Well this is more about him just visiting the grave, not really the oath, though it would have been nice in Begins.

But since you bring it up. Isn't that like saying Spider-Man could have done without "with great power comes great responceability"? That's his oath that Ben gave him and even though the whole movie was him living up to that oath they still put it in. Batman comics are basicly him living to fullfill that oath but it is still brought up all the time.

As far as being redundant or repetitive how about the whole Fear theme. That was shoved into every seen that it could be, and was more repetitive than the oath would have ever been.

But again that's in the past and it's too late to use it. But I do think that having him go to the grave and Crime Alley would be cool.

 

[raybia]

Since when does someone need a reason to visit their parents graves? They can just do it. And I mean that cinematically as well as in real life. You don't need a reason to put him there - though simply the anniversary of theire deaths, or the anniversary of becoming Batman, would do.

I think it would be a little less interesting in this franchise though, with the Waynes being buried in the grounds rather than a public cemetary.

In real life? Never.

In a movie? If you just randomly stick this scene in the beginning, middle or end without any type of context, it would just would appear odd and o.

We, as fans, know why he's visiting the grave but I think something needs to happen to lead up to this scene or something needs to happen during this scene.

 

[BatScot]

There were several points of dialog in Begins that were ‘melodramatic, and repetitive’; “theatricality and deception”, “mind your surroundings”, “why do we fall”… OK, we get it already, and an ‘oath’ (which would not necessarily need to be verbalized) would not have seemed out of place or character. Frankly, not having the graveside scene in Begins was a missed opportunity… how difficult would it have really been to have written such a scene into Begins? The problem is that Nolan and Goyer wanted the “I’m Batman” scene, but why not do something different and introduce Batman to the audience at the grave of his parents? And if the theme of Begins is the ‘oath’, then the result of that is Wayne becoming Batman, but is it any less redundant for him to swear an oath than to announce who he is? His totem may be a bat, and that may be the symbol by which he is known and referred to on the streets but it’s really quite silly that he would call himself Batman. Anyway, this whole notion of a graveside scene being difficult to ‘fit in’ is simply a matter of execution and I suspect a good writer could have handled such a problem quite easily.

 

[spiderwear]

There were several points of dialog in Begins that were ‘melodramatic, and repetitive’; “theatricality and deception”, “mind your surroundings”, “why do we fall”… OK, we get it already, and an ‘oath’ (which would not necessarily need to be verbalized) would not have seemed out of place or character. Frankly, not having the graveside scene in Begins was a missed opportunity… how difficult would it have really been to have written such a scene into Begins? The problem is that Nolan and Goyer wanted the “I’m Batman” scene, but why not do something different and introduce Batman to the audience at the grave of his parents? And if the theme of Begins is the ‘oath’, then the result of that is Wayne becoming Batman, but is it any less redundant for him to swear an oath than to announce who he is? His totem may be a bat, and that may be the symbol by which he is known and referred to on the streets but it’s really quite silly that he would call himself Batman. Anyway, this whole notion of a graveside scene being difficult to ‘fit in’ is simply a matter of execution and I suspect a good writer could have handled such a problem quite easily.

You know I really like that idea. If he were to have made the Batman announcement at the grave it could have turned out real cool if they did it rite. Plus it would have taken it out of the B89 shadow. Go strait from that to him suiting up and going after Falcone.

I don't want to go OT here but what the heck. As far as the oath goes, in begins it seems that his mission is to make sure the people of Gotham realize that (I forget his line on the plane exactly) they don't have to live under the repression of bad guys and crooked politics. His oath, I believe in the comics, is that noone will ever suffer like he did.

Because of that, I don't think the oath would have been repetative at all.

 

[Nightwing1977]

I don't mind if they ever do the scene of Bruce visiting his parents's grave. They did in MOTP, so why not do this for BB 2 as well?

 

[Whack Arnolds]

For all the BEGINS haters that say everything is explained, ad-nauseum... Bruce pretty much re-iterates his oath to his parents on the plane ride back from Buhtan. He spit balls it for about 5 minutes with Alfred on the plane headed back to Gotham. Did you guys miss the scene? Although, I do agree an opening Batman scene of him at his parents grave at night would've been extremely cool and unique. Maybe they thought the audience would be under whelmed with Batman's first appearance being as such. I certainly would've dug it, as I thought the teaser trailer was out of this world, and that scene of Batman at his parents grave could've very much mirrored that dark monologue from the teaser trailer.

 

[AnimeJune]

For all the BEGINS haters that say everything is explained, ad-nauseum... Bruce pretty much re-iterates his oath to his parents on the plane ride back from Buhtan. He spit balls it for about 5 minutes with Alfred on the plane headed back to Gotham. Did you guys miss the scene? Although, I do agree an opening Batman scene of him at his parents grave at night would've been extremely cool and unique. Maybe they thought the audience would be under whelmed with Batman's first appearance being as such. I certainly would've dug it, as I thought the teaser trailer was out of this world, and that scene of Batman at his parents grave could've very much mirrored that dark monologue from the teaser trailer.

I'm not saying showing Batman at his parents' grave would be a bad scene, I'm just saying it's not necessary. They were really hamfisted about it in the first Batman. The scene where he drops the roses on the concrete? That scene came out of nowhere. Or think about in Batman Forever, where Bruce has the repeated dreams about his parents' death? The concept of Bruce remembering his parents' death and going to their graves has been DONE already.

I'm just saying, that in a movie that had not one, not two, but FOUR villains, and several overlapping themes and backstory, Nolan couldn't have included everything without upsetting the balance of Batman Begins. The "oath" scene wasn't necessary, so they cut it, and I don't think it harmed the movie one little bit.

And Spiderwear, look up in the dictionary what an "oath" is. "With great power, comes great responsibility" is not an oath, not for Spider-Man. It's a mantra. It doesn't promise anything, but repeated, it encourages Spider-Man towards his job. It's not an oath.

 

[Whack Arnolds]

I'm not saying different. It could've been cool seeing him visit his parents grave AS Batman, then making the oath... but the oath is made and explained on the plane ride. So there is no real need for it.

 

[spiderwear]

And Spiderwear, look up in the dictionary what an "oath" is. "With great power, comes great responsibility" is not an oath, not for Spider-Man. It's a mantra. It doesn't promise anything, but repeated, it encourages Spider-Man towards his job. It's not an oath.

True but not my point. My point was this...You said that it was not needed because he spends the movie acting on his promise to his parents so the words aren't needed...

Okay let me reword it....Batman is Batman because of what happend to his parents. Spider-man is Spider-man because of what happend to Ben. Now they didn't have to use the "Mantra" in Spider-man becsause he spent the movie acting on his feelings from what happend to Ben..But they did use it because it's part of the core history just like Bruces' parents death is.

Now with that being said, I'm not bashing the fact that it wasn't in there. I'm just saying I think it would be cool to have him at the graves to show that he is still mourning their loss and that his objectives are in responce to their death and not so much to "show the people of Gotham".

Point blank...I'd just like to see him at their graves.

 

[spiderwear]

For all the BEGINS haters that say everything is explained, ad-nauseum... Bruce pretty much re-iterates his oath to his parents on the plane ride back from Buhtan. He spit balls it for about 5 minutes with Alfred on the plane headed back to Gotham. Did you guys miss the scene? Although, I do agree an opening Batman scene of him at his parents grave at night would've been extremely cool and unique. Maybe they thought the audience would be under whelmed with Batman's first appearance being as such. I certainly would've dug it, as I thought the teaser trailer was out of this world, and that scene of Batman at his parents grave could've very much mirrored that dark monologue from the teaser trailer.

Yeah he did do alot of talking on the plane. But that seemed to be more about "the people of Gotham" than doing it for his parents.

That said, Begins rocked for the most part IMO. I just think a grave scene would be cool. Not needed per say, just cool.

 

[BatScot]

All you would have needed is a shot with the boy Wayne crouched alone beside the grave following his parent’s burial, and since the burial scene already exists in the film, 10 seconds is all that would have been needed to plant the seed. Then later in the film you begin Batman's first night graveside; at first all you notice is the grave, then something dark rises and disappears and off to the docks we go. Now you’ve added a bit more mystery and left intact the over-whelming "I'm Batman" scene… that’s 20-30 seconds of film and no dialog or grand explanation needed… add those scenes, cut the kid from the Narrows, or “I gotta get me one of those”, or some Rachel fluff and you flat out have a better film.

… and another thing—there should have been a shot of young Wayne’s eyes burning into Joe Chill.

… and those same eyes burning into his parents grave.

… and not a word spoken!

 

[Kritish]

As long as he does it at night in Bat uniform.

 

[Whack Arnolds]

All you would have needed is a shot with the boy Wayne crouched alone beside the grave following his parent’s burial, and since the burial scene already exists in the film, 10 seconds is all that would have been needed to plant the seed. Then later in the film you begin Batman's first night graveside; at first all you notice is the grave, then something dark rises and disappears and off to the docks we go. Now you’ve added a bit more mystery and left intact the over-whelming "I'm Batman" scene… that’s 20-30 seconds of film and no dialog or grand explanation needed… add those scenes, cut the kid from the Narrows, or “I gotta get me one of those”, or some Rachel fluff and you flat out have a better film.

… and another thing—there should have been a shot of young Wayne’s eyes burning into Joe Chill.

… and those same eyes burning into his parents grave.

… and not a word spoken!

Warner Brothers... why is BatScot not on the payroll and put in charge instead of Christopher Nolan?

On a sidenote, I thought I saw plenty of fire in Bruce's eyes while looking at Chill. In the hallway before he gets shot, and in the courtroom where he is staring so hard and is so furious...tears are building up in his eyes.

 

[AnimeJune]

All you would have needed is a shot with the boy Wayne crouched alone beside the grave following his parent’s burial, and since the burial scene already exists in the film, 10 seconds is all that would have been needed to plant the seed. Then later in the film you begin Batman's first night graveside; at first all you notice is the grave, then something dark rises and disappears and off to the docks we go. Now you’ve added a bit more mystery and left intact the over-whelming "I'm Batman" scene… that’s 20-30 seconds of film and no dialog or grand explanation needed… add those scenes, cut the kid from the Narrows, or “I gotta get me one of those”, or some Rachel fluff and you flat out have a better film.

… and another thing—there should have been a shot of young Wayne’s eyes burning into Joe Chill.

… and those same eyes burning into his parents grave.

… and not a word spoken!

I like the balance Christopher Nolan struck with the Batman Begins film. He was going for seriousness and realism. Sure, thirty seconds could have made one scene - but what would that scene have contributed to the film? Nothing - we already know he misses his parents. We already know he's fighting as Batman because of the deaths of his parents. We already know he hates Joe Chill and wanted to kill him.

It's called economy - why waste the money on a new set and props and costumes and time and film for a 30 second scene that's not necessary? It was already established throughout the film, instead of at just one point. I think Batman standing over his parents' graves, being all like "I will....AVENGE YOU!" *clenches fist* *tear drops out of mask* would be rather silly.

Films need to be streamlined and organized. If you don't need it, it shouldn't be there.

 

[spiderwear]

I see what you're saying Anime but would that grave scen have been any more silly than the kid scene? " They won't beleive me". That was also a waiste if you ask me and was totally useless. We allready know that Batman is a nice guy at his core, so why did they have to show it?

 

[Dark Knight]

it would be good to see Bruce visit his parents grave near the Manor...perhaps towards the end of the film....