The Dark Knight Visiting his parents grave.

[Isildur´s Heir]

I'm not saying leaving out the "Batman at his parent's grave scene" was a good choice, because judging from the reactions on this board - it's entirely subjective and based on a fan's personal opinion. I personally didn't mind. I wouldn't have minded if it was in the movie, but I wasn't pissing blood when it wasn't put in. I'm saying that perhaps Nolan already felt he was getting his point across to the general audience and needed the rest of the time to show more of Batman's character. It was pretty obvious throughout the movie that the murder of Bruce's parents was integral to him becoming a superhero.

But, the point is, it was important to show it, it defines who Batman is.
Who are the most important persons to Bruce Wayne? Why did he put on the cowl? Why did he put Bruce Wayne´s life on hold, and became Batman 24/7?
It´s all about his parents.
Not only was that badly addressed in the movie (that´s the truth), but, the first thing Bruce Wayne should have done when he arrived to Gotham was the visit his parents grave, because it was for them that he returned.
It´s only natural, and it´s something that should have been shown, not only hope that the audience got that.
That´s was one the misses by Nolan and one of the flaws in the Dark Knight´s portrayal in the movie.

He was alone in the dark of the night, there was no stars above, rain fell down, washing aways his fears. Bruce Wayne closed his eyes, looked up and let the rain wash his face. Alfred was outside, near the car, holding an umbrella. Bruce looked in front, to his parents grave: Martha Wayne, beloved mother; Thomas Wayne, beloved father. He placed two flores on top of each tombstone, a red rose, which means love, and a Rosemary, which means remembrance.
He talks..
- Mother, Father....i´m back....like i said i would!

That´s a bit of the script i´m writing

 

[AnimeJune]

But, the point is, it was important to show it, it defines who Batman is.
Who are the most important persons to Bruce Wayne? Why did he put on the cowl? Why did he put Bruce Wayne´s life on hold, and became Batman 24/7?
It´s all about his parents.
Not only was that badly addressed in the movie (that´s the truth), but, the first thing Bruce Wayne should have done when he arrived to Gotham was the visit his parents grave, because it was for them that he returned.
It´s only natural, and it´s something that should have been shown, not only hope that the audience got that.
That´s was one the misses by Nolan and one of the flaws in the Dark Knight´s portrayal in the movie.


That´s a bit of the script i´m writing

Okay, I'm just not going to even comment on your script, because evidently it's a first draft and something that you're still working on.

But let me address what you've mentioned in your post. The whole "why do we fall?" helped show the importance of Batman's parents, and remained a constant theme. The Gotham train showed at the beginning the importance of Batman's parents, and remained a symbol of them throughout the entire movie. The entire child scene where little Bruce says he loves them was obvious. Bruce's entire demeanor regarding Joe Chill's trial, and how that was the reason he dropped out of Princeton - and bringing his gun to the trial. Obvious again. The dramatically ironic comment of the boardmember to a falsely-drunken Bruce saying "The apple has fallen far from the tree" was another reminder.

Just because it wasn't said directly, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Nolan wasn't going to dumb it down for the audience or bash them over the head with it. I don't read the Batman comics, myself, and I got the point perfectly.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Okay, I'm just not going to even comment on your script, because evidently it's a first draft and something that you're still working on.

It´s not even a first draft, because i haven´t really wrote that scene on paper only in my head, so, what i wrote here is something i came up in seconds.
But, hey, feel free to comment if you want to ;

But let me address what you've mentioned in your post. The whole "why do we fall?" helped show the importance of Batman's parents, and remained a constant theme. The Gotham train showed at the beginning the importance of Batman's parents, and remained a symbol of them throughout the entire movie. The entire child scene where little Bruce says he loves them was obvious. Bruce's entire demeanor regarding Joe Chill's trial, and how that was the reason he dropped out of Princeton - and bringing his gun to the trial. Obvious again. The dramatically ironic comment of the boardmember to a falsely-drunken Bruce saying "The apple has fallen far from the tree" was another reminder.

I´m glad you got all of it, but i still think that it wasn´t that well addressed in the movie.
So, let´s see...

"why do we fall?", is not something of his parents, because Alfred say it too. That line repressents that Bruce picked himself up after so many tribulations in his life.
The all train thing and the "The apple has fallen far from the tree" line, shows how his parents were important to GOTHAM, not to Bruce.
The all Joe Chill´s trail shows that, yes, their death affected Bruce and that it made him reckless (for lack of better word), but it doesn´t show that, it was their death that made him create Batman.
In the movie is stated that Batman is a theatrical figure that Bruce created to help him in his fight; when Batman is the creation of a child as a response to the lost his parents when he needed them the most.
That is why it´s a gigantic flaw to change the Mark of Zorro with Faust (and that is just one of many).
There are bit and piece throughout the film, but i think it lacked one important and definitive moment.

 

[the_freshdude]

what about these two pictures, or do you still prefer him when he's in the suit

 

[spiderwear]

That's pretty much how I would like to see it. A cool, dark, rainy day. Not sure if I would want him wearing dark glasses though. I think I'd like to see the pain and frustration in his eyes.

Though being in the Batsuit would be cool also. He could approach the grave and take off his cowl as if to say this is what I've become, but I'm still your son first. Since the graves are on his property he wouldn't have to worry about anyone seeing him remove the cowl.

 

[Two-Face]

what about these two pictures, or do you still prefer him when he's in the suit

Either way is fine but rather I see Bruce Wayne visiting his parents grave.

 

[TheGrayGhost]

what about these two pictures, or do you still prefer him when he's in the suit

Can you please tell me where those photos are from? They look like Bruce Timm models, but I've never seen those two shots in any of the episodes or movies. It's close to MOTP, but the shape of the grave and the addition of sunglasses are different from MOTP.

 

[Nightwing1977]

Can you please tell me where those photos are from? They look like Bruce Timm models, but I've never seen those two shots in any of the episodes or movies. It's close to MOTP, but the shape of the grave and the addition of sunglasses are different from MOTP.

It's got to be from MOTP. I swore the graves does look like that. And the sky is very black & look more like movie type than cartoon. But hey, it been so long since I seen BTAS.

 

[lujho]

The properties of the pictures say it's from the episode Nothing To Fear.

 

[the_freshdude]

yeah go to wf.toonzone.net you'll find it

 

[Doc Holliday]

The properties of the pictures say it's from the episode Nothing To Fear.

Well aren't you just Mr. Resourceful. I wouldn't have thought of that.

 

[AnimeJune]

Either way is fine but rather I see Bruce Wayne visiting his parents grave.

Nothing wrong with it.

I just don't see Batman Begins as worse off without the scene. I mean, when did Batman first appear in comics? He's been a cultural icon for how many years? It's a little more complex then just one event that can be portrayed numerous ways in film.

 

[Nightwing92]

why would someone want to see batman visiting his parents grave.... thats bruce wayne's darker alter ego..... bruce wayne should be visiting them

 

[Azrael23]

Forgive my exaggerated generalization, but I think everyone has forgotten that not every scene has to have action in it or drive the story forward. Character development, anyone? Show him care for his parents. Perhaps a short interlude about the promise he has made them, and the city, then showing him beside the grave, having him say something about not letting them down, whereafter he returns to his car where Alfred is waiting for him.

There wasn't enough character development in the film for you? Wayne
doesn't even become Batman until an hour into the film, so character-wise
Wayne was pretty much well developed. Personally I would love a grave
scene myself and perhaps Nolan will include one in future films, but it doesn't exactly have to be in the first installment when we pretty much get the point in why he is Batman. A grave scene in future films would be a nice reminder though.

Yes, Bruce should have visited his parents grave´s in the first movie, the moment he returned to Gotham.
Why?
Because he does that for them, in their memory.
To change that is to change who he is.

But that is just one of the flaws about their portrait of the Dark Knight.
Not to bash the movie, because it´s a great piece of work, but it´s not the masterpiece that everyone likes to think it is.

What you fail to understand is, its not a flaw. To say its flawed because it
didn't contain a particular scene is deluted and if you expect everything in the Batman mythos to make it to film then you will be very dissapointed.
You should lower your expactation because not every if any movie will be masterpieces, but to say BB is flawed because of it lacked one particular scene which could possibly be in future films is to fanboyish.

What portrait of Batman will meet your approval? I'm sure as the series progress Nolan will add to Batman, but I'm not expecting him to encompass
everything in one film.

 

[xwolverine2]

too spiderman-ish

 

[Savior]

I would see it as more of an impact if people saw Batman visiting the site where his parents were killed. Not Bruce Wayne visiting their tombstones.

It was done in the first Batman movie, and I think it sent out a stronger message. That as Bruce or Batman, he'll never let himself forget what he's fighting for.

Let's not forget who Batman is. He's very emotional yes, but his feelings are pent up inside him, only to be let loose on the people who do injustice. He's not the type to show love and/or compassion for anyone or anything. Not with words atleast.

So if anything, here's hoping for a Batman visiting the site in his suit. No dialog needed. Even better if he lays two roses down (ala Batman 1). Anything else, or too teary eyed is just over doing it. For Batmans character atleast.

 

[Azrael23]

I would see it as more of an impact if people saw Batman visiting the site where his parents were killed. Not Bruce Wayne visiting their tombstones.

It was done in the first Batman movie, and I think it sent out a stronger message. That as Bruce or Batman, he'll never let himself forget what he's fighting for.

Let's not forget who Batman is. He's very emotional yes, but his feelings are pent up inside him, only to be let loose on the people who do injustice. He's not the type to show love and/or compassion for anyone or anything. Not with words atleast.

So if anything, here's hoping for a Batman visiting the site in his suit. No dialog needed. Even better if he lays two roses down (ala Batman 1). Anything else, or too teary eyed is just over doing it. For Batmans character atleast.

Are you referring to Batman 89? because there was never a grave scene
in none of the 4 previous Batfilms, aside from Wayne placing the two roses
down in the alley scene in B89

A great opening scene in the BB sequel should be Batman standing over his parents grave just as a reminder, would be a great touch

 

[Beelze]

There wasn't enough character development in the film for you?

Not as much as I would've wanted, but far, far from bad. Better than all the action movies I've seen in a good time in that respect.

Anyway, once again I'll say that I would really like an introductory scene with Bruce in front of his parents' graves, where he promises to not let them or the people of Gotham down. I thought it was powerful stuff when Bruce said, "I made a vow", in MOTP... so an entire scene at the beginning would get me right into the Batman mood.

 

[Savior]

Are you referring to Batman 89? because there was never a grave scene
in none of the 4 previous Batfilms, aside from Wayne placing the two roses
down in the alley scene in B89

A great opening scene in the BB sequel should be Batman standing over his parents grave just as a reminder, would be a great touch

Yes, the 89 film. And I never said there was a grave scene in that film. I was specifically talking about the roses in the alley scene.

That alone was a strong scene, and I think could be done better... that's if they put a scene like that at all in the next movies.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Yes, the 89 film. And I never said there was a grave scene in that film. I was specifically talking about the roses in the alley scene.

That alone was a strong scene, and I think could be done better... that's if they put a scene like that at all in the next movies.

No, we don't want to do it in all the next movies, that would kill it.

I like the idea of it being the opening scene of the sequel, but if we do it in every film, it will get old and cheesy.

 

[Katsuro]

No, we don't want to do it in all the next movies, that would kill it.

I like the idea of it being the opening scene of the sequel, but if we do it in every film, it will get old and cheesy.

He didn't say in all the movies. Read the quote again.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Oh, oops.

You didn't see that post. These are not the droids you're looking for.

 

[BatScot]

 

[diagonbruce]

This is one scene I really hope will be included in TDk if not Im not gonna shoot myself over it.

 

[cryptic name]

I did a search and found no threads on this so, here it goes.

One thing that I think was missed in the first flick was Bruce visiting his parents grave and making his oath to them.

The second film is too late to have him make the oath, even if it was done in a flashback everyone would say "that never happend in the first movie". But I think they should have him visit their site atleast once. Plus having Ra's tied into his parents murder, in that he created the "desperate times" that made Chill kill the Waynes, he would feel that he somewhat avenged them and give him reason to go to their grave site.

What do you think?

visiting his parents grave is a must. it's such a strong visual image and it encompasses everything important about batman. maybe even visiting the spot in crime alley where his parents were killed, that was extremely well done in burton's batman