The Dark Knight What Nolan Changed

[dark_b]

Nolan's worst change was Bruce getting all his skill from mainly a single source (Ras).

1) It takes alot more than ninja mysticism to become Batman, the worlds greatest detective and the greatest powerless superhero. It took dozens of mentors each highly specialized in something Batman requires for his war on crime. Escape artistry from a master escape artist. Forensics from a master detective. Disguise from a disguise master. Countless styles of fighting all from masters. Sabotage and counter-surveillance again from ex-CIA and military. All this before most kids go to prom. This Alexander the Great type training is so exceptional that mixed with Bruce's natural genius it allows for near superhuman crime-fighting. Why limit this story to a single source? A premature Ras Al Ghul.

2) Ras is someone Batman should've been challenged by when he reached his prime when he was considered worthy successor. That was a story worth telling.

3) The gun is something Bruce hated the day his parents were killed. He trains from childhood specifically to avoid guns that's one of the biggest reasons he's so apt at weaponless combat. In the movie he considers using one until Joe Chill is shot. Major change that distorts the deep hatred Bruce has for guns.

this didnt happen in the movie. just watch it again.

 

[Mr. Earle]

I actually like the Heath Joker look better than the comics.

And i thought i was the only one! Hell to the yeah man!

 

[gwynplaine]

Yeah, Heath is also probably my favourite Joker ever too(including all medium). Definitely up there with Kane, Finger and Robinson's and of course Bolland's, in my humble opinion.

 

[[A]]

I think I concur.

 

[p4poetic]

Nolan's movies have been called the closest and best adaptation of the comics. However there were some changes he made in both movies that were different from what happened in comics:

1. Bruce trains with Ra's Al Ghul
2. The Wayne's attend an opera rather than watching a Zorro movie

Didn't the Waynes attend an opera in Burton's too?

 

[BatJeff7786]

Director's will always change things. The most important thing in adapting material, for me at least, is maintaining the integrity of the characters. And, despite the changes Nolan has made, he's done that perfectly. Essentially, this makes the films like brand new comics. As long as we believe the characters are who they are, then there is no reason to be upset by other alterations. The Batmobile changes all the time in the comics, artists draw characters differently. It's no different with filmmaking. So the changes do not bother me, because I know the characters I know and love are there.

 

[Lazlo Panaflex]

I'm not that concerned with the slight changes that Nolan and co. did since both comics and movies are two different mediums it's not all going to be the same and besides it would get pretty boring if everything in the movie was word for word as the comic otherwise why even bother to make it.

But it's stupid changes like Joel Schumacher did with adding nipples and flourescent neon lights to Gotham that I don't like because they don't add nothing to the story.

 

[El Payaso]

Didn't the Waynes attend an opera in Burton's too?

They went to the movies. But it wasn't Zorro. I can't remember the specific name but it had to do with "Frenzy."

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

Thwe only major criticism I have of the change to the Joker (I'm a bleached fan but the make-up is still good in my opinion) is actually not Nolan's fault at all. My problem now is that all the new people to Batman will think forever and a day that the Joker has always had makeup, kinda like how Penguin has only recently shook off the mutant stereotype from the Returns film. May not seem like a huge problem, but it is when you're a comic fan and a whole heap of people try and pretend they know more than you, and the first thing they say is "Why has the Joker got such good makeup in this panel?"

For emphasis, I will bold: This is not a criticism of the movie, but instead some of its fans

 

[Bathead]

The same thing happened with Batman '89, I heard quite a number of people saying "Who's Joe Chill? It was the Joker who killed Bruce Wayne's parents."

 

[gwynplaine]

I didn't like the Joker killing Bruce's parents in B89, but that guy who pulled the trigger (can't remember the actor's name) was great. He looked much more like the Joker than Jack did imo.

^^^^Hello, my avatar brother.

 

[metalhead_dave]

This is not a criticism of the Nolan film, as I really liked the scarring there also, but I hope to see one day the courtroom scene in media, not even BTAs did that.

Ummmm... Batman Forever?

Nolan's worst change was Bruce getting all his skill from mainly a single source (Ras).

*sigh* He was already skilled. Ras REFINED his skills. Wayne was already whooping people by the half dozen before Ras found him. He was gone seven years... I'd say for a year or two he was training with Ras.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

Ummmm... Batman Forever?

You call that a courtroom scene? That was a dodgy televised broadcast with no emotional gravitas and what looked more like cordial than acid. Plus it wasn't a scene. It was only about seven seconds.

*sigh* He was already skilled. Ras REFINED his skills. Wayne was already whooping people by the half dozen before Ras found him. He was gone seven years... I'd say for a year or two he was training with Ras.

I agree with this though. I think people don't realise this much, though I agree with the ones that say they didn't like that it only showed Ra's and hinted at other training. That's why I love Gotham Knight, it chronicles how he trains with Cassandra in India.

 

[Bathead]

I didn't like the Joker killing Bruce's parents in B89, but that guy who pulled the trigger (can't remember the actor's name) was great. He looked much more like the Joker than Jack did imo.

^^^^Hello, my avatar brother.

Funny enough that's exactly the same thing I thought.
Two great minds think alike, as our avatars might suggest. LOL

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

*sigh* He was already skilled. Ras REFINED his skills. Wayne was already whooping people by the half dozen before Ras found him. He was gone seven years... I'd say for a year or two he was training with Ras.

No it showed Bruce was a good street fighter before Ras. It takes alot more than that to become the world's greatest crime fighter. Such as training with dozens of highly specialized mentors in a wide array of crime fighting skills since the age of nine. Beating up a few thugs in prison is hardly any indication of this.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Yeah, Heath is also probably my favourite Joker ever too(including all medium). Definitely up there with Kane, Finger and Robinson's and of course Bolland's, in my humble opinion.

You mean the look or the total package? I felt this version of the Joker was the best in both aspects. The personality, especially, was just as I imagined for how the Joker could possibly exist in our world.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

You mean the look or the total package? I felt this version of the Joker was the best in both aspects. The personality, especially, was just as I imagined for how the Joker could possibly exist in our world.

An honest question here, do you mean better than the comics version, or superior to other media versions, or on a par with the comics version?

 

[metalhead_dave]

No it showed Bruce was a good street fighter before Ras. It takes alot more than that to become the world's greatest crime fighter. Such as training with dozens of highly specialized mentors in a wide array of crime fighting skills since the age of nine. Beating up a few thugs in prison is hardly any indication of this.

Ras: Tiger... Ju Jitsu... Panther... you are skilled. But this is not a dance.

Remember that line? It was said when Bruce kept switching styles in his second encounter with Ras. Even though none of them worked because Ras was a better fighter. But the point is, he WAS skilled.

And he didn't JUST beat up a few thugs. He beat up SIX prisoners ALL coming at him at once. I don't care how good of a street fighter you are, you REALLY have to know your stuff to survive a six on one slugfest, much LESS own the crap out of ALL six guys.

Oh, and one more quote.

Bruce: The man had a gun.

Ras: Would that stop you?

Bruce: I've had training.

Now, that could be attributed to the training he's had during the league of shadows... but considering he still looks totally green during that scene... I'm going to conclude that Ras is starting out with him, and he's been trained beforehand.

Either way, the complete ownage of those prisoners plus the scene where Bruce and Ras meet for the second time show that Bruce was OBVIOUSLY skilled before his meeting with Ras.

And besides... Begins and TDK is portraying a very young very GREEN Batman. And the comics Batman wasn't even the "world's greatest crime fighter" during the early days of his career. Ever read Year One? He wasn't perfect, he made mistakes. What made him the "world's greatest crime fighter" was the decade plus expierence on the field.

You call that a courtroom scene? That was a dodgy televised broadcast with no emotional gravitas and what looked more like cordial than acid. Plus it wasn't a scene. It was only about seven seconds.

I guess I should have used a smilie. That line was supposed to be tounge in cheek.t:

 

[CrimsonDeath]

I could've sworn there was more but I guess not. My question is did any of these changes bother you or not?

For me it didn't. I absolutely loved the storytelling. It was exciting to see Nolan's interpretation and it made for much stronger drama.

The changes in the interpretation did not bother me because they served the movie media perfectly. They brought out the essence of the characters I love.
And then in turn I loved Nolan's interpretation.

Hell, not even the comic books have stayed consistent in their interpretations and they may change yet again at the whims of the editorial. Why the hell would I be upset if the Joker wears make up over his scars to mock the scars? Isn't it the true spirit of the Joker to do such a thing with something so psychologically damaging? To mock what humans hold on to in life?
Much better than random hijinks for me. But fun does have it's place of course. Joker sure did have fun in the Nolan movie though.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Ras: Tiger... Ju Jitsu... Panther... you are skilled. But this is not a dance.

Remember that line? It was said when Bruce kept switching styles in his second encounter with Ras. Even though none of them worked because Ras was a better fighter. But the point is, he WAS skilled.

And he didn't JUST beat up a few thugs. He beat up SIX prisoners ALL coming at him at once. I don't care how good of a street fighter you are, you REALLY have to know your stuff to survive a six on one slugfest, much LESS own the crap out of ALL six guys.

Oh, and one more quote.

Bruce: The man had a gun.

Ras: Would that stop you?

Bruce: I've had training.

Now, that could be attributed to the training he's had during the league of shadows... but considering he still looks totally green during that scene... I'm going to conclude that Ras is starting out with him, and he's been trained beforehand.

Either way, the complete ownage of those prisoners plus the scene where Bruce and Ras meet for the second time show that Bruce was OBVIOUSLY skilled before his meeting with Ras.

And besides... Begins and TDK is portraying a very young very GREEN Batman. And the comics Batman wasn't even the "world's greatest crime fighter" during the early days of his career. Ever read Year One? He wasn't perfect, he made mistakes. What made him the "world's greatest crime fighter" was the decade plus expierence on the field.

Hand to hand combat is the only training Nolan suggest Bruce had before Ras. What about dozens of other specialties that Bruce Wayne learned from all over the world to become the world's greatest crime fighter. Nolan suggest all Bruce had was some hand to hand combat training before Ras gave him everything else. It's completely wrong.

Bruce has trained since nine in everything the ultimate crime fighter would need. Not just hand to hand combat.

Ras gets wat to much credit for Batman's wide array of skills and abilities.

 

[metalhead_dave]

Hand to hand combat is the only training Nolan suggest Bruce had before Ras. What about dozens of other specialties that Bruce Wayne learned from all over the world to become the world's greatest crime fighter. Nolan suggest all Bruce had was some hand to hand combat training before Ras gave him everything else. It's completely wrong.

Bruce has trained since nine in everything the ultimate crime fighter would need. Not just hand to hand combat.

Ras gets wat to much credit for Batman's wide array of skills and abilities.

I don't remember Ras teaching Wayne how to recreate a fingerprint from bullet fragments.

I don't remember Ras teaching Wayne how to track said fingerprint to the person's address(even if it is just a decoy).

I don't remember Ras teaching Wayne how to turn Fox's concept of using one cell phone's microphone as a digital map into a device that can use EVERY cell phone.

Yes, those are very nitpicky arguements, but there is no evidence to suggest that Wayne got ANY of that intellegence or creative thinking from Ras.

Oh and by the way... this statment...

Bruce has trained since nine in everything the ultimate crime fighter would need. Not just hand to hand combat.

... is NOT a fact like how you are presenting it. O'Neil's "Batman: The Man Who Falls" has Wayne starting his training at age 14.

Now I know that's nothing to swear by because the comics are retconned and added on and details contradict and such. But the fact that there is a COMIC out there that says he started his training at an age other than nine, means that YOUR argument that he trained at nine is at BEST disputable.

And further more, since all the retcons in comics seem to make the history contradict each other... and since Batman is a VERY plyable character who can be, and has been, interpretated in MANY different ways... what is so COMPLETELY WRONG about Nolan's change there other than your beliefe of Ras teaching Wayne everything he knows?

 

[the dmg]

3) The gun is something Bruce hated the day his parents were killed. He trains from childhood specifically to avoid guns that's one of the biggest reasons he's so apt at weaponless combat. In the movie he considers using one until Joe Chill is shot. Major change that distorts the deep hatred Bruce has for guns.

If I recall, Batman had used a gun in the early days before it was written out and has killed people in the comics with no remorse at all. It doesn't change a thing about Bruce not wanting to use guns at all.

 

[gwynplaine]

You mean the look or the total package? I felt this version of the Joker was the best in both aspects. The personality, especially, was just as I imagined for how the Joker could possibly exist in our world.

The total package. I had never seen the psychology of the character adressed in such a brilliant manner (and I love his look too, specially the makeup angle), even better than TKJ imo and I love TKJ. It's going to be hard in the future for other comic book movies to adress the relationship between a hero and his arch nemesis because it has been done so perfectly in TDK. How do you top that ?

 

[cryptic name]

He changed the fact that there's not gonna be a Robin. Also, thus far, there's no Batmobile either. I haven't read the comics, but I would assume I'm pretty safe with these two statements. Correct me if I'm wrong.

both movies have had the batmobile

 

[Infinity9999x]

They didn't have the joker dropped into the liquid that made his face like that and made him go crazy because of the surgeries after surgeries to get his face fixed when they couldn't. In this joker kept his appearance with makeup and kept it scarred. There was no time time he was on air with his makeup off.
And yes, they had to add a love interest for Bruce. I just don't get why they made him pimpin' in the other series with all these woman to be with, rather than be with one like Rachel Dawes.

Actually, it's never specified in the comics weather or not the chemicals messed with Joker's brain and made him insane, or seeing himself and realizing he was unalterably changed that made him insane, if he was insane before all this, or if it was a combination of these things.

We don't know for sure what made the Joker the way he is in the comics, we only know that at one point and time he fell into some chemicals that bleached his skin. His state of mind before the accident is still an unknown. So in that aspect, TDK Joker was more accurate to the comics by keeping it a mystery.