We Wish The Wrestling Thread The Best In All Its Future Endeavors. - Part 9

[Nemi]

miz is'nt a giant or a body builder or anything also him and punk are the same height

comes down to personality and look punk has a very snarky sometimes ******* personality not the best for public speaking especially with his piercings and tats and punk usually wears baggy jeans and hoodies

miz wears fancy suits and a clean hair cut

but the booking i agree punk has not won a feud since jeff hardy

Miz might have the title right now but he isn't doing all that great. You do have a very good point though. His personality and style are also something Vince doesn't want in someone who is gonna carry the company. He wants people that look like The Miz...but bigger.

I always felt bad for CM Punk, one of my current favorites. Much like Chris Jericho, he's always been a victim of bad booking. Let's recap:

It says a lot about his talent that he can get through all that

 

[MMMMM...Pancakes]

SD Spoilers

Spoiler

I hope they slowly start an Edge/Christian feud over the next year leading into a match at Mania 28 for the WHC, with Christian winning.

 

[Pittman4Two]

Please give us a ladder match between Edge and Christian at WM 28.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Spoiler

Kane, Big Show,Kofi Kingston & Santino Marella defeated The Corre in a Best of Three Falls bout.

Layla informed McCool she signed them up for couple's therapy. McCool told her they weren't a couple and Layla told her to just show up.

Alberto Del Rio defeated Christian to earn a World title shot at the Extreme Rules PPV.

These three things from the SD spoilers had me going.

 

[Metallo]

He did with Shawn.Then again Michaels is the exception not the rule.

Randy Savage as well and really Bret Hart too.

Vince always prefers bigger larger than life bodies but he's shown he's willing to let a smaller man carry the gold. he also put the WWF title on Ric Flair twice thought Flair wasn't really "carrying the company".

Hart Michaels and Savage are the prime examples. Another lesser example is Eddie Guerrero. He wasn't going to be THE star but isn't Eddie one of, if not THE shortest WWE champion ever?

There is an old saying in wrestling. It goes to say that Wrestling is only as good as its heels. There aren't any really great heels in the WWE right now.

The sad thing is they've got a few guys that be great heels but they are afraid to really let the heels look good. Even for a short amount of time.

Triple H got over great as a heel in 2000 because they didn't cut his legs out from under him...so to speak.

 

[Slushy]

I got the dvd too. Brisco says the crowds weren't behind it but from watching the actual house show matches the crowds didn't exactly seem dead either. I do think the WWE audience wasn't as familiar with Flair but the could have gotten around that problem with some work. But then Patterson says it would have been great and has no idea why it didn't happen. Its very strange.

I've got a feeling a lot of things went towards Hogan/Flair not happening at Mania. Two of them being politics and ego. Hogan teasing retirment around that time also makes me wonder.

Well, the steroid scandal pretty much Hogan's career short. Vince wasn't going to give the title to a guy leaving the company and Hogan wasn't going to job to Flair or Sid in his "last" match.

Hart Michaels and Savage are the prime examples. Another lesser example is Eddie Guerrero. He wasn't going to be THE star but isn't Eddie one of, if not THE shortest WWE champion ever?

Eddie was going to be a long term champion, even longer than his buddy C**** B*****, but he couldn't handle the pressure so he asked management to pass the belt to his other buddy, JBL.

 

[Nemi]

Randy Savage as well and really Bret Hart too.

Hasn't Randy alwasy been pretty big? The guy looks like he could break someone in half if he chose to.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Here's a question for you guys:

What are your top five feuds/matches (in order from most to least desired) that were realistically possible that you wish could have happened in a certain era but for whatever reason never did?

Mine are

1. Hulk Hogan vs Ric Flair-1992. It sort of happened at house shows and there was a feud but the big PPV match never came to be in WWF at that time. The feud died out and went in different directions.

2. Shawn Michaels vs The Rock - 2003. Did Rock ever get payback for that superkick from HBK during a title match with HHH? The entertainment factor alone would have been off the charts.

3. Shawn Michaels vs Eddie Guerrero - 2004. I think even Michaels named this as one match he wished could have happened that never did.

4. Hulk Hogan vs Jake Roberts - 1989. They teased it once but I'm sure most of us know why they never did this feud. They didn't get the reaction they wanted.

5. Randy Savage vs Rick Rude - 1988. This was a simple one to pull off and both these guys were off the charts workers. They had a match before but it wasn't in WWF. A full blown WWF feud could have been gold. They both carried Warrior to two of the best matches he's ever had.

Man that Rude/Savage feud would have been awesome and I think I know the angle you are thinking of using for it.

Mine would be:

1. Shawn Michaels vs CM Punk - 2009. Basically the straight edge saviour vs the only face who has a chequered past that is used in angles. The promos and the matches would have been fantastic.

2. Bret Hart vs Randy Savage - 1994. Since Hogan wasn't going to do the job for Bret in 93 I think this match should have headlined Wrestlemania X.

3. Shawn Michaels vs Eddie Guerrero - 2004. It didn't need to be a feud, just a marquee match at a PPV.

4. Stone Cold vs Vader - 1998. I think Vader should have been repackaged as Vince's monster to feud with Austin.

5. Triple H vs Brock Lesnar - 2003. A PPV inter-promotional one off match between the two should have happened before Brock left.

 

[Metallo]

Well, the steroid scandal pretty much Hogan's career short. Vince wasn't going to give the title to a guy leaving the company and Hogan wasn't going to job to Flair or Sid in his "last" match.

I know. Thats why I say his "retirement" makes me wonder. Hogan could have delayed his retirement and still had the match though. He could have dropped the belt shortly after.

As far as the steroid scandal I know Hogan left parttly because of that but Hogan was back a year later and he got the belt back again. This was all before Vince's trial even began.

It would seem risky to me to put the belt back on Hogan in 93 after having in the smaller Bret Hart before the trial ever began but Hogan had no problem pushing for it then.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Hasn't Randy alwasy been pretty big? The guy looks like he could break someone in half if he chose to.

In his prime Savage weighed about 235lbs and was shorter than Bret and HBK, he was just more muscular.

 

[Slushy]

My Five:

Hogan Vs. Austin

Rock Vs. Michaels

Mysterio Vs. Helmsley

Guerrero Vs. Undertaker

Lesnar Vs. Batista

 

[Nemi]

In his prime Savage weighed about 235lbs and was shorter than Bret and HBK, he was just more muscular.

Ah, I see. I don't know it seems like if you're not a big guy or at least someone who looks like he can dominate then it's much more of an uphill struggle to get to the main event.

 

[TripleR]

5. Triple H vs Brock Lesnar - 2003. A PPV inter-promotional one off match between the two should have happened before Brock left.

I've always wanted to see this match too. Looking back it's easy to say just do a one off match before he left, but at the time they figured Brock was going to be around for a long time and it would be better to save it for an epic feud down the line. I've read this was supposed to headline WM21 before Brock decided to leave a month before WM20.

I think they purposefully kept them apart so when they eventually did clash it would seem almost like a dream match, with each guy being the top dog on their respective brands for years prior to it. With there being no major game in town besides WWE I think that line of thinking is one of the advantages to the brand extension. They can (if they're smart enough to) keep two guys apart for years at a time so when they finally do meet it's almost like the stars of two different companies locking up. Almost like a corporately manufactured dream match.

 

[Metallo]

Man that Rude/Savage feud would have been awesome and I think I know the angle you are thinking of using for it.

Mine would be:

1. Shawn Michaels vs CM Punk - 2009. Basically the straight edge saviour vs the only face who has a chequered past that is used in angles. The promos and the matches would have been fantastic.

2. Bret Hart vs Randy Savage - 1994. Since Hogan wasn't going to do the job for Bret in 93 I think this match should have headlined Wrestlemania X.

3. Shawn Michaels vs Eddie Guerrero - 2004. It didn't need to be a feud, just a marquee match at a PPV.

4. Stone Cold vs Vader - 1998. I think Vader should have been repackaged as Vince's monster to feud with Austin.

5. Triple H vs Brock Lesnar - 2003. A PPV inter-promotional one off match between the two should have happened before Brock left.

Another great set of picks

Punk vs Michaels was one I wanted badly too. Another one with a simple story. Punk calls out Shawn for his past transgressions. Maybe Shawn calls Punk modern day Jim Baker, a false prophet, and tells him his "religion" is a sham. Could have been absolute gold.

I REALLY like the idea of Austin vs Vader. If Vader had been in his prime

Yeah Savage vs Rude is EASY to book. Rude wants a shot at Savages WWE title. Then he starts licking his chops for a taste of Ms Elizabeth and tells her to come join a real man. Savage procedes to go nuclear on Rick Rude...possibly for real

Wasn't Global Warning triple threat as close as we got to an actual HHH vs Lesnar match? I know they put that tour on dvd.

In his prime Savage weighed about 235lbs and was shorter than Bret and HBK, he was just more muscular.

Really? I always though they were around the same height. If Savage is shorter it can't be by much. He always looked somewhere between 5'11" and 6'1" to me and Bret looked close to 6 feet tall.

 

[venom892]

Mine are

1.Hogan vs. Austin 2002-2003
2.Shawn Michaels vs. The Rock 2002-2004
3.Shawn Michaels vs. Eddie 2004-2005
4.Bret Hart vs. Randy Savage 1992-1994
5.Bret Hart vs. Hulk Hogan 1998

bonus:Punk vs. Michaels 2009

 

[Darkness Falls]

Mine would be
Eddie G Vs Shawn (2004)
Taker Vs Sting (2001 invasion)
Brock Lesnar Vs Triple H (2002)
Shawn Michaels vs CM Punk - 2009
Kurt Angle Vs Ken Shamrock (1999)

 

[Dr. Evil]

The Rock is on the Tonight Show tonight.

 

[Lantern Venom]

I've just got back from a short vacation and it's time for some Wrestlemania thoughts:

THE GOOD:

Cody vs. Rey- Strong undercard match. Cody took a step forward and Rey looked good in what is surely one of his last Manias. The best part of this match for me was my best friend's son ( a huge Mysterio fan) angrily shaking his fists at the TV and screaming that he hated "Kid Dusty".

Orton vs Punk- Orton winning didn't make sense but WWE has made it clear that despite Punk being a heat magnet, he'll never break into the elite club where Orton, Cena, and Trips have lived in luxury for too many years. However, I can't fault the in-ring action & storytelling.

HHH vs Undertaker-It fell far short of HBK-Taker 1 & 2, but they did as well as could have been expected. Both guys showcased their well-honed acting skills to make up for the fact that neither is as athletic as they were 2-3 years ago. I also liked the fact that Taker, unlike Cena, actually SOLD his beating after the match. HHH's compassion for Taker was a nice touch too.


Vickie G.- It always takes about 2 seconds for her grating voice to put the crowd on edge and WM was no exception. Well done, ma'am.

THE BAD:

Where do I begin?

Sheamus (a main eventer for the last two years) Jack Swagger ( WHC last year) Kofi Kingston ( a top mid-carder and beloved face) Big Show ( a beloved legend who also worked main event angles last year) Wade Barrett (an up and coming heel) and Daniel Bryan (another Kofi-like mid carder) were all given forgettable roles or bumped from the broadcast so time could be given to Snooki and Michael Cole. Oh Joy.

Cole vs Lawler- A candidate for worst WM match of all time. 13 mintes from bell to bell. It should have been about 90 seconds.

Edge vs Del Rio- The action was good but not Wrestlemania good. While I'm a fan of Edge, Del Rio losing here felt like a missed opportunity. No Christian heel turn felt like another one. For that matter, the 8 man would have been a perfect place for Clay to make his Wrestlemania in-ring debut instead of just standing on the outside of the WHC match.

Cena vs. Miz- not worthy of the top spot at Mania. The in-ring action wasn't awful but there wasn't anything memorable. The ending was completely befuddling. BTW, Vince, John Cena IS A HEEL. When 90% of the crowd at WM boo someone in the main event, he is a heel via default regardless of the booking.

Mixed Tag- I can't fault Snooki's athleticism but she got over at MM's expense. I can't put into words how much I loathe celebs being booked as superior to wrestlers.

Cena's entrance--I'm not blaming Cena himself for this one. WWE using a Gospel choir and a hymn for Cena's entrance was sacrilege. Seriously, Vince, are you ever going to learn?!

 

[Project862006]

A problem wwe will suffer with rock/cena is most internet attitude era type fans hate cena and so do quite a few wwe fans and probably want the rock to win and he absolutely shouldn't this should be a passing of the torch much like rock/hogan was and rock will be gone after mania while cena who s about 33 will be there for several more years and when cena wins they may hate him even more.

 

[Metallo]

I've just got back from a short vacation and it's time for some Wrestlemania thoughts:

THE GOOD:

Cody vs. Rey- Strong undercard match. Cody took a step forward and Rey looked good in what is surely one of his last Manias. The best part of this match for me was my best friend's son ( a huge Mysterio fan) angrily shaking his fists at the TV and screaming that he hated "Kid Dusty".

Orton vs Punk- Orton winning didn't make sense but WWE has made it clear that despite Punk being a heat magnet, he'll never break into the elite club where Orton, Cena, and Trips have lived in luxury for too many years. However, I can't fault the in-ring action & storytelling.

HHH vs Undertaker-It fell far short of HBK-Taker 1 & 2, but they did as well as could have been expected. Both guys showcased their well-honed acting skills to make up for the fact that neither is as athletic as they were 2-3 years ago. I also liked the fact that Taker, unlike Cena, actually SOLD his beating after the match. HHH's compassion for Taker was a nice touch too.


Vickie G.- It always takes about 2 seconds for her grating voice to put the crowd on edge and WM was no exception. Well done, ma'am.

THE BAD:

Where do I begin?

Sheamus (a main eventer for the last two years) Jack Swagger ( WHC last year) Kofi Kingston ( a top mid-carder and beloved face) Big Show ( a beloved legend who also worked main event angles last year) Wade Barrett (and up and coming heel) and Daniel Bryan (another Kofi-like mid carder) were all given forgettable roles or bumped from the broadcast so time could be given to Snooki and Michael Cole. Oh Joy.

Cole vs Lawler- A candidate for worst WM match of all time. 13 mintes from bell to bell. It should have been about 90 seconds.

Edge vs Del Rio- The action was good but not Wrestlemania good. While I'm a fan of Edge, Del Rio losing here felt like a missed opportunity. No Christian heel turn felt like another one. For that matter, the 8 man would have been a perfect place for Clay to make his Wrestlemania in-ring debut instead of just standing on the outside of the WHC match.

Cena vs. Miz- not worthy of the top spot at Mania. The in-ring action wasn't awful but there wasn't anything memorable. The ending was completely befuddling. BTW, Vince, John Cena IS A HEEL. When 90% of the crowd at WM boo someone in the main event, he is a heel via default regardless of the booking.

Mixed Tag- I can't fault Snooki's athleticism but she got over at MM's expense. I can't put into words how much I loathe celebs being booked as superior to wrestlers.

Cena's entrance--I'm not blaming Cena himself for this one. WWE using a Gospel choir and a hymn for Cena's entrance was sacriledge. Seriously, Vince, are you ever going to learn?!

You feel the same way I do about WM27


Just to make myself feel better I've been on youtube.

Shawn Michaels V Rowdy Roddy Piper (WWF 1992)
[YT]hMSZfZNZj78[/YT]

Randy Savage vs Roddy Piper (part 1)
[YT]61rLJVNW12w[/YT]

Randy Savage vs Roddy Piper (part 2)
[YT]DNDMjpbt2V4[/YT]

 

[Lantern Venom]

You feel the same way I do about WM27


Just to make myself feel better I've been on youtube.

Shawn Michaels V Rowdy Roddy Piper (WWF 1992)
[YT]hMSZfZNZj78[/YT]

Randy Savage vs Roddy Piper (part 1)
[YT]61rLJVNW12w[/YT]

Randy Savage vs Roddy Piper (part 2)
[YT]DNDMjpbt2V4[/YT]

My friend and I watched a bunch of matches after the show because WM left us feeling deflated.

 

[bullets]

Please give us a ladder match between Edge and Christian at WM 28.

Yes, Please Although I'd like these guys to have an Owen/Bret type of feud , they could move on to other things but still be at odds with each other. I have a feeling Christian will be turning on Edge before Summerslam.

There is an old saying in wrestling. It goes to say that Wrestling is only as good as its heels. There aren't any really great heels in the WWE right now.

There is if they're booked properly. CM Punk is capable of getting massive heat. I think the Corr could of worked but they've lost all momentum.

 

[Lantern Venom]

BTW, let me STRONGLY recommend the DVD New Jack: Hardcore. It is a very long and very in-depth shoot with New Jack.

It reinforced my image of New Jack (the man, not the persona) as charming, talented, articulate....and completely psychotic. He has the personality of a cult leader.

 

[bullets]

Cena vs. Miz- not worthy of the top spot at Mania. The in-ring action wasn't awful but there wasn't anything memorable. The ending was completely befuddling. BTW, Vince, John Cena IS A HEEL. When 90% of the crowd at WM boo someone in the main event, he is a heel via default regardless of the booking.

Any other wrestler would be turned at this point

 

[Saint]

I can't say the match would entice me either but if the aim was to get Taker to Wrestlemania XXX I could see him filling in a slot.

Yeah, I suppose they can't all be winners, and with HHH out of the way, the herd is thinning.

I think it has gotten to a point that is the streak goes it will be to a guy who carries a balance of being already established but with the foundation to be a top player in the company for the next ten years.

I'd love it to be Punk and if given the push over the next 2 years he could well be the one, as of now I think Orton is probably the strongest candidate but who knows what could develop or who could become red hot over two years, as that is a long time in the wrestling business.

Yeah, as I was saying to Metallo, I can definitely get on board with Punk.

I could be wrong but I get the feeling The Rock's decision to actually wrestle has come within the last few weeks as opposed to when he signed on to come back as Mania host, so I think maybe the reason he didn't have an official match is he's rusty and given his pride in his work he may want a few months to hone himself before attempting a full match.

See, I felt his People's Elbow looked a little mechanical, so I can believe this. There was also the botched... thing on the Raw before Wrestlemania. You know that thing he does where he jumps back to his feet? He didn't quite make it after dropping the elbow on the Miz.

If I had to guess, I'd say he may not be used to wrestling with that much mass on him. Guy is built like a goddamn tank right now.

The thing with the match was not so much how Miz wrestled, but just how awful everything they did looked, there was a lot of awkwardness and several spots looked like one or the other had forgotten what they were going to do. I've heard Cena got knocked loopy early on so that may be why, I mean he even got very little height on the Rock Bottom he took which is unusual for him.

As I said, I didn't see the match so I'll defer to your analysis. How did the show as a whole work out? I was entirely disinterested in about half the card--I don't care for Edge, Cena, or Miz, and Morrison was tied up in a gimmick match. Bryan/Sheamus wasn't even a match, I guess, which only leaves Cole/Lawer, HHH/Undertaker, and Rock insulting people as the stuff I'd be interested in.

Agreed, Sheamus has came on in leaps and bounds over the last year, he's working with all shapes and styles and delivering good matches and his offense is some of the crispest in the company.

Yeah, I think he's pretty solid right now. I think his real advantage is that he walked in, almost immediately, with a strong look and strong character--which is something a lot of guys struggle with for a long, long time (like those early Orton days on Raw). I mean, you look at Cody Rhodes--he's finding that place now, but it took him a few years. Sheamus just sort of showed up one day, being Sheamus.