Were People better Educated in the Past?

[SuBe]

I was just wondering, if you know me from the Political Forum, you know I have great admiration for our Founding Fathers. Political, Economic, and Social Philosophers of the past, do their current counterparts hold a candle to them today?

Are we producing smarter, brighter people today? I'm not talking about technology, not better graphics, or cooler interfaces, but actually better, smarter people today than what humanity had produced in the past?

 

[enterthemadness]

Good question. I don't really know though. I just know that some stuff you learn in school is useless in real life. Like algebra for one. Seriously, most people only use basic math after high school.

The only real important classes are History and English. And I'm not talking about reading old stories from famous authors English, but being taught proper English skills. something I didn't pay attention to.
​

 

[SuBe]

Good question. I don't really know though. I just know that some stuff you learn in school is useless in real life. Like algebra for one. Seriously, most people only use basic math after high school.

The only real important classes are History and English. And I'm not talking about reading old stories from famous authors English, but being taught proper English skills. something I didn't pay attention to.
​

Hence, the reason this wasn't capitalized?

Well, if you read the writings of people from the past, no one comes close.

Think about Algebra, to use your example. Someone had to create it. To think of it, to prove it. Think about political theory, someone had to think of it. Today, we stand on the shoulders of Giants, P**sing on them.

 

[Majic Walrus]

I don't believe that we produce dumber people, I believe people are encouraged to be dumber from an early age and then the people who truly are the brightest minds of today never get recognition like greats from the past did.

 

[enterthemadness]

Hence, the reason this wasn't capitalized?

Well, if you read the writings of people from the past, no one comes close.

Think about Algebra, to use your example. Someone had to create it. To think of it, to prove it. Think about political theory, someone had to think of it. Today, we stand on the shoulders of Giants, P**sing on them.

you got me, I wasn't thinking. Oh bloody hell, I did it again.

I'm just saying...that Algebra is useless after school. Take someone working in fast food, construction, entertainment business,....hell, the only people that use Algebra quite often are teachers. I haven't used bloody Algebra in 4 years.

 

[Immortalfire]

If they were, they'd have come up with and instituted the Fair Tax long ago

 

[SuBe]

I use Algebra on a daily basis. With my spread sheets and such.

 

[katie_girl09]

I could be wrong, but I think it has a lot to do with the fact that there were fewer distractions then than there are today.

 

[ChickenScratch]

Smarter int eh past? Depends on how far back you go. Before the middle ages when learning was a career they didn't learn as much as we did, but what they did was very well internalized because they did a lot of the legwork and research themselves.

The founding fathers did well because they didn't want to have a closed minded theocratic system and they took a lot of influence from the Greeks in terms of philosophy and political thought.

Now, more information is there than there ever was. But it makes people lazy, you don't have to build anything to prove a theory, you don't have to travel half way across country to learn from a specific person. Ease breeds complacency I think.

 

[SuBe]

If they were, they'd have come up with and instituted the Fair Tax long ago

What is this FairTax you speak of?

 

[Immortalfire]

Who are you, and what have you done with SuBe?

 

[Watson]

Depends on the historical period you are looking at. in the 18th and 19th centuries well educated men were expected to be literate, to speak in more than one language, and to have a grasp of advanced sciences and math, in addition to having some appreciation for the arts. I don't think we expect even as much from university graduates now. But prior to that, literacy wasn't always needed. In medieval times it wasn't uncommon for members of the aristocracy to be barely literate or completely illiterate.

If you are asking if people as a whole were better educated, I would say no. Access to education was extremely limited to groups other than white land holding males up until the 19th century, and even when education expanded it was often limited by gender roles and conceptions of race. For example, women in the 19th century were meant to be accomplished in that they should be able to read and write, play an instrument, and be able to needlepoint (and stuff like that). Outside of that there was zero expectation and little opportunity for them to seek an education. This trend continued right into the 20th century. If I had to guess, Home Ec probably wasn't compulsory for males and females till the seventies, maybe even later. From where I'm sitting, I'm so lucky that I had the pioneers and activists that fought for female education that came before my time. I certainly would not be in law school right now if it weren't for them.

 

[Watson]

Well, if you read the writings of people from the past, no one comes close.

No one comes close because the writings of Socrates, Plato, etc etc, have enormous historical weight put on them. I doubt that at the time they came up with these theories, they realized the lasting impacts they would have. Just like I doubt we understand the impacts some of the political philosophies of the 20th century may have. Free market capitalism (in it's current form), consumerism, and environmentalism, are all relatively new political theories/philosophies. Who knows how future generations will view the effects of these things?

 

[Drakon]

Maybe, kind of? I mean, On one hand, we know MORE than we did even a hundred years ago. Thanks to the advancements of technology, we have more access to more new information, in a faster environment. On the other hand, oftentimes, we as a society just don't care as much anymore. An exchange I had with Wiseman a while back:

The ciriculum(spelling?) is better in public schools but honestly 7 out of every 10 teachers are horrible at their jobs. Don't get me wrong, there are some amazing teachers, but they are few and far between. Plus the actual school doesn't really care about you so they'll pass you when they shouldn't in some schools and in others they'll fail you without even seeing if you need help in certain areas and they really don't listen if you have a complaint about anything no matter how serious and truthful it is. I've seen first hand just how broken the school system is and I've also dated teachers and I've seen what it's like for them in their district and, I'm telling you, the public school system today is broken. It started in the 80's and it's only gotten worse, much worse

I wouldn't go so far as to say that they're horrible at their jobs, just that a lot of times, they can't do the job right due to outside circumstance. Examples are thus:

1) The schools need bigger budgets, so they take more standardized tests, and instead of getting information they might need and learning it in an accessible way, they teach the kids how to pass this test so that the school can get more money. Everything from the IOWA to the LPTs are all there to help the schools get better budgets, and in turn, tend to do more harm than good. The teachers who actually have good, fun ideas to help the kids learn are shot down because their curriculum isn't up to what the school board wants them to learn [ie-testing]. And don't get me started on the whole "What is appropriate for my child to learn in school?" argument....

2) A lot of kids just don't give a crap. Why am I gonna sit here for an hour and a half listening to Mr. Pfeiffer talk about MacBeth when Rachel and Bobby are back together, and Joe got his new car? And it's gotten worse in the last ten years. When I was in high school, we still passed notes. [God, I sound old. I only graduated back in 2002!!] Now, I'm sure that happens, but a lot of the note stuff has moved to texting, which requires a bit more attention, since it's such a rapid back and forth. And while the teacher is trying to teach the kids that DO want to learn, he has to say "Please put your phone down, Ms. Compton." or "Reggie, pick your head up off the desk."

3) I know some teachers who actually fear for their lives sometimes. There's an obvious disruptor in the classroom, and the teacher can't do anything because this kid thinks he's a badass and will attack when he gets the chance. I know a teacher who was put in the hospital because this kid was sent to the principal for disrupting the class [The kid thought it was disrespectful to call him out like that in front of his peers ]. And with the rate of kids bringing weapons and such to schools nowadays, can you really blame them for being worried?

 

[Watson]

That's a really good point about the standardized testing. It's being introduced more in Ontario (grade 9's do a province wide math test, grade 10's have literacy testing) and if anything it seems like they learn less because all they do is prepare them for these tests. No SATs yet, thank god.

Even at higher levels there is a question of how useful these standard tests are. Some law schools and medical schools have either done away with the LSAT/MCAT or they don't weigh it as highly as it once was in the admissions process. How you test is only one small part of what your performance is as a student.

 

[SuperFerret]

I guarantee that there's a crapload of stupidity from back then that we don't know about because it was too stupid to record for posterity, just like what'll happen to 99.9% of the internet.

 

[Drakon]

That's actually a good point, UperErret. Worst part about history is that it's a potential victim of the editorial process.

 

[SLVRSR4]

I would say that today's people are better educated if they want to be. I enjoy reading Sarte and Camus and a hundred years ago people didn't have that option. I would say that the accumulation of knowledge is there for people to study leading to smarter people.'

 

[SuperFerret]

That's actually a good point, UperErret. Worst part about history is that it's a potential victim of the editorial process.

 

[Alex The Great]

The world is Ingrorant today, with all the technology we've grown all happy and such, people need to see the real world, and no, not twitter you blockhead.

 

[Ghostvirus]

I don't think we are stupider book smart wise. I do think we are stupid common sense wise.

 

[SuperFerret]

Being stupid may be more acceptable now that you don't need to be smart at anything in order to survive.

 

[Paradoxium]

Traditional education is certainly more politicized and does not exactly encourage more independent or creative thinkers. Certain areas of research get more funding for an example for purely political reasons. Some of you might find this interesting, albeit it might be long.

In the arts, particularly music, they for whatever god damn reason discourage people from taking a more natural style (think Mozart or Chopin), in favor of counterpoint and a few post modernist bullcrap (4'33" anyone?). I think it stems from the fact they want to say "everything is art, they are all just as good" feel good thinking. Instead of admitting some stuff are just bad, stupid, terrible or ugly.

The humanities... FUBAR

The most fortunate thing is information is more free flowing thanks to the net. I just go and read more of the classics that my profs did not like to talk about (or rather too busy gushing about Marx and Foucault) or glossed on. Best part, a lot of stuff are free (legally), although I do end up buying them. Personally hate Marx, Foucault, Kant, Marx, Rousseau, Foucault, Marx, Marx and Plato and Foucault. Not directed to poster Marx of course t:

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

The general public? No

The aristocracy and elite class? Yes

 

[NewYorkSpider]

The world is Ingrorant today, with all the technology we've grown all happy and such, people need to see the real world, and no, not twitter you blockhead.

I think technology has helped and ruined us at the same time.