We Wish The Wrestling Thread The Best In All Its Future Endeavors. - Part 9

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Do you REALLY think he's gonna give up ten million dollars per movie where he doesn't have to get hurt and come back and wrestle even semi regularly for less and the chance he might get hurt?

He may be back from time to time to make guest appearances but its not going to be regular and he's not going to wrestle much at all after this is over. I think the fact that we may have to wait a YEAR for for his next match says it all. He's got other commitments.

And like I said why should WWE put Rock over Cena for the CHANCE that they'll bring back a few older viewers when it may HURT the chance that they'll bring in many more new younger viewers. WWE's audience has always been built on new YOUNG viewers since Vince took over from his father.

Rock HAS been back and Raw isn't getting Attitude Era numbers. Thats just the facts.

Do you think numbers didn't go up because it's been so long since he showed up that most people that stopped watching felt it wouldn't have been worth it to start just to see him? Seven years is a long time to try and get old fans back just to see you not wrestle.
 
If anyone wants more proof that Vince is out of his mind and living on the planet next to Warriors skip ahead to 2:15 in this video.
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And heres more proof

Exclusive: Senior WWE Staffers Shocked by Vince After WM

by Nick Paglino

WrestleZone can confirm this evening that WWE Chairman Vince McMahon, WWE EVP Stephanie McMahon, writing team Vice President Brian Gewirtz, Smackdown lead writer Michael Hayes, Senior Writer Ed Koskey and a majority of the WWE creative team did NOT attend the WrestleMania 27 After Party as they all usually do.

We were told the reason is because Vince decided to call a meeting immediately after Wrestlemania to review and revise the Raw script for the next night. While it is common for scripts to be revised often, we were told by a key insider within WWE that it was shocking to even the most senior members of Vince's staff that Vince called the meeting right after WrestleMania as opposed to the next morning.

We were told that nothing unplanned happened during WrestleMania that could have triggered such a reaction from Vince, but rather this was a case of Vince wanting to continue to work even though the norm is for everyone to attend the WrestleMania After-Party.
And even more

Exclusive: WWE Creative Team Burnt Out by Vince's Demands
by Nick Paglino

In an exclusive follow-up to our last report concerning World Wrestling Entertainment Chairman Vince McMahon calling a Raw meeting following WrestleMania, WZ can now report, after speaking with a number of key WWE insiders, that a majority of the creative team feels extremely burnt out right now and has apparently never been worked so hard by Vince.

"The revisions and constant reviewing of the TV scripts are becoming so dramatic and belabored, the writing team members are comparing themselves to the announcers when Vince is screaming into their headsets during TV," a key WWE insider told WZ this evening.

Additionally, we were told that the last minute changes and revisions are becoming erratic and irrational, so much so that the creative team feels like they have no clue as to what Vince wants anymore. More on this developing story as it becomes available.

All that work and WM27 and Raw STILL had a lot of problems. Maybe the reason why is because Vince keeps changing his damn mind and the last minute and can't let creative work steadily.

This explains why many things felt so erratic and poorly planned.



i think he could do a few months a year - i dunno mate and neither do you, i didnt think he would ever wrestle again but he is

its not doing attitude numbers because it isnt as good as the attitude era

and i dont think alot of people who might watch it for the rock even know he is back - alot of people i know who like the rock had no idea till i told them

He's not going to do a few months a year. He's not even doing that NOW and this is the biggest feud WWE could give him right now. He'll probably do a few days a year in WWE at the most. We aren't even getting the biggest match WWE could do now til NEXT YEAR.

As for ratings and people coming back to watch my point is Rock returning hasn't given WWE HUGE numbers. Ratings have gone up but if he comes back semi regularly ratings will settle back down because it will become common place and not special.

A lot of people might not know he's back because they don't care to watch...but his return has gotten big press. He was JUST on the Tonight Show talking about WWE and Wrestlemania so you can't say he's not out there promoting it. If people are paying any attention to the media Rocks WWE return has been discussed.

The point is people DO know Cena is there and he's there every week. He's going to be the guy bringing in new young viewers. Not a guy who shows up sporadically. Its important that the current top guy looks good. A loss isn't going to hurt Rock at all. Hogans loss to The Rock didn't hurt him at all. People just remember how great the match is...and Hogan is arguably the biggest star in WWE history.


Do you think numbers didn't go up because it's been so long since he showed up that most people that stopped watching felt it wouldn't have been worth it to start just to see him? Seven years is a long time to try and get old fans back just to see you not wrestle.

The numbers didn't go u to AE level because the entire business has cooled off. The same reasons the numbers went down in the mid 90s.

A lot of people have just moved on. A lot of those AE viewers were casual fans and wrestling was a FAD to them. I went to high school with a ton of people like that. I've always watched wrestling but most of the people I know in the late 90's didn't start watching until it became the hip thing to watch.

A lot of people forget WWE's numbers began to decline before Rock and Austin even left for good. It wasn't a big decline but it was starting.

WWE has to be concerned with bringing in NEW viewers. Not only satisfying older ones who don't watch. And they can only regularly do that with their regular current roster who is there to work on tv every week. They have to build NEW stars. We were ALL new viewers at one point weren't we?

I started watching in the 80's and it wasn't because they had Bruno come in and beat Hogan. Hogan was the guy and they promoted him as such.
 
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Vince McMahon is one black windbreaker jacket and extremely white pants away from being Oakland Raiders Owner Al Davis.
 
Vince is out of touch and more or less out of his mind. His plan to bring in new viewers is apparently to try and convince everyone it's not wrestling and then to outdo hollywood at their own game. Honestly I think we might be better off letting Triple H run things. Sure he might rewrite history to make himself the greatest wrestler that ever set foot in the ring, there might be a giant gold statue of him and maybe name the hall of fame after himself but aside from that he'd probably do a great job.
 
If anyone wants more proof that Vince is out of his mind and living on the planet next to Warriors skip ahead to 2:15 in this video.
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He's not going to do a few months a year. He's not even doing that NOW and this is the biggest feud WWE could give him right now. He'll probably do a few days a year in WWE at the most. We aren't even getting the biggest match WWE could do now til NEXT YEAR.

A lot of people might not know he's back because they don't care to watch...but his return has gotten big press. He was JUST on the Tonight Show talking about WWE and Wrestlemania so you can't say he's not out there promoting it. If people are paying any attention to the media Rocks WWE return has been discussed.

again you do not know that - obviously it is at mania due to it being a potential iconic one for the ages match, and that is the place to do it - you do not know how often he will appear till then or if he will have some matches before then (as valuable practice) you are not presenting facts as you claim, but just your own speculation as facts and at the same time branding my speculation as wrong

maybe its got more press in america, i was just saying from my experience over here very few people knew he had come back

I would also like to see wrestlemanias numbers as I know at least 4 people who ordered it who otherwise wouldnt just because he was there
 
Vince is out of touch and more or less out of his mind. His plan to bring in new viewers is apparently to try and convince everyone it's not wrestling and then to outdo hollywood at their own game. Honestly I think we might be better off letting Triple H run things. Sure he might rewrite history to make himself the greatest wrestler that ever set foot in the ring, there might be a giant gold statue of him and maybe name the hall of fame after himself but aside from that he'd probably do a great job.

From a creative perspective as afraid as I am of Triple H's biases at this point I think he'd easily do a better job running WWE than Vince. Triple H's ideas at least seem to be more modern and not so outdated and he respects the business and its history above all else. Vince wanted Drew Carey in the HOF. Triple h wanted Abdullah The Butcher. Nuff said.

I think Vince can still contribute to WWE better than anyone when it comes to the business side and general promotion. Nobody has a vision of grandness and spectacle like Vince McMahon. He knows how to close deals and he at least understands the importance of media exposure and promotion. Thats always been big with him even if its a new medium.

But when it comes to the minute details of creative Vince has no clue what he's doing anymore. And really even when WWE was at its peaks he always listened to other peoples opinion on those things. People like Pat Patterson. It was always Vince's call when it was time to make a final decision but he had people working for him to give him some informed options. And he was willing to hire people like that.

Now he's surrounded himself with so many yes men and no talents that he doesn't even seem to bother to listen to other peoples input like he used to. With no Cornettes or Heymans or Pattersons there full time to offer Vince an alternate view its just becoming a really bad case of creative tunnel vision.

He's let his power and his ego cloud any sense of questioning himself and there's nobody around to put things in perspective for him. He's living in his own world where he makes the rules and his perspective is totally skewed. Thats only going to hurt WWE in the long run.



again you do not know that - obviously it is at mania due to it being a potential iconic one for the ages match, and that is the place to do it - you do not know how often he will appear till then or if he will have some matches before then (as valuable practice) you are not presenting facts as you claim, but just your own speculation as facts and at the same time branding my speculation as wrong

maybe its got more press in america, i was just saying from my experience over here very few people knew he had come back

I would also like to see wrestlemanias numbers as I know at least 4 people who ordered it who otherwise wouldnt just because he was there

More and more people are ordering Wrestlemania in groups so if anything buyrates may be lower.

The FACT is he has to promote Fast Five and he has another movie he wants to do soon. Thats not my opinion but a fact. News JUST broke about yet another movie hes interested in. FACT. The FACT is he can't take HUGE chunks out of his Hollywood schedule to wrestle or even appear semi regularly. His chances of getting hurt go UP the more he wrestles. The FACT is the studios will not be happy if a star they signed gets injured wrestling and has to have surgery and rehab for 4-6 months.

You tell me if the Rock gets injured wrestling and he's set to star in a film what the hell are the studios going to do? Can they even insure him for a film if he's wrestling semi regularly? I'd imagine it would get harder to do that the more he puts his body at risk in the ring. Studios dump TENS of MILLIONS of dollars into film productions. Thats a FACT. Not an opinion. Do you think they are HAPPY to risk their leading man?

As for Rocks appearance...lets use some common sense here. Do you REALLY think he's going to ignore money thats FIVE or TEN times more than what WWE can pay him to do something thats less physically dangerous than wrestling. If studios offer the Rock nice deals for movies that have long shooting schedules and are in other parts of the world there is no way he can do that AND come back to WWE for a few months out of the year. Its just not physically possible even IF he wanted to do both.

As long as Hollywood makes Rock offers we aren't going to see back more than a few times out off the year. And he's leaving right now to work on one movie and then to promote Fast Five.

The Rock worked HARD to make it in Hollywood and he still wants to make a bigger name for himself. He's not going to throw that away. That means he's going to have to make some heavy commitments sometimes. That doesn't leave room for him to come back to WWE a few months out of the year going forward. I can see him continuing to make one or two appearances a year after his match with Cena..but beyond that? I REALLY doubt it.
 
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You know Vince is going insane when he truly mismanages his biggest show of the year.

Like Metallo, I think Triple H would do well running the company from a Creative standpoint. Biases aside, he's been around the business for over a decade. Beyond obvious politics and favoritism, the stable Evolution was his creation and the last great stable. He knows how to make groups strong, that's missing abundantly.
 
The Rock worked HARD to make it in Hollywood and he still wants to make a bigger name for himself. He's not going to throw that away. That means he's going to have to make some heavy commitments sometimes. That doesn't leave room for him to come back to WWE a few months out of the year going forward. I can see him continuing to make one or two appearances a year after his match with Cena..but beyond that? I REALLY doubt it.
Rock stated in a recent interview that he whent to make films because it was a new passion of his and he thought he could choose only one. He said understands now that he can do both. Now, while that may not mean all the time, don't be surprised if he's around more often. He has a passion for wrestling.
 
You know Vince is going insane when he truly mismanages his biggest show of the year.

Like Metallo, I think Triple H would do well running the company from a Creative standpoint. Biases aside, he's been around the business for over a decade. Beyond obvious politics and favoritism, the stable Evolution was his creation and the last great stable. He knows how to make groups strong, that's missing abundantly.

I also doubt you'll see Triple H yelling and screaming at things and people over problems or physically threatening tv journalists.

I'm shocked Vince hasn't had a heart attack yet.



Rock stated in a recent interview that he whent to make films because it was a new passion of his and he thought he could choose only one. He said understands now that he can do both. Now, while that may not mean all the time, don't be surprised if he's around more often. He has a passion for wrestling.

More often may mean more than once (live) in seven years. He's not going to come back and do 3 month long stints in WWE and it certainly won't be full of wrestling when he does come back.

No film studio is going it insure him and will certainly be wary of hiring him if he's off wrestling semi regularly. If he tears a muscle that means surgery and months of rehab. Something like that can f*** with the shooting schedule of 50-100 million dollar movie big time. Especially if Rocks the star of the movie.

Look at the match with Cena. They are holding it off for a whole year.

If a studio wants Rock to go to Europe to film a movie how can he come back regularly during a storyline where he has to appear and wrestle? If a studio wants Rock to fly to Asia to do a long promotional tour would it be easy for him to be there for a three month stint on Raw? Thats what I mean when I say sometimes he'll have to make hard choices.

When his schedule permits he WILL be back in WWE from time to time but there will be more times than less where he can't do both and he WILL have to choose.
 
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I think Rock's comeback match against Cena will be a one time deal to properly close the wrestling chapter of his life. If not, I'd love to see him go against Rey Mysterio and Shawn Michaels as he stated at the 2008 HOF although I'd think he was BSing with HBK to get a cheap pop from the crowd due to the past heat between the two.

Why did he even bother coming back if wrestlemania 28 is going to be the face off between he and cena??

Either he got a huge paycheck from Vince for his cameo appearances or he buried the hatchet given the rumored fallout between the two or both. As for not wrestling, he probably felt he wasn't ready to get back in the ring and considering he was gone for 7 years, its better to wait and practice in order to give a memorable performance instead of rushing it right away and putting on a suckfest.
 
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All that work and WM27 and Raw STILL had a lot of problems. Maybe the reason why is because Vince keeps changing his damn mind and the last minute and can't let creative work steadily.

This explains why many things felt so erratic and poorly planned.



I believe that .. The storylines have been consistently bad and Vince has the money to hire good writers. There has to be something between point A and B that's causing all these cracks. The only thing lately that I can see would rightfully cause a stir is the Rock's involvement. I think they got more than they bargained for and weren't sure where to go from there.
Aside from that ..almost everything else is a mess.
 
I think Rock's comeback match against Cena will be a one time deal to properly close the wrestling chapter of his life.
.

I think that would be appropriate. I'm sure he'll do the occasional guest spot every so often and that's fine. I think it's great he is at least willing to go through with another match.
 
From a creative perspective as afraid as I am of Triple H's biases at this point I think he'd easily do a better job running WWE than Vince. Triple H's ideas at least seem to be more modern and not so outdated and he respects the business and its history above all else. Vince wanted Drew Carey in the HOF. Triple h wanted Abdullah The Butcher. Nuff said.

I think Vince can still contribute to WWE better than anyone when it comes to the business side and general promotion. Nobody has a vision of grandness and spectacle like Vince McMahon. He knows how to close deals and he at least understands the importance of media exposure and promotion. Thats always been big with him even if its a new medium.

But when it comes to the minute details of creative Vince has no clue what he's doing anymore. And really even when WWE was at its peaks he always listened to other peoples opinion on those things. People like Pat Patterson. It was always Vince's call when it was time to make a final decision but he had people working for him to give him some informed options. And he was willing to hire people like that.

Now he's surrounded himself with so many yes men and no talents that he doesn't even seem to bother to listen to other peoples input like he used to. With no Cornettes or Heymans or Pattersons there full time to offer Vince an alternate view its just becoming a really bad case of creative tunnel vision.

He's let his power and his ego cloud any sense of questioning himself and there's nobody around to put things in perspective for him. He's living in his own world where he makes the rules and his perspective is totally skewed. Thats only going to hurt WWE in the long run.





More and more people are ordering Wrestlemania in groups so if anything buyrates may be lower.

The FACT is he has to promote Fast Five and he has another movie he wants to do soon. Thats not my opinion but a fact. News JUST broke about yet another movie hes interested in. FACT. The FACT is he can't take HUGE chunks out of his Hollywood schedule to wrestle or even appear semi regularly. His chances of getting hurt go UP the more he wrestles. The FACT is the studios will not be happy if a star they signed gets injured wrestling and has to have surgery and rehab for 4-6 months.

You tell me if the Rock gets injured wrestling and he's set to star in a film what the hell are the studios going to do? Can they even insure him for a film if he's wrestling semi regularly? I'd imagine it would get harder to do that the more he puts his body at risk in the ring. Studios dump TENS of MILLIONS of dollars into film productions. Thats a FACT. Not an opinion. Do you think they are HAPPY to risk their leading man?

As for Rocks appearance...lets use some common sense here. Do you REALLY think he's going to ignore money thats FIVE or TEN times more than what WWE can pay him to do something thats less physically dangerous than wrestling. If studios offer the Rock nice deals for movies that have long shooting schedules and are in other parts of the world there is no way he can do that AND come back to WWE for a few months out of the year. Its just not physically possible even IF he wanted to do both.

As long as Hollywood makes Rock offers we aren't going to see back more than a few times out off the year. And he's leaving right now to work on one movie and then to promote Fast Five.

The Rock worked HARD to make it in Hollywood and he still wants to make a bigger name for himself. He's not going to throw that away. That means he's going to have to make some heavy commitments sometimes. That doesn't leave room for him to come back to WWE a few months out of the year going forward. I can see him continuing to make one or two appearances a year after his match with Cena..but beyond that? I REALLY doubt it.


sorry for disagreeing with your obviously correct opinion and for having my own

obviously you are right why bother speculating

I will still be here if and when everything you have said doesnt go exactly the way you have forseen it though

also thanks for being condescending toward anything that differs from YOUR opinion (which is obviously right)

I've een the jerkish way you have replied to nell for having a difference in opinion too so not sure why I expected anything less obnoxious or condescending


oh and yes you have used facts to back up your opinion, but its still speculation, it doesnt make your opinion the fact you claim it to be all of a sudden
 
If it wasn't for his tenure in WWE, the Rock would have not been in movies. I think he realizes that and it's why he's decided to return to the WWE.
 
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