The Avengers What sort of MARKETING does THE AVENGERS need to bring in the GA that are not fans?

[Shadowlord X]

"Cap made as much money as it deserved, which is basically enough for a sequel. It wasn't a special effects extravaganza, it didn't have mind blowing action, and the only memorable thing about the villain was that his face looked like a skull.

I look forward to more Cap films but they are going to have to up their game in order to be considered a summer blockbuster. There is something wrong with your action movie when the only action you show in your commercials for several months is a bunch of dudes slowly busting through a door and firing off a couple of rounds."


I actually agree with this to a certain extent. As much as I LOVED the movie for the characters, concepts, and stories, the action spectacle was way too low par. They needed to do a lot more of a spectacle, especially coming on the heels of TF3. The average modern moviegoer cares very little for character.

 

[nogap87]

Louis Leterrier should have directed the second half of Cap.

 

[dony2012]

Add the fact that they will have the full resources of Disney at their disposal, and youve got a film that could be marvels first billion dollar movie.

"This way the general public that you brought in for the solo films will follow along into the film about your super-secret boy band."

But it's pretty much THE SAME audience for all of those movies.

So no, that doesn't mean it will make over a billion.

TDKR could make over a billion, but I don't think The Avengers will, especially since only Iron Man made decent numbers at the box office.

The Avengers could have the potential to make TOGETHER (With the benefit of being in 3D) something like what Spider-Man did ALONE (And without the benefit of being in 3D). like, $800 million, but nothing more.
That's because no one in this group is on the same level of popularity as Spider-Man or Batman.

 

[Marvel]

Just drive these everywhere...

 

[Spider-Vader]

"This way the general public that you brought in for the solo films will follow along into the film about your super-secret boy band."

But it's pretty much THE SAME audience for all of those movies.

So no, that doesn't mean it will make over a billion.

TDKR could make over a billion, but I don't think The Avengers will, especially since only Iron Man made decent numbers at the box office.

The Avengers could have the potential to make TOGETHER (With the benefit of being in 3D) something like what Spider-Man did ALONE (And without the benefit of being in 3D). like, $800 million, but nothing more.
That's because no one in this group is on the same level of popularity as Spider-Man or Batman.

I see two flaws here.

Iron Man did AMAZING! His two movies did almost as good as Spider-Man's movies. That's an achievement for a character who used to be a B-lister. Which leads into the second flaw. Iron Man is almost as popular as Spidey & Bats now. Honestly, I think he's getting really close to surpassing Wolverine as Marvel's second biggest character.

 

[dony2012]

I see two flaws here.

Iron Man did AMAZING! His two movies did almost as good as Spider-Man's movies. That's an achievement for a character who used to be a B-lister. Which leads into the second flaw. Iron Man is almost as popular as Spidey & Bats now. Honestly, I think he's getting really close to surpassing Wolverine as Marvel's second biggest character.

He did good, sure.

As good as Spider-Man or Batman?

No.

"Iron Man is almost as popular as Spidey & Bats now."


Iron Man Worldwide box office: $585,174,222

Iron Man 2: $623,933,331




Spider-Man: $821,708,551

The Dark Knight: $1,001,921,825




So TDK and SM did alot better than Iron Man. Almost double.

 

[Raiden]

I actually agree with this to a certain extent. As much as I LOVED the movie for the characters, concepts, and stories, the action spectacle was way too low par. They needed to do a lot more of a spectacle, especially coming on the heels of TF3. The average modern moviegoer cares very little for character.

I disagree. I think if a movie can make you care about the characters, it will strike a chord with the audience and they will end up supporting the movie, even if it takes a sequel to get the audience to really flock to see the movie. Yes, I know TF3 makes ton of money at the B.O., but that is due to ILM's mastery with their transforming CGI robots and the moviegoers can't get enough of it, but it isn't a recipe for success. If all a movie needs is to have big explosions and CGI extravaganza to make money, GL would've been a box-office bonanza already. I'd rather have Marvel's approach, which is making movies that focus on their heroes and make the audience fell in love with them. That's what they should do if they want long-term success.

 

[Shadowlord X]

He did good, sure.

As good as Spider-Man or Batman?

No.

"Iron Man is almost as popular as Spidey & Bats now."


Iron Man Worldwide box office: $585,174,222

Iron Man 2: $623,933,331




Spider-Man: $821,708,551

The Dark Knight: $1,001,921,825




So TDK and SM did alot better than Iron Man. Almost double.

tdk's popularity stems from Batman vs Joker; jokerless Batman movies are much less polpular; compare bb and tdk, and the original Batman and Batman returns.

Spiderman is actually the most popular hero as his movies are consistently at those BO levels regardless of who the villain is.

True IRON MAN is not at Spiderman levels but he's getting there. What he has accomplished in 2 movies after decades of GA obscurity is beyond impressive!

 

[dony2012]

tdk's popularity stems from Batman vs Joker; jokerless Batman movies are much less polpular; compare bb and tdk, and the original Batman and Batman returns.

Spiderman is actually the most popular hero as his movies are consistently at those BO levels regardless of who the villain is.

True IRON MAN is not at Spiderman levels but he's getting there. What he has accomplished in 2 movies after decades of GA obscurity is beyond impressive!

Yes, but he's the only one from The Avengers who's that popular.

That is why in many ways the GA will see this movie as Iron Man 2.5, and that is why I believe it's not going to make TDK numbers, but it could get close to SM numbers because of the 3D and the addition of more heroes.

 

[Dark Raven]

Iron Man hasn't been in the public consciousness long enough in the way he is currently. Spider-Man and Batman have. Given the same amount of time, I'm sure Iron Man could easily be up there as one of the most popular superheroes. He even seems to draw some people in who aren't typically comic book fans.

 

[nogap87]

Iron Man 2 made more money than the first but is nowhere near as popular or well received. In fact, the justification for its existence (besides money) hinges on The Avengers. If that movie fails to deliver than the only thing that can keep the GA attention on shellhead is a brilliant Iron Man 3.

The franchise is in a precarious situation.

 

[dony2012]

Iron Man 2 made more money than the first but is nowhere near as popular or well received. In fact, the justification for its existence (besides money) hinges on The Avengers. If that movie fails to deliver than the only thing that can keep the GA attention on shellhead is a brilliant Iron Man 3.

The franchise is in a precarious situation.

Yup.

What he said.

 

[KangConquers]

To anyone saying Avengers can’t land in the $800 M to $1 Billion range, consider the fact that it is not the first film in a franchise; it’s the culmination of a five film series that has grossed enough money to place it in the top 10 franchises of all time, the top two film which out grossed any Batman movie prior to The Dark Knight. The Marvel cinematic universe is currently the #10 highest grossing franchise of all time. This isn’t a peanut stand.

Avengers currently has a bunch of great things going for it; it’s coming off 3 acclaimed, successful franchise starters, and one high grossing sequel. Those movies have all had merchandise and marketing attached to them that has heightened awareness across the board about these characters; We’re no longer looking at Captain America and two unknown characters in a team like we would have been if Avengers happened in 2008. We’re now looking at Iron Man, arguably the #3 biggest name in Superherodom behind Spider-Man and Batman, Thor, and Captain America titular characters of a quite successful movie themselves.

Disney’s 2012 plan hinges on Avengers. John Carter looks like a bust, and Pixar, while always good in the box office, bounces between super blockbusters (Toy Story 3, Finding Nemo, Up) and more modest mid-sized Blockbusters (WALL-E, Cars, Monsters, Inc.) There’s no guarantee that Brave is going to be a huge $800- 1 Billion movie next year. Despite that early $175 M budget figure floating around, I’ve recently seen a published $260 M budget for Avengers, and would assume advertising will push this into the $400 M range.

This isn’t another mid-sized blockbuster; there are no Pirates, Potters, or Transformers coming out. Avengers is a big time player in the 2012 cinematic landscape. It’s guaranteed to be a top 3 grossing movie of the summer, and if the post 3D era has been any indicator, that will mean Billion Dollar or near Billion Dollar gross.

For what it's worth, many thought The Dark Knight would never make a billion and it did, not based on Ledger’s Joker, but based on the fact that all of the different factors coalesced into a perfect event movie (reception of the previous movie, great hype, great marketing, a legendary oscar winning performance.) The circumstances don’t have to be the same (Hiddleston doesn’t need to die; I’ve seen several people suggest that would make other movies gross big bucks, and that’s pedantic) but there has to be some hook for Avengers, and I believe the film as several.

And to reiterate, Avengers wouldn’t even need to sell as many tickets as Spider-Man 1 did to break 1 Billion dollars in today’s market. If this movie doesn’t break a billion or at least do upper-9 figures (more than 800 M) then it will have been a blown opportunity.

 

[Liam_H]

Your range of $800 to $1 billion is quite large. To me $800 million is reachable but not $1 billion. TDK reached that plateau because it had unusually good legs(domestically) for a summer blockbuster. I don't think Avengers will get the same type of legs at this point so international has to back it up, which the 3D will help very much.

 

[dony2012]

To anyone saying Avengers can’t land in the $800 M to $1 Billion range, consider the fact that it is not the first film in a franchise; it’s the culmination of a five film series that has grossed enough money to place it in the top 10 franchises of all time, the top two film which out grossed any Batman movie prior to The Dark Knight. The Marvel cinematic universe is currently the #10 highest grossing franchise of all time. This isn’t a peanut stand.

You do realize It's the same audience for all those movies, right?

Most of the people who saw the Iron Man films are the same people who saw Thor and Cap and TIH.

So maybe those movies will bring some more people to see it, but not many. Iron Man is still the main draw and attraction for this movie. So it's still going to be Iron Man 2.5 for most people, and that mean we could expec it to do a bit more than Iron Man 2, but that's it.

This isn’t another mid-sized blockbuster; there are no Pirates, Potters, or Transformers coming out. Avengers is a big time player in the 2012 cinematic landscape.

TDKR? Spider-Man?

The two most popular superheroes in the world!

Man In Black 3? A new big Tim Burton/Johnny Depp collaboration?

Johnny Depp and Will Smith are the two biggest stars in the world!

And even Battleship who will try to ride on the Transformers movies success...


Yup, no big time players on this summer...

 

[nogap87]

If we are going to treat every Marvel film as one big franchise than we have to consider the fact that each subsequent movie has failed to surpass it's predecessor. Some, both critically and financially. Marvel started off strong but hasn't done anything to set itself apart from any other studio. They're still riding the success of the first Iron Man.

Avengers would have a lot more buzz if Marvel was gaining a reputation for cranking out Pixar quality films. It doesn't help that half of the actors look indistinguishable from any other movie casting that has black suits as the main motif.

 

[Liam_H]

^I don't agree with that. SHIELD agents may look the same but the main 4 are very distinguishable from one another.

 

[nogap87]

^I don't agree with that. SHIELD agents may look the same but the main 4 are very distinguishable from one another.

I was referring to Widow, Hawkeye, Fury, and half of Thor. It's the typical "black is teh koolest and reelistic" mentality that has plagued Hollywood for far too long. It's just lazy.

 

[Liam_H]

Yea, that's why I said SHIELD agents. Widow, Hawkeye, Fury all looking similar is fine with me. Thor's costume is very representative of his actual look, its not like they turned his Cape black or anything. Besides the main Four is gonna be most of the focus of the heroes(or I expect it to be) so them all looking different is accomplished.

 

[nogap87]

The thing about the SHIELD agents is that one of them had a better costume in a previous movie, another one has zero in common (visually) with their 616 counterpart, and they just made Fury's suit black instead of dark blue for "teh koolness".

Thor's costume is literally half-assed.

 

[KangConquers]

You do realize It's the same audience for all those movies, right?

Most of the people who saw the Iron Man films are the same people who saw Thor and Cap and TIH.

So maybe those movies will bring some more people to see it, but not many. Iron Man is still the main draw and attraction for this movie. So it's still going to be Iron Man 2.5 for most people, and that mean we could expec it to do a bit more than Iron Man 2, but that's it.






TDKR? Spider-Man?

The two most popular superheroes in the world.

Man In Black 3? A new big Tim Burton/Johnny Depp collaboration?

Johnny Depp and Will Smith are the two biggest stars in the world.

And even Battleship who will try to ride on the Transformers movies success...


Yup, no big time players on this summer...

The fact that you are even considering Battleship a possible Top 3 makes it very hard to take your opinion seriously...I see that movie taking home the Green Lantern / Cowboys and Aliens No prize for biggest bomb of the summer next year.

The Amazing Spider-Man is a big risk. They took a franchise that was still very commercially viable and killed it, only to reboot it. I see this movie doing well but not quite as well as the original Spider-Man kick-off. I expect about 750 M ww for this.

The Dark Knight Rises is obviously one of the big movies out next summer, and probably will beat The Avengers. How that single handedly keeps Avengers out of the top 3 films next summer, you'll have to explain to me, since you seem to work on your own sense of logic.

Today's current movie market is much more geared towards characters than big actors. Will Smith hasn't had a big hit just based on being Will Smith since Hancock. Men in Black is a franchise that lay dormant for years and had a terrible second outting. I see MiB3 doing well, but not well enough to be a top 3 of the year.

Johnny Depp has only launched one franchise, and that franchise was based on a character of his that everyone fell in love with, not based on him being Johnny Depp. If you count Alice in Wonderland as being due to his rub, you're wrong. It was the first live adaptation of one of the most cherrished books of the last 150 years. Not saying Depp didn't help, but that wasn't the only reason it was big.

Depp's Public Enemies proves that not every project with his name on it is a runaway success, or a threat to the Avengers in the box office. Burton has also failed to strike commercial gold with Depp before. The Legend of Sleepy Hollow and The Corpse Bride failed to find the widespread acceptance you claim their next movie will.


My predicted top 5 for next summer:


01. The Dark Knight Rises: 1 B +
02. Avengers: $800 M- $1 B
03. Ice Age: Continental Drift- $800-900 M
04. Amazing Spider-Man: $650-800 M
05. MIB 3- $550-600 M

 

[KangConquers]

He did good, sure.

As good as Spider-Man or Batman?

No.

"Iron Man is almost as popular as Spidey & Bats now."


Iron Man Worldwide box office: $585,174,222

Iron Man 2: $623,933,331




Spider-Man: $821,708,551

The Dark Knight: $1,001,921,825




So TDK and SM did alot better than Iron Man. Almost double.

I have no idea how you justify calling $821.7 Million "almost double" $623.9 Million.

 

[dony2012]

Your range of $800 to $1 billion is quite large. To me $800 million is reachable but not $1 billion. TDK reached that plateau because it had unusually good legs(domestically) for a summer blockbuster. I don't think Avengers will get the same type of legs at this point so international has to back it up, which the 3D will help very much.

Now, let's see.

Iron Man 2 did $300M in both domestic and foreign marketing.

The Avengers, with the 3D advantage and the addition of more heroes could make $400M in both markets, so yeah... $800M.

Spider-Man numbers. Although... if Spider-Man 1 or 3 were in 3D they would have made ALOT MORE than The Avengers. Obviously more than a billion.

Actually, if you add inflation, the first Spider-Man movie today would have made over a billion, even without 3D.

 

[dony2012]

I have no idea how you justify calling $821.7 Million "almost double" $623.9 Million.

It is if you add inflation, obviously...

 

[Liam_H]

It's best not to bring inflation into this conversation, things can get pretty convoluted considering how much movie tickets have increased. I mean movie prices have gone up but $300 million domestic line for summer blockbusters have remained, so audience size has decreased which sort of balances things out.