What if Tim Burton Continued with Batman Forever and Batman & Robin

[Catman]

Burton only had one meeting with WB execs

When Burton went to that meeting he had no idea that WB wanted to let him go. He went in there and started giving his ideas. Then at the end one of the executives said, "Tim, aren't there other films you rather direct?" Shocked, Burton replied, "So...you don't want me to make Batman 3?" Nervously, the executive said, "No, no, I just want you to look at your options." Burton revealed all of this on the DVD. They in-directly fired him.

Tim Burton's only involvement with Batman Forever was approving Joel Schumacher as director

Isn't it funny that he had to APPROVE Joel Schumacher? It's almost as if he had some say in this film.

Burton did not contribute story ideas

Too bad the writers said differently on the DVD. The entire first draft was based on the meeting with Burton and Schumacher. Then, Burton tipped his hat off to Schumacher and left him to do whatever he wanted. That's when Schumacher brought in Akiva Goldsmith to camp up the script.

Nicole Kidman's name mentioned for the role in the early stages.

Nicole Kidman was never mentioned in the early stages because Michael Keaton was expected to return. In fact, Rene Russo was cast as Dr. Chase Meridian. When Keaton clashed with Schumacher and left the project it was decided that a younger actor should replace Keaton and that's when Val Kilmer was hired. So, Rene Russo's services were no longer needed and that's when the opportunity opened for younger actresses like Nicole Kidman.

 

[Visceral]

I'm sure there would have been loads of great dark humor and german expressionistic overtones.

What I can't picture in my head is Burton's Robin.

 

[Macphisto]

Too bad the writers said differently on the DVD.

Hey, I'm only going by what one of the screenwriters, Janet Scott Batchler, said. Read the article.

Burton also regarded WB seeking his approval before hiring Schumacher as an 'empty gesture'. They were going to do it with or without his consent.

 

[ALP]

I've always been doubtful about that, believe it or not I think it had more to do with TLJ wanting to upstage Jim Carrey than anything else. Schumacher's original plan was Two Face to be the violent villian and Riddler to be the excentric type villian, of course that dinamic got lost because TLJ played a Joker knock off. So Val Kilmer was not the only source of trouble for Schumacher while filming, TLJ was quite problematic too it seems.

This I do not buy. Tommy Lee Jones is a terrific actor who has done a great number of very serious performances...hell, even in MIB he was the straight man. No way was it just TLJ's decision to ham it up, he had to go by the script which called for a ton of lame lines and giggles. You know what also supports the idea that Schumacher was behind the hammy Two Face? The fact that Rick Baker originally designed a darker Two Face scarring but then Schumacher told him to make it more goofy looking. I've seen a pic of some of the previous designs, TLJ was even wearing a very cool looking red/black suit as Two Face but guess what...Schumacher threw it out in favor of the awful half cheetah suit(OMG I can't stand that suit).

Hey, I'm only going by what one of the screenwriters, Janet Scott Batchler, said. Read the article.

Burton also regarded WB seeking his approval before hiring Schumacher as an 'empty gesture'. They were going to do it with or without his consent.

I agree with you for the most part. Burton contributed little to nothing to BF. Meeting Schumacher was just his 'tip of the hat' or blessing, if you will. Tim Burton had no power on BF so obviously he had no control over who the director was. But in the end, it really doesn't even matter. Even if he did do a script meeting or two and cast a few people(such as Marlon Wayans, Billy Dee, and even Keaton returning)...in the end it was all thrown out. Batman Forever is not a Tim Burton film so the entire discussion is rather vapid.

 

[The Joker]

I remember hearing TLJ asked to ham it up as Two Face because he felt Carey was stealing the show with his OTT performance as Riddler.

 

[baerrtt]

I remember hearing TLJ asked to ham it up as Two Face because he felt Carey was stealing the show with his OTT performance as Riddler.

Joel did openly blast TLJ for giving Carrey a hard time on the set. And yes the reason given was that Jones, who was known for being very difficult, apparently took an instant disliking to this 'upstart' stealing the show and suitably hammed up his performance even more as a result.

 

[ALP]

I remember hearing TLJ asked to ham it up as Two Face because he felt Carey was stealing the show with his OTT performance as Riddler.

omg...

Well if that is true all I can do is shake my head. Jones has never been like that before. Carrey is always crazy, but you can barely even gets TLJ to smile in a film

 

[El Payaso]

The curious thing is that Jones's Two-Face ended up barely talking when he's with the Riddler in any scene. All he does are giggles and grunts. By the end of the movie he barely exists. Carrey did steal the show. And Jones had the chance to have done something that could have shined with a different light next to Carrey if he had kept his Two-Face serious. But if you try to pull a Carrey next to Carrey and you're not Carrey, then you're bound to fail.

 

[ALP]

Yeah my mistake about the first post then. I had no idea Joel and Tommy had a dispute on the set over it.

 

[Catman]

Burton also regarded WB seeking his approval before hiring Schumacher as an 'empty gesture'. They were going to do it with or without his consent.

On the DVD, Joel Schumacher said that he was aware of Burton being in-directly fired and that he wouldn't take the job unless Burton was okay with it. So, yes, WB did need Burton's approval. Then, Burton and Schumacher had lunch one day to discuss the matter and that's where Burton gave him his blessing. Then, together, they hired the Bachlors to pen the first draft.

Tommy Lee Jones is a terrific actor who has done a great number of very serious performances...hell, even in MIB he was the straight man.

Tommy Lee Jones grew up in the `50s when comics were at their silliest. So, as a result, he never took the genre seriously. He didn't make Two-Face campy to upstage Carrey. He did it because he felt above the material. As for Men in Black, he approached the role the same till Barry Sonnefield (the director) told him to play it straight...which wasn't easy. When shooting began, Lee insisted on being silly. Remember the opening scene with the Mexicans? Remember the restaurant scene after Will Smith had first been flashed by that memory eraser thing? Remember how goofy Tommy Lee Jones was in those? That's when him and Sonnefield were still fighting about in which direction to take the character.

 

[Macphisto]

On the DVD, Joel Schumacher said that he was aware of Burton being in-directly fired and that he wouldn't take the job unless Burton was okay with it. So, yes, WB did need Burton's approval. Then, Burton and Schumacher had lunch one day to discuss the matter and that's where Burton gave him his blessing. Then, together, they hired the Bachlors to pen the first draft.

To be fair, Joel Schumacher says a lot of things. He has a vivid imagination. He also claims that Keaton was fired by WB. It's no big deal. Life goes on.

 

[Catman]

To be fair, Joel Schumacher says a lot of things. He has a vivid imagination. He also claims that Keaton was fired by WB.

On the DVDs, he apologized for Batman & Robin, so I like to think that he was honest about everything.

 

[Spoonman]

To be fair, Joel Schumacher says a lot of things. He has a vivid imagination. He also claims that Keaton was fired by WB. It's no big deal. Life goes on.

And to be fair, Joel Schumacher seems like a very down to earth guy to me and I have no problem believing if not all, at least most of the things he says about the subject. I have no bias against the guy because of his run on the Batman films. I like both Kilmer and TLJ as actors but honestly I believe more in Schumacher's side of the story, they were very dificult not because they wanted a serious tone, they are difficult on their own right.

As for Schumacher saying WB fired Keaton, I don't know about that but the general feel I always had is that Schumacher never made a big issue of his creative fallout with Keaton because it was not his choice for the role anyway, he was obviously inhereting him but he wasn't trying to push him aside at the same time (Keats was Batman for WB and for millions of people allover the world), but when Keaton didn't roll with Schumacher, he didn't make a big deal about "the fallout" nor he tried to convince Keats to stay and just went with his option. Schumacher going with an actor almost a decade younger than Keaton and with a very different physical type shows that he was not really clinging on Keaton returning; worth of note is that I don't recall Schuamacher ever badmouthing Keats or something of sorts.

 

[ALP]

On the DVDs, he apologized for Batman & Robin, so I like to think that he was honest about everything.

Hahahaha...I was about to say the same thing.

Even he is embarrassed by B&R.

Anyway, I am glad Schumacher did not use Keaton. If he did, it would have felt he was playing too much on Burton(although supporters like Alfred and Gordon returning was fine). Also there is old talk that originally Schumacher wanted something darker and at first wanted to adapt Batman Year One but the studio thought more sequels would be a better idea. Anyone know more about this?

 

[Catman]

On the DVD he claims that he always wanted to do Batman: Year One and even Keaton said in 2005 that he was hoping for Forever to be an origin tale like Begins. But WB was insisting on a lighter film after the backlash that Returns got. Then, when Batman & Robin flopped he suggested Year One again but WB was done with Schumacher. However, they liked the idea of Year One enough to briefly hire Darren Aronofsky to do a draft.

 

[dude stannis]

On the DVDs, he apologized for Batman & Robin, so I like to think that he was honest about everything.

An apology, which was dubious in it's sincerity.

On the DVD he claims that he always wanted to do Batman: Year One and even Keaton said in 2005 that he was hoping for Forever to be an origin tale like Begins. But WB was insisting on a lighter film after the backlash that Returns got. Then, when Batman & Robin flopped he suggested Year One again but WB was done with Schumacher. However, they liked the idea of Year One enough to briefly hire Darren Aronofsky to do a draft.

I remember when Aronofsky was attached. Way back when. Frank Miller was co-writing the script with him at a rate of about one word a week. But everyone was happy. After a while details leaked about a African American jive talking Alfred and Batman driving a Lincoln Convertable. The 'net collectively went:

Wow, so many regulars here where probably too young to even use the internet back then. I feel so old.

 

[Spoonman]

Hahahaha...I was about to say the same thing.

Even he is embarrassed by B&R.

Anyway, I am glad Schumacher did not use Keaton. If he did, it would have felt he was playing too much on Burton(although supporters like Alfred and Gordon returning was fine). Also there is old talk that originally Schumacher wanted something darker and at first wanted to adapt Batman Year One but the studio thought more sequels would be a better idea. Anyone know more about this?

True, Schumcacher suggested Year One but the stuido didnt have an interest on doing that, they preffered to continue on the sequel pattern but with a lighter tone. After the succes of Forever Schumacher figured WB would let him do Year One which obviously didn't happen, they wanted an even lighter sequel and Schumacher went along with it (this is Scumacher biggest mistake IMO). After the B/R debacle, around 1998, Scumacher presented to WB a more elaborate pitch of Year One to reboot the franchise, but in some part of the road WB preffered to go with Darren Aronofsky as the director and of course...nothing else came out of that either. Thru the years there were more pitches and developmets by different people until it came down to Nolan finally getting hired for Batman Begins.

EDIT:

Beaten by Catman response

 

[Macphisto]

I've got no problem with Schumacher but he often contradicts himself and makes outrageous claims - whether that's Burton begging him to takeover ('Please, please, I don't want to do another one'), Keaton getting fired for making ridiculous demands or Val Kilmer living in a trailer park and spraying it with machine guns during the making of BF (Kilmer may have been difficult and childish, but he wasn't crazy; 'He says really horrible things,' Kilmer said later, 'he's a silly old man'). He deserves a gold star for putting up with Kilmer and Tommy Lee Jones, of course, but he sure likes to put his own dramatic spin on events.

 

[ALP]

Thanks for the answers guys. Having seen some of Schumacher's more serious films, I could have seen him doing a Year One correctly- I recall him saying he was a comic reader and always liked that one. Unfortunately that's now how things went. I wasn't around way back when but I'm sure the speculation around the late 90s/early 2000s was both fun and excruciating!

But what is this talk about Kilmer? He was difficult to work with? I guess that could have explained why he wasn't in B&R- I always thought he was pretty decent as Batman and good as Bruce Wayne. Certainly better than George Clooney who only made me want to throw up seeing him in a batsuit.

 

[Sawyer]

To me it seems like Burton said everything Batman he had to say with B89 and BR.

Maybe, but to be fair, people could say the same thing about Nolan with BB and TDK. Doesn't mean a third movie isn't more than welcome.

 

[Rebel]

Has Tim Burton and/or Micheal Keaton recently ever talked about or mentioned returning to the Batman franchise in the future?

 

[Two-Face]

Why would they? They did two films moved on. ^

 

[Two-Face]

Thanks for the answers guys. Having seen some of Schumacher's more serious films, I could have seen him doing a Year One correctly- I recall him saying he was a comic reader and always liked that one. Unfortunately that's now how things went. I wasn't around way back when but I'm sure the speculation around the late 90s/early 2000s was both fun and excruciating!

But what is this talk about Kilmer? He was difficult to work with? I guess that could have explained why he wasn't in B&R- I always thought he was pretty decent as Batman and good as Bruce Wayne. Certainly better than George Clooney who only made me want to throw up seeing him in a batsuit.

Kilmer said Joel never called him and he still thinks now why they didn't call him and Joel was mad at his agent that they took long so since he didn't hear from his agent he went to cast Clooney. I still think Kilmer didn't want any part to do with Batman or Joel that's why he went did The Saint

 

[dude stannis]

Has Tim Burton and/or Micheal Keaton recently ever talked about or mentioned returning to the Batman franchise in the future?

Yeah, neither do. Though I wish they'd teamed up for TDKR before Nolan took helm.

 

[DarkKnight88]

We already know what Burton's Mad Hatter would've looked like.

Fits in well with his other villains