What kind of silly billies are fig executives?

[Roughneck]

Now I am likely wrong and I await for you all to let me know.....

But this rant pertains to us.....collectors.

How many of us are there? Where can I get these numbers? I know that some of the 7th Kingdom stuff goes so far as to make 7000 of some of thier figs.....maybe 3500 is more common for them though, so I'll use that for my example, they make 3500 of the Rhino guy, and sell out and many many folks still want one and are unable to track them down? The cow guys were between 3500 and 5000 each, and I (ME) have thus far only been able to track down one (Of six) FTB aint got none.

What is all that saying? Well, I am going so far as to make the bold statement that there are at least five thousand action figure collectors out there....five thousand (or more) that are willing to buy a fig, that they have to go to (up to) nine different websites to find, and pay shipping (up to) nine times for a set of action figures with no movie, no comic, no cartoon, no breakfast cereal....no previous history or anything, just some awesome looking made up figures, with no advertizing, besides internet word of mouth.....that's five thouusand (or more) folks that I would call hardcore collectors.

So a line like Marvel Legends.....the Marvel universe of characters spans over 40 years of comics, ten years of movies, 40 years of cartoons, 10 years of great cartoons, t-shirts, shoes, board games, previous toylines from many childhoods, ....... well let's just say most folks in the world can pick Spider-man out of a lineup....there are sure a **** a lot more than five thousand (or more) folks picking these Marvel Legends figs up, especially since these are advertized, available in huge retail stores like Toys R us and Wal-mart.

To get to my main point of all this....well I refuse to believe that children are buying more of these figs than us collectors. And I want to know why these action figure executives can't understand this....Jesse Falcon seems to be able to understand....Now I know that they still need to follow the business of it all and stuff.....but then they go and say that the business is to have a popular or recognisable character in the line to help it sell....now I pose this questions to you guys....how many of you can go right now and with great ease buy yourself at least three X3 Beast figs? Hmmm?

You might think that the folks at Hasbro might be interested to look into sales numbers a little bit, they could call some folks at Diamond Select and see what the sales are like on the Marvel Select line. Does anyone have those numbers by the way? They might do a spit take or a double take or go full on cartoon and have thier eyes jump out of thier heads and grow to gargantuan sizes, and then when all is normal once again you might hear one of them say "Wow, and those are only sold in collectors stores and online"

I honestly lie awake at night and wonder why no one at Playmates has ever figures out that the recent ninja Turtle van released in the TMNT Movie line (In a six inch scale it is imeritive for me to add) has sold better than any other ninja turtle vehicle (all five inch scale) has before? Hell, I'm sure that they probably sold more of those vans than they did sets of four Ninja Turtles. Allow me to pose another question to you all here that would be effectivelly answered on the Fwoosh...how many of you purchased a Cowabunga Carl Party Van and own no other modern TMNT figs? Hmmm?

I also wonder, while trying to sleep, why no smaller companytries to capitolize on the 6 inch scale collectors market....Take the C.O.R.P.S. for example....these little 4 inch GIJoe rip offs made my some slightly-above-dollar-store-grade-quality company.....these are made for cheap and they sell for cheap. I know that a few folks bought some of them for the Super Hero Showdown figs...so why don't they kick it up a notch and hit the six inch scale? it would cost a bit more, but they could still make them cheaply enough for us to get six inch scale tanks and jeeps and guns...I know I'd buy them.

Another question I have asken many times is about the accessory packs....I see these wrestling figs with some great accessories from both TNA and WWE, made my Marvel Toys and Jakks Pacific respectively, but I can't justive shelling out $14 CAN and getting a fig I don't want just for a great looking 2x4 or boom box. But say they made a little pack or mini box with the boom Box, a TV, 2x4, set of weights, baseball bat and a couple other goodies, well I'd gladly pay over $20 for that.

The answer, no, to that question has come back many times with the explanation that they need to be able to sell the product to the stores and chains like TRU and WM are no confident that something like that would sell....well they could to it in conjunction with an online store as an online exclusive....but that's not in the spirit of my little rant here is it....Guess what toy stores have in common with toy companies?

Executives.

Bingo, these toy store executives are also putting some pretty heavy weight behind getting the shots called at the toy companies to determine what gets made....and these stores are also the same stores that currently sit jam packed with many many many many DCSH Superman figures. "No, we cannot put out these new figs until these old ones sell!" Seriously, what kind of mentality is that? The older figs are all bought up, all of our needs have been filled for them, no please give us the new ones that we crave, or else...wait.....Instead of waiting for the store to give me the new wave that they have had in the back for over a month I can just buy it online....Okay, I'm happy now I've gotten the figs I want.

Now a brief interlude to go on a side rant and take you to an alternate future that could be out present.....Okay so I bypassed the store and bought online, the TRU down the street lost business, they think that DCSH doesn't sell well, TRU cuts back thier orders, mattel sees that thier largest purchaser has cut back thier orders, and they make less figs, therefore less figs are available for all of us to get and the line dies out, leaving us unfulfilled.

What am I saying? I'm not telling you to not buy figs from online stores, I am telling the executives from companies and stores alike to pull thier heads out of thier asses and take a look at what the market really is like. Watch E-bay, the mother buying figs for her kids does not shop on e-bay, check sales and purchase numbers with online stores, online toy stores are a breeding ground for collectors, a little kid wants a fig he hoes he finds it in a store, he doesn't realize he has another option.

The collectors, who should by far be the target consumer of these figs buys these things wherever they can get them, and more often than not they find it easier to get them from an online retailer....especially when they live in Canada and retail stores don't get figs for another couple months after the USA? What's up with that, but I guess that rant is for another day.....Where was I? Oh yeah, online....collectors...how many members does the Fwoosh have? How many different websites are there dedicated to action figures? How can anyone believe that collectors are anything but the driving force behind these lines.

And playsets.....fans are demanding playsets, not even playsets....just 6 ionch scale dioramas, but no, they don't cost out, TRU won't put a giant box on a shelf with a hundred dollar price tag....at least that is the answer I have heard from people in the business....funny how I see $90 CAN AT-ATs and $80 CAN Wresting Rings being sold....but a six inch scaled playset/diorama is out of the question. I take you back a couple years....Diamond Select toys made a Six inch scale diorama of the Library from buffy the Vampire Slayer, it fetched a pricetag of around $60 and sold exclusively in Specialty stores, once again I don't have any of the sales numbers from this, but once again i will ask....how many of you own one of these Library sets and not a single BTVS figure? I have a few Buffy figs but not one of them is near that Library.

I can understand that a mother might now want to pay $100 to buy her bratty little child an Asteroid M Lunch Room diorama, but guess what, the collectors will buy them, and we have our own money, collectors are adults, and a bunch of us save money because we live with out folks. And as an added bonus there are plenty of whiey kids today that are spoiled rotten so their mothers will buy that for them anyway. Can you say win win?

So please, executives, use your heads.

 

[FEAR THE BAT]

Well said sir. What spawned this madness, BTW??

 

[Roughneck]

I Dunno.....just felt like writing an article or something.

 

[FEAR THE BAT]

Well, I liked it. If only we had a place for us to have these sorta things.

Hmmmm??

 

[Roughneck]

yeah.....I know.

 

[FEAR THE BAT]

Its alright bro. It'll get there.

 

[lars573]

But then there is the other side of the coin. Hasbro/Mattel/Toybiz doesn't really care about us. Sure they'll gladly take our money but that's not quite the point. The figs these guys produce aren't for us. They are for boys (and some girls) aged 6-12 years. That's who money (well parents money) they primarily want. We are added and not unwelcome bonus. So the next time you get in a tizzy over something one of the big guys does with their figs. Remember it's not for you, it's for FTB son. It's not for me, it's for my 7 and 10 yearold cousins.


As for numbers of collectors vs. kids. That depends. Certain lines are made for collectors like the movie maniacs, the Buffy ones, 7th kingdom. Basically if you can't buy it at TRU or other retailer it's for collectors. But for retail stuff. Hotwheels and Star Wars also have a higher older teen-Adult collector buyers than other stuff. Going by an out of 10 scale. I'd say ouf 10 SW and HW (and that McFarlane sports crap) sold 4 or 5 are going to collectors. For TF's and super hero stuff 3 tops.

 

[Saint553]

Huh. Woulda been great to have a site where I could have gotten an interview with Mattel execs about this kinds of things...hmmmm...gives me an idea. I will start an action figure site! Who's with me?

 

[Roughneck]

That's what I am saying, they should get thier crap in order and realize that we are they're customers.

ML and DCSH, yeah, these are made for the kids, but the majority of them are bought by us. They need to leard this and start making these for us.

 

[Saint553]

The biggest problem with toy companies gearing their stuff towards collectors is because retailers have a great deal of say in what is put on shelves. They don't care who buys a toy, as long as it gets bought.

 

[lars573]

That's what I am saying, they should get thier crap in order and realize that we are they're customers.

ML and DCSH, yeah, these are made for the kids, but the majority of them are bought by us. They need to leard this and start making these for us.

They already do that. Or haven't you heard of DC direct or Marvel select. I seriously doubt that adult collectors are even 50% of retail action figure sales.

 

[vog]

Just to clarify the Seventh Kingdom sales figures:

Xetheus - Limited to a production run of 1,000 (and it still took a year to sell all of the stock).
The rest of the Mynothecean variants each had production runs of 250.
Totaled up, seven different figures made for 2,500 total sales from FanEx 2006.

FanEx 2007 upped the production numbers quite a bit, but there was still only a production run of 700 for the rhino (and he had the largest production run of all the variants).

 

[FEAR THE BAT]

Are any of the FanEx 2007 figs sold out yet???

 

[vog]

i'm not really sure to be honest. i think the hippo, rhino, and orange elephant may all be sold out, but it's hard to tell with the large spread of sponsors and since the second shipment hasn't yet came in.

 

[Roughneck]

Oh...I added a zero.....it makes quite a difference actually

And Saint, I know that toy Stores have a great deal of influence....i know it's a long post but did you read it all? I mentioned that, those store exects need to wise up too....if they do things better they will sell more stuff....like I know that HML2 is here in Canada, I've seen it at some stores, but TRU won't put them out because all of thier ML pegs are still stocked up with HML1....if they would just take the HML1 down or slap them on a clearance shelf, then I would have bought my HML2 from them as opposed to getting them all online and TRU would have made more money.

 

[Saint553]

Oh...I added a zero.....it makes quite a difference actually

And Saint, I know that toy Stores have a great deal of influence....i know it's a long post but did you read it all? I mentioned that, those store exects need to wise up too....if they do things better they will sell more stuff....like I know that HML2 is here in Canada, I've seen it at some stores, but TRU won't put them out because all of thier ML pegs are still stocked up with HML1....if they would just take the HML1 down or slap them on a clearance shelf, then I would have bought my HML2 from them as opposed to getting them all online and TRU would have made more money.

I actually read as much as I could, but I was pretty drained last night after night school.

TRU probably wouldn't have over stocked shelves if they didn't order so much to meet what the felt was the demand. Would you rather them under-order to make sure there's shelf space?

They also wouldn't have made more money if they discounted other figures to get new ones in. They would have "lost" some, or just didn't get as much.

You're asking for sanity in action figure collecting, which I think is inherently insane. Nothing makes any sort of sense about it.

 

[Roughneck]

Stores put **** on clearance all the time....leavign them on the shelves and making no money is worse than marking them down and making some.

I actually like that Hasbro did a Recall on some HML1 and bought them back to make room for HML2...I just wish the recall would have come up north too.

But as I was saying, because they never made room for thier HML2, I ended up buying all of my HML2 online or in a specialty store, and therefore TRU got absolutely no money for them...I would have much rather preffered the win win situation of buying them at TRU becuase then TRU would have gotten my money, and gave positive feedback back to Hasbro (since Hasbro only listens to big chains) and I could have saven money and got them for retail, not had to pay shipping and had them right away as opposed to waiting by the mail box for two weeks.

 

[toddly6666]

I understand your pain ROUGHNECK, but it's only really hard for the adults that buy toys.

1. Growing up as a child of the 80s, I perfectly remember that all the popular toys - G.I. Joe, Transformers, M.A.S.K., Star Wars, He-Man, Thundercats, Secret Wars (if anything, I remember seeing a lot of Kangs, hehe), D.C. Superheros, wrestling figures, LEGO - shared one common trend in the toy shops: VARIETY. On the toy racks, there was always a variety of figures/toys on the shelves. I don't remember once where there would be a whole row of one repetive character on a rack. Racks were mixed and full of variety.

2. I'm aware of current children toy trends. You know what's being played with today by kids? Naruto, Pokeman/Yu-Gi-Oh, Ben 10, Power Rangers, TMNT, Wrestling Figures, Transformers, JLA, LEGO. And guess what is the shared common trend with these current popular toys that are bought by children? VARIETY!!

But guess what? Adults don't want Naruto or Power Rangers toys, so you are left to believe that the toy industry isn't being fair, because the toys you are seeking are Marvel Legends-type figures, which are pretty much made for adults or older children. I'm pissed off too the way the industry runs the BAF series figures/limited edition/hard to find figure system. I'm tired of seeing rows of Spidermans and Supermans on the racks, but remember, the toy industry isn't basing their profits on adult toy geeks. At least the toys we grew up with that are still popular today, such as TRANSFORMERS, Wrestling figures, Star Wars, and LEGO, are still pretty plentiful and full of variety on the toy racks.

As a toy collector as well, my dream too would be for all action figures to be highly-articulated at a 3 inch or 6 inch scale and everything in variety and not hard to find, but as long as there are collectors, the companies will take advantage. Adults cannot say no to "Limited Edition or Different Versions." It's an addiction and companies will take advantage of it, which financially makes sense. Tell me Roughneck, how many Spiderman figures do you have?

The toy industry makes consistent money from the kids with their cheap, plasticy, cartoony, unlimited figures, and the toy industry gains a bit more money making hard-to-find, fancy, high-scale figures (such as Marvel/Hasbro Legends) for adults costing a lot more than your typical Naruto fig. They don't have to make as many as the Naruto figs, because every adult collector is going to buy these high-end figs at any price, and no matter how hard they are to find. I'm assuming the hard-to-find fancy figures are more costly to make, so toy companies make less of them as well to avoid profit-loss I assume, and playing it safe? Adults that buy a consistent entertainment product are basically addicts. Toy collectors, DVD collectors, etc. - all the same addiction. They will just buy it all. I think the DVD industry is a bit more ballsy than the toy industry with their limited editions and re-release Special Edition marketing ploys, and people do eat these DVDs up. I think if the Marvel Legends toys were as plentiful and full of variety as Naruto figures, I do think adults would still buy them up even if they were easy to find or if they weren't marketed as Limited Edition. I feel like the Toy industry should trust the addiction of the consumer a bit more. The toy industry should also get more organized and stick to exact retail release dates. Why do they delay action figures? They think certain figures won't sell I guess so they keep on delaying? They should have more faith and not be so insecure, because the toy industry has the potential to make a lot more money if they made everyone happy and got more organized with their release dates.

 

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

Has anyone seen kids with toys lately? I see them stuck to a DS, PSP or a GBA SP... the closest thing to a kid asking for toys was a kid begging his mommy to buy him a John Cena Championship belt with the spinnng thingie... and the occasional Yu-Gi-Oh! card player... most of the toys are bought by collectors... I've been to a couple of toy stores and Naruto/Power Ranger/Ben 10 stuff is overcorwding the pegs, thus reducing the space for MLs and WWE figs...

 

[Roughneck]

I have many Spidery-man figures.

Mainly becuase I went hardcore with the initial Spider-man Classics, so that got me Spider-man, Black Spiderman, Damaged Spiderman, Classic Spider-man, Scarlet Spidey and Spiderman 2099, then got another in Urban Legends pack, then Sinister Six pack, then Fearsom Foes pack, and then two more in the Spider-man 2 packs with Abomination and Absorbing man, then an 18 Inch movie one, then technically my Stan Lee figure. and the one in MLX which i got at least three of because of the Senty Piece.

Yeah, I have many many many Spidey figs, but never once did I buy a Spidey figure from the SMC or AMC lines.

 

[toddly6666]

That's a lot of Spidey figures...and Roughneck, you are not alone. It's an addiction. I'm just the same - I somehow have ended up with nine ML-type Spidey figures. I don't need all of them. The toy industry can do whatever they want because adult toy buyers will buy it all! Even when they are marked down and in discount bins, adults as well as kids will buy figures they don't need or don't really want. The toy industry is making easy money. This industry doesn't have to create the limited/hard-to-find figure system in order to financially survive. They seem to do it for extra money. Unlike the sports card industry (which I worked in), they have to create the limited/hard-to-find pandemonium system in order to financially survive.

As an adult, I want my toys coming out fast and on time, even expecting something new to come out once a week a la DVDs. But that's not the way the toy industry works. My question to you or to anyone else who knows toy industry history - how were action figures released back in the 80s? Were new figures coming out every week or every month? Either way, I personally do remember looking foward to seeing new G.I. JOE figure series coming out - seeing those brand new G.I. JOE mini photos on the figure cardboard backs. There were so many G.I. JOE figures being released that I was usually satisfied by finding a figure that I wanted that would keep me happy for months. By the time, I caught up with all the figures I wanted, there was already a slew of other G.I. JOE figures that I wanted. Sure, kids may have short attention span, but kids still enjoy their toys more than adults do. By the time an adult collector finds the action figure one wants, they are already seeking out the other figure they are missing, and it repeats over and over till one's closets are spilling over with action figures...Furthermore, children don't know release dates of what action figures are coming out, such as adult collectors know. Adult collectors know what's coming out and are antsy waiting for them. I can get headaches thinking about how slow the Alex Ross Justice figures come out - I want them all and now! That's how the collector is. They see what figures will be coming out and they go crazy, go hording when they finally come out, and not even appreciate the ones they finally buy, because they are already anticipating what's coming out next in the future. It's a viscious cycle.

The main thing with my rantings is that action figures cannot be released weekly like DVDs. So that makes adult toy collectors go nuts - the long waits before action figures are restocked or new series coming out, and not following a strict release date schedule as DVDs do.

And for the people that think kids only play with video games, so did older generations growing up in the 80s. Go to a toy store, hang around all the action figure sections, and you will see that kids are playing with action figures. If anything, I only see adults creeping around Hasbro/Marvel Legends figure sections. It's not that kids don't play with action figures, it's that they aren't playing with the right ones, meaning the type of high quality figures that adults prefer(such as Habro/Marvel Legends). Go hang out in the power ranger, Star Wars, Transformers, Naruto, Wrestling figures, Ben 10 sections - those sections are packed with kids!

 

[HCpride]

Yeah, I have many many many Spidey figs, but never once did I buy a Spidey figure from the SMC or AMC lines.

never? :'(
not even mcfarlane spidey?
or the super poseable series 16 one

 

[Roughneck]

Why? The Best Spidey's get re-released in Box Sets or two packs.....and my Number one Spidey in my collection is still and always will be the First Red/Blue Spidey from the original SMC1 that predated ML....You know why? Sculpted Web Lines....and it looks really awesome.

 

[Roughneck]

Also Figs could be released on a weekly basis like DVDs.....Marvel Select and DC Direct (an others) all have a scheduel and get thier figs out on it....Maybe if they did more collectors lines and focused on us more, and only released figs in specialty stores they could put out one fig a week.

How cool would it have been in DCD had worked out stuff in advance and had thier **** in order and made a 52 line of toys and every week when you bought your issue of 52 you could also buy a fig from the series.

52 had more than 52 characters in that could have gotten figs...it would have been cool, especially cool if they could do it in conjunction with the issues and have someone specific for each week....like if it were a booster gold heavy issue...then put out Booster gold that week. I know that is a far off pipe dream....

figs take about six months from concepot to completion.......but

Let's use Marvel Legends as an example here....how many MLs and ML style figs are expection to hit in 2007?

Banshee, X3 Beast, Emma Frost, Hercules, Ultimate Iron Man, Planet Hulk, Lord Thor, Ultimate Wolverine, She Hulk, Quicksilver, Yellowjacket, Xorn, X3 Juggernaut, X3 Jean Grey, FA Captain America, Bucky, X3 Colossus, Danger, Black Knight, Marvel Girl, Hydra Agent, Cyclops, Black Bolt, Astonishing Beast, Nova, FA Daredevil, Punisher, Tigra, Mr Fantastic, Human Torch, The Thing, Susan Storm, Dr Doom, Namor, mole Man, Silver Surfer, Spider-man, Black Spider-man, doc Ock, Green Goblin, New Goblin, Sandman, Venom, Mary Jane, Domino, Cannonball, Marvel Girl, Cable and Black Queen.


That is 50, and I didn't include Diamond Emma, Silver Wolverine, Reissued Silver Surfer, Iron Spider, the upcoming Ultimate Wolverine Diamond Exclusive or any Varients...Y'kno what....Iron Spider should be in there....he was an all new fig.

So that's 51........One more fig...even if it's just a repaint, you think that guys would rather rush on six figs at a time or one?

I know it sounds odd, but they are making almost 52 figs a year why not stike up a deal with Diamond and get to putting these out one at a time in comic shops....better yet....Supscription.....If every week I could get a new Marvel Legend to my door that would rock....completing a new BAF ever other month.....Plus that cuts down on two packs and increases BAFs.

6 or 8 a year...and if the collectors get on this....well then that would rock, and they might be able to make enough money.

EDIT - I might just include the Stan Lee figure.....new Head, New Hands, new Feets....clothes...add that to the new stuff for She hulk that I am not counting.....that makes 52 new figs this year.

 

[SsM]

Why? The Best Spidey's get re-released in Box Sets or two packs.....and my Number one Spidey in my collection is still and always will be the First Red/Blue Spidey from the original SMC1 that predated ML....You know why? Sculpted Web Lines....and it looks really awesome.

That's also my main spidey