Homecoming Was the 2012 reboot pointless?

[spider-neil]

Kingsley was so good in the movie before the reveal though. That's what pissed me off the most.

They turned the main villain into a joke (for a punchline) and revealed the secondary villain into the main villain when I wasn't engaged by his character at all. Mandarin (Kingsly) was instantly quotable the only line I remember Killian saying is 'I AM MANDARIN' and I only remember it because it pissed me off so much.

 

[The Joker]

That's what bothered me most about that whole twist. I don't give a crap what status level of villain The Mandarin is in Iron Man's rogues gallery because I know for sure he is not a big respected villain in overall comic book lore (he's no Joker, Doc Ock, Green Goblin, Dr. Doom, Lex Luthor etc or even close to them). My problem is IM3 set up Mandarin to look like this bad ass terrorist who delivers creepy threat messages on TV, who dresses like some warped monk, who has a regime of fanatical followers (including kids) who who kiss his hands, he burns effigys of the president, who threatened to murder company executives on TV etc.

That was a much more intriguing creepy villain than Killian. Plus he was played by SIR BEN KINGSLEY, one of the best actors of our time, who was really showing his acting chops as a terrorist villain in those video scenes. Then it all turns out to be a joke. Granted I thought Kingsley was hilarious as Trevor. The man is so versatile in any role he does. But I'd have gladly sacrificed those laughs for an awesome villain.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Personally, I loved the Mandarin twist. While they could have improved it by making Killian a more charismatic, quotable villain, I think it worked very well. Killian had quite possibly THE smartest superhero villain scheme ever.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

No, I am saying Mandarin back in the Silver Age, was pretty well a racist stereotype and that has always marred the character's legacy, Shane Black called comic book Mandarin a racist stereotype.

I also am hard pressed to find Mandarin compelling in general, if I am welling to overlook his unfortunate origins, because each writer gives him a different personality, I have no idea what his deal is. Its hard for Mandarin to be an effective arch nemesis, when the writers seem have no clue who he is, how does he contrast with Tony Stark, if he keeps on changing all the time?

Okay. They could've pulled all the right things about the character's heritage and left the stereotypes aside. I didn't like that bane in dkr was not Hispanic at all, I thought that was inconsiderate of Nolan to have ignored. Idc if people wouldn't have taken him as seriously with a Hispanic accent; frankly that's small scale racism. But it wasn't as bad as the mandarin twist.

 

[HarryOsborn]

Seriously. "Fathers leave, no need to be a ***** about it"? The fact that a billionaire was callously saying this to a working class kid really made me angry.

That was a good line. Tony Stark is so popular because he's not nobel, he does the right thing in the end but he's reluctant about it. Honestly I liked that Tony was still a bit of a jerk.

Overall Iron Man 3 is only unpopular with a number of comic book fans. In your opinion it may be on the weaker side, but it's not even a transformers scenario (where the fans bash it AND the critic hate it as well).

 

[Doc Ock]

That's what bothered me most about that whole twist. I don't give a crap what status level of villain The Mandarin is in Iron Man's rogues gallery because I know for sure he is not a big respected villain in overall comic book lore (he's no Joker, Doc Ock, Green Goblin, Dr. Doom, Lex Luthor etc or even close to them). My problem is IM3 set up Mandarin to look like this bad ass terrorist who delivers creepy threat messages on TV, who dresses like some warped monk, who has a regime of fanatical followers (including kids) who who kiss his hands, he burns effigys of the president, who threatened to murder company executives on TV etc.

That was a much more intriguing creepy villain than Killian. Plus he was played by SIR BEN KINGSLEY, one of the best actors of our time, who was really showing his acting chops as a terrorist villain in those video scenes. Then it all turns out to be a joke. Granted I thought Kingsley was hilarious as Trevor. The man is so versatile in any role he does. But I'd have gladly sacrificed those laughs for an awesome villain.

Yeah I felt the same why and "All Hail the King" really helped me warm up to it, but I thought Iron Man 3 was a waste of Kingsley for the longest time. Could of been one of the great cbm villains, there is still a possibility it can turn around in the future MCU who knows?

 

[Lord]

Greatest cbm villains? Mandarin was a chinese caricature before, in the role he was playing inside the filmverse, he was an Arabian terrorist caricature with characteristics of the usual "the ultimate villain" trend that's been kickstarted by The Dark Knight, where the villain is even too cool for logic.

Confused Matthew's video explained i very well, though i don't necessarily agree with everything he says.

http://blip.tv/confused-matthew/iron-man-3-does-the-mandarin-matter-6695233

 

[Flint Marko]

I loved the twist. Kingsley looked awesome in the trailers and I was expecting a great performance, and I got what I wanted in a completely different form than I expected.
All Hail the King has me looking forward to the future of the Mandarin and the Ten Rings, although I don't expect them to go down that path anytime soon. But when they do, I'll be excited

 

[A Necessary Evil]

Iron Man 3 is ****in awesome.

 

[degraves93]

If the deal goes through, the first reboot will seem beyond pointless

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

If the deal goes through, the first reboot will seem beyond pointless

unless the deal features spidey's mcu feature film debut as amazing spiderman 3. you never know.

 

[harryoscop]

unless the deal features spidey's mcu feature film debut as amazing spiderman 3. you never know.

I'm pretty sure it won't.

 

[degraves93]

unless the deal features spidey's mcu feature film debut as amazing spiderman 3. you never know.

Marvel wants a completely clean slate. That means no relation to either previous series.

 

[X Knight]

maybe they really do need to do TASM 3. and if that underperforms TASM 2 ( thus continuing the downward trend ), perhaps that will be the final straw for Sony and then they'll do the deal with Marvel for a fresh MCU reboot.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I'm pretty sure it won't.

I know man, but that's why sony and disney are talking right? to work something out? amy pascal didn't wanna let garfield go.

Marvel wants a completely clean slate. That means no relation to either previous series.

I KNOW man but they're talking, aren't they? i don't think sony wants to completely rule out an asm3 with garfield. I understand that the most likely scenario is a reboot, but still... until we hear from the inside, we/you never know.

maybe they really do need to do TASM 3. and if that underperforms TASM 2 ( thus continuing the downward trend ), perhaps that will be the final straw for Sony and then they'll do the deal with Marvel for a fresh MCU reboot.

no no no NO way man!!!! it's either tasm3 in the mcu, or reboot spidey in the mcu. no way should they just continue on their own. that is not a good option for them. i can see sony being delusional and deciding to do that, but they're just going further down south.

by the way X, this is the first time I've seen you post outside of the gaming forums, lol

 

[degraves93]

I know there's no way of knowing for sure at this point, but I simply don't see TASM3 happening. If Sony stupidly decides to press on, it'll probably be with S6 or the 'soft reboot'.

 

[X Knight]

no no no NO way man!!!! it's either tasm3 in the mcu, or reboot spidey in the mcu. no way should they just continue on their own. that is not a good option for them. i can see sony being delusional and deciding to do that, but they're just going further down south.

by the way X, this is the first time I've seen you post outside of the gaming forums, lol

well, then you just haven't been visiting other threads, cuz I post plenty outside of the gaming forums.

as for TASM 3, I don't want to see it. I want a fresh MCU reboot.

but somehow I could see Sony making one last ditch effort to hold onto the franchise.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

well, then you just haven't been visiting other threads, cuz I post plenty outside of the gaming forums.

as for TASM 3, I don't want to see it. I want a fresh MCU reboot.

but somehow I could see Sony making one last ditch effort to hold onto the franchise.

word, well for most of last year I've lurked in pretty much just the gaming forums but since the sony leak i've been spending a great deal of time around here.

and yo. they definitely should not give one last ditch effort. if they're considering MCU they need to make a deal NOW. continuing asm will mean postponing spidey's debut in the mcu even longer and nobody wants that, especially now that everything's hyped up with the leak

 

[Sterling Archer]

Pointless? No. I will always defend the first Amazing Spider-man movie as far superior to anything Raimi did with the franchise and I think people where just determined to not like it when they found out they were rebooting Raimi's trilogy. The only real problems I have with the first movie is the whole "untold story" angle with Peter's parents, the disappointing third act and the under-developed Lizard character. The good and great far outweigh the bad in my opinion, which is not something I can say about any of the Raimi Spider-man movies.

The second movie messed everything up though, and that's down to the writers and the producers.

 

[X Knight]

word, well for most of last year I've lurked in pretty much just the gaming forums but since the sony leak i've been spending a great deal of time around here.

and yo. they definitely should not give one last ditch effort. if they're considering MCU they need to make a deal NOW. continuing asm will mean postponing spidey's debut in the mcu even longer and nobody wants that, especially now that everything's hyped up with the leak

yeah. Marvel would want to know whether they can use Spidey in future MCU films, cuz they're already planning those films.

 

[degraves93]

I don't think the ASM series was totally pointless, even if it was mostly made to retain the rights. Garfield, to me, was vastly superior to his predecessor as Spidey and Stone was a much-improved love interest. The villains were hit-or-miss, but I still liked them. So, to say that these films are parallels Batman Forever and Batman & Robin is disingenuous.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

No, they're pretty obvious how close the films are to one another.

 

[degraves93]

No, they're pretty obvious how close the films are to one another.

What I meant to say is that neither ASM film is as bad as Schumacher's Batman. But, to each their own.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

I think they are worse, especially the second one. At least I can say Schumacher's entertain me.

 

[degraves93]

I think they are worse, especially the second one. At least I can say Schumacher's entertain me.

I'm assuming you realize you're in a considerable minority on that. Nevertheless, I genuinely applaud you for saying that anyway. Takes guts. I mean it.