The Dark Knight What makes TDK so special?

[BH/HHH]

I think regarding TDKR; certain plot points would have stayed the same with the Joker included, such as - Dent's murderous rampage coming to light, Bruce's self-imposed exile, Gotham in peace time. I think Nolan would have borrowed more from TDKReturns when it comes to Batman and Joker's story beats, such as when Bruce returns as Batman the Joker is reawakened from his catatonic state.

I think Bane would have still been in the film because Nolan seemed pretty adamant on a physical threat for Batman. Bane would have still released all the prisoners from Blackgate and that's when the Joker would come into the mix again. I don't think Catwoman would have made the film, unfortunately, because Jonah probably wouldn't have had a reason to fill a Joker-less void and suggest her to Chris.

If Bane is still a LOS member Talia would have still been involved I'd like to think, especially to tie her to Ra's and ultimately full circle to BB. She most likely would have received more screen time as Talia I'd hope. But only way for that to work is to eliminate the John Blake character and successor angle completely. Then again, without Selina in the mix you could still have Blake in there perhaps?

A film with Bale's Batman; all worn out and weary, having to deal with Heath's Joker and Hardy's Bane would have been off the charts. I also think the 8 year gap would have been explained in greater detail and more pleasing to us Bat-fans, because with the Joker's involvement Nolan would have been more open to having Batman's career span longer during the gap between TDK and TDKR, even if it we don't necessarily see it play out on film.

Anyways I'm going off on a tangent. Gonna stop now.

A bloody good tangent though

 

[JackWhite]

A bloody good tangent though

Thanks a lot! t:

 

[shauner111]

I dont agree with the 8 year gap being filled out more. That doesn't make much sense. I still think that would have remained intact.

Catwoman would have stayed. Either Blake or Talia would have taken the cut. Jonah was adamant from the start to include Selina because the story would not feel complete without that character. And he was right. No Batman universe, Gotham universe can exist without certain characters. Joker and Catwoman are two of them.

When i think about it now, there's no reason why they all couldn't co-exist in the same film. I dont think Joker would have had such a big role as you think JackWhite. A few scenes tops. A shot of him waking up from his mighty slumber during Batmans return on the news, right when we see Gordon looking on from his bed (we also see Joker waking up from his chair). Another clip of Joker in Arkham contemplating his escape, during a montage where Bane releases the prisoners/patients from BlackGate & Arkham. Third, in the final act, i really think he would be the one killing Bane and not Catwoman. Showing a glimpse of Joker where he may or may not exit Arkham earlier on and then surprising the audience in the third act with him appearing behind Bane, shooting him in the head while Batman has a noose around his neck...that's what i'm talking about! Catwoman just chases Talia with her bat-pod while Batman tends to the Joker on a merry chase.

If anything Foley and Blake would be present but not nearly as much would be put into these characters. Especially Foley/Gordon scenes.

This would allow Nolan to cut down on the Batwing sequences a bit, putting a little more focus on the Cat-Pod versus Bomb-Truck chase, along with a big finale for Batman & Joker. Joker goes on a killing spree much like Dark Knight Returns, while trying to lead a wounded Batman into a trap. Unlike Returns, not half as much damage is done to Bats courtesy of Joker, but their destiny as "soulmates" meets a bitter end much like the Miller novel. Broken neck and all. But it all doesn't matter at that point, and the joke is really on Joker, not Batman this time. His obsession was all for nothing. Batman gets to the Batwing (oops..The Bat) and attempts to aid Catwoman in getting the bomb.

Nolan could have came up with a clever reason for Joker luring Batman away, probably connected to the truck somehow. And the time limit on the bomb could have been extended to 20 minutes instead of 11 or however long it was in the movie.

I would have ended it the same way. Exactly the same.

 

[JackWhite]

I won't go any further with the 8 year gap, I know how we both feel about that.

I don't think the Joker would have had a big role, but a pivotal role non the less. Joker killing Bane would have actually fit like a glove. I love your idea of a final showdown between Batman and Joker like in TDKReturns.

I honestly wouldn't want to imagine TDKR with the Joker, Cawoman, Bane, Talia and Blake. I think the film, as is, is bordering on being overstuffed. You'd have to take out one or maybe two characters to accommodate the Joker being thrown into the mix. I guess Talia would have to go, but then would Bane be the child of Al Gul lineage?

I'm kinda getting headache trying to figure out how you'd keep the same supporting cast but with the Joker. The film would definitely have to be longer, lol.

 

[Atlas]

Dark Knight Batman Leather Jacket makes TDK special.

 

[WingedAvenger89]

For starters, TDK was one of those rare films that after first viewing, hell even during first viewing ... being such an anxiety inducing thrill ride, along with how well it was acted, you could tell it was an INSTANT cinematic CLASSIC. That's extremely rare.

I'm a HUGE Batman fan, and loved BEGINS ... enjoyed RISES quite a bit, but even I didn't think those were classic films when I was viewing them. The Dark Knight transcends everything, including it's genre cliches, tropes, and limitations. Strived for something way more. And far exceeded expectations. I was just expecting to get a top tier comic book movie like BEGINS was, and TDK blows it out the water.

Absolute perfect storm of a movie.

The Dark Knight was the best film about America's place post 9/11, and it was a comic book, summer blockbuster movie.

This is what made the film so frightening, relevant, intelligent, and ultimately haunting. Great post BTW.

Coupled with Ledger's shocking performance, and untimely death. Amazing cinematography, brilliant score, engrossing visuals, absurd quality ensemble cast. It was a sequel built off an already great film, and takes that story to the next level. And on the surface it's just an action packed, faithful, entertaining film about The Batman v.s. The Joker, duking it out for the city's soul.

It's ultimately a better metaphor, and ballsy message about America than a character literally named Captain America. By far the best post 9/11 zeitgeist film about America's fears, anxities, and hopes for heroism.

TDKR attempted to touch on more relevant societal fears in America just 4x years later, painted into a corner by the quality of it's predecessor but it didn't hit quite the same, and by then the public had moved onto the flavor of the week being fun, whimsical, hollow fun films like Avengers without much on it's mind or need for thought.

 

[BatLobster]

I can already tell from just a few of your posts that I like you WingedAvenger89. Rock on.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

I don't think its special tbh Its a very good movie but I don't see what's the big deal about it specially when it has many of the problems people hate on Rises. If I had to guess, I think Heath Ledger's performance is the reason why it stands out.

 

[The Joker]

For starters, TDK was one of those rare films that after first viewing, hell even during first viewing ... being such an anxiety inducing thrill ride, along with how well it was acted, you could tell it was an INSTANT cinematic CLASSIC. That's extremely rare.

I'm a HUGE Batman fan, and loved BEGINS ... enjoyed RISES quite a bit, but even I didn't think those were classic films when I was viewing them. The Dark Knight transcends everything, including it's genre cliches, tropes, and limitations. Strived for something way more. And far exceeded expectations. I was just expecting to get a top tier comic book movie like BEGINS was, and TDK blows it out the water.

Absolute perfect storm of a movie.


This is what made the film so frightening, relevant, intelligent, and ultimately haunting. Great post BTW.

Coupled with Ledger's shocking performance, and untimely death. Amazing cinematography, brilliant score, engrossing visuals, absurd quality ensemble cast. It was a sequel built off an already great film, and takes that story to the next level. And on the surface it's just an action packed, faithful, entertaining film about The Batman v.s. The Joker, duking it out for the city's soul.

It's ultimately a better metaphor, and ballsy message about America than a character literally named Captain America. By far the best post 9/11 zeitgeist film about America's fears, anxities, and hopes for heroism.

TDKR attempted to touch on more relevant societal fears in America just 4x years later, painted into a corner by the quality of it's predecessor but it didn't hit quite the same, and by then the public had moved onto the flavor of the week being fun, whimsical, hollow fun films like Avengers without much on it's mind or need for thought.

 

[QueenChaos]

The Joker, makes it so special.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Heath and the ending. Not a perfect movie, but those two elements were incredibly memorable.

 

[lndsaico]

The soundtrack makes it special.

 

[batman1]

Watched it again. It is so well done. At the time it came out it was quite shocking! Really showed what Bruce/Batman has to go through.

 

[Squaremaster316]

I literally can't think of a single thing about this film that I would alter or cut, it's THAT well done. There isn't a single wasted or superfluous line, scene, visual, or performance throughout the entire 2 1/2 hour run time.

 

[ThePhantasm]

TDK has the most emotional heft of any film Nolan has done. For some reason many of his films seem sterile or detached. But TDK has a deep emotional undercurrent to it. Couple that with some archetypal characters, two of Batman's greatest villains, and a tragically heroic arc... its magnificent.

 

[batman1]

I literally can't think of a single thing about this film that I would alter or cut, it's THAT well done. There isn't a single wasted or superfluous line, scene, visual, or performance throughout the entire 2 1/2 hour run time.

What you said. It was perfectly one with the #1 hero in history.

 

[batman1]

TDK has the most emotional heft of any film Nolan has done. For some reason many of his films seem sterile or detached. But TDK has a deep emotional undercurrent to it. Couple that with some archetypal characters, two of Batman's greatest villains, and a tragically heroic arc... its magnificent.

The first time I watched it I was scared out of my mind! My emotions were pulled in all types of directions.

 

[ThePhantasm]

I literally can't think of a single thing about this film that I would alter or cut, it's THAT well done. There isn't a single wasted or superfluous line, scene, visual, or performance throughout the entire 2 1/2 hour run time.

I would trim the ferry sequence a bit. Nolan milked those meaningful stares between the passengers a bit too much.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I would trim the ferry sequence a bit. Nolan milked those meaningful stares between the passengers a bit too much.

And then he overcompensated in Rises by completely shutting the civilian perspective out of the film, giving the movie a detached feeling.

 

[the5timechamp]

I literally can't think of a single thing about this film that I would alter or cut, it's THAT well done. There isn't a single wasted or superfluous line, scene, visual, or performance throughout the entire 2 1/2 hour run time.

the fighting.. I would fix how "bad" it looks..

I would also "fix" the Rachel fall/save.. I would include something more definitive as to how Batman slowed the fall to save them....It wouldnt be so bad except that a "lesser" fall is later used to kill dent.

As for the voice, its not perfect but it becomes "distracting" on the final exchange with joker..

But hell that is nothing in compared with the holy crap excellence of everything else... I love the terminator 2/Heat filter..

Occupies my top spot with Mask of the Phantasm and Begins

 

[TeeKay]

Great script, characterization and great performances. It was was the pinnacle of superhero movies and still is to this day.

 

[batman1]

Great script, characterization and great performances. It was was the pinnacle of superhero movies and still is to this day.

The perfect storm. What you said about script, characterization, and performances, you rarely get all three even in good movies.

 

[shauner111]

Plus great marketing, and a edgy curiosity because of Ledger's death. You put everything together and you get a perfect storm for sure.

 

[batman1]

The first time I watched it I was scared out of my mind! My emotions were pulled in all types of directions.

I was too! I remember not knowing what was going to happen in every scene! It was quite emotional. And the way Joker was killing people it was real scarey!!

 

[Snow Queen]

I was too! I remember not knowing what was going to happen in every scene! It was quite emotional. And the way Joker was killing people it was real scarey!!

I'm glad to know you agree with yourself.