What's So Bad About Superman Returns?

Discussion in 'Superman Returns' started by stargazer, Aug 31, 2011.

  1. AVEITWITHJAMON

    AVEITWITHJAMON Cloud kicks ass

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    Very interesting stuff, I thought a few shots in MOS looked familiar. I loved MOS but I still love Superman Returns as well, it has a lot of heart and it presented Superman in situations we hadnt seen before, him having a son and feeling lonely on Earth. Hell, the theme of the movie is spelt out on the scrabble board at the start, alienation.
     
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  2. Cat Woman

    Cat Woman New Member

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    I just watched SR for the first time in years and I honestly don't understand the criticism this movie got or why it flopped and then caused the series to be rebooted yet again.

    I think it's a stunningly beautiful film. The cast were wonderful, the noir look was gorgeous, and I just don't see why people had such a problem with Jason.

    I hated Man of Steel (and I really wanted to like it, as I like the idea of a darker/more realistic Superman). I am going to be forever bitter that SR wasn't a success and didn't get followed up with at least a couple of sequels.
     
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  3. AVEITWITHJAMON

    AVEITWITHJAMON Cloud kicks ass

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    Couldnt agree more with bolded, I still love SR and still watch it once every few months, it was the movie that got me into Superman in a big way, and it will always have a special place in my heart.

    I loved MOS also though, and think it was a better starting off point for a franchise than SR.
     
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  4. lc23

    lc23 Fan of Steel

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    I found watching Superman Returns to be a painful experience. I felt like the explanation that it was a homage to the Donner films was to cover for the producer/director/screenwriters' laziness and lack of creativity by using someone else's translation of Superman onto the big screen rather than doing the "legwork" of coming up with their own interpretation of Superman source material.

    With the exception of maybe on or two scenes, the overall world in SR felt unnatural and closed off. It was like Metropolis was stuck in a snow globe with no one realizing it, not even Superman. Everything read false and like too much of a stage/set, rather than real world settings, especially during outdoor scenes.

    My issues with the plot, characterizations, and actors aside (minor things, I know), what made SR so terrible for me was I felt like I was watching an updated CG-enhanced STM clone that had none of the heart or charm that made the original so great. I know Singer and co. really tried, but it didn't work for me.
     
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  5. AVEITWITHJAMON

    AVEITWITHJAMON Cloud kicks ass

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    ^Well, Singer was fan of the Donner movies, not the comics, and back in 2006, I think he would have been criticised for not using things from the Donnerverse so he tried to please everyone by praising the old movies while trying to bring new fans to the character and universe.

    WB wanted this back then as well remember, as it was them who greenlit Singers pitch about paying homage to the old movies. I still give him credit for trying something different in comic book movies, and I still love the movie personally, and would have liked to see were any sequel/s went, but it didnt happen. Thankfully I loved MOS as well.
     
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  6. sf2

    sf2 Well-Known Member

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    Problem is SR has too many bottlenecks for it to move forward. Instead of expanding the story development, SR was actually shrinking itself. If u get what I mean.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 15, 2013
  7. AVEITWITHJAMON

    AVEITWITHJAMON Cloud kicks ass

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    It didnt do the best in setting up sequels, thats for sure, I mean the situation with the kid and Lois would have to be resolved at some point, though apparently in the sequel Jason was going to be killed by Superman.

    I just think Singers love for the Donner movies was a little too much. We know he read Superman comics as well, plenty of scenes in the movie were from them, but I think he could have done with reading a few more just to get more of a handle on things.

    I love the movie as is, and always will, but some things should have been changed.
     
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  8. CGHulk

    CGHulk Well-Known Member

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    What's So Bad About Superman Returns?

    Superman trying to steal Mommy away from Daddy.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 18, 2013
  9. Morbius

    Morbius Living Vampire

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    It felt like it was trying to be a sequel to the original movies but then it made things very confusing with a list of events that clearly could not have happened in that original universe
     
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  10. marvelrobbins

    marvelrobbins Well-Known Member

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    I like Returns and don't share the hate others do

    Superman as deadbeat dad-Uh he never even knew he had a son till late in
    film.

    Superman as stalker-Superman has long history of following lois.Why else do
    you think he always saves her.In returns he followes her to find her feelings
    for him.After he hears lois say she doesn't love him he goes on

    Film was boring-If you think It was boring then you must think original film was
    boring too

    Superman Returns was not a batman & Robin fiasco.It underperformed WB's
    expections.
     
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  11. AVEITWITHJAMON

    AVEITWITHJAMON Cloud kicks ass

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    ^It is no were near B&R level, I dont care what anyone says. For me, it is still one of my favourite comic book movies ever, I really like how it presents Superman as more understated, thoughtful and subtle, as he has been portrayed sometimes in the comics, For Tomorrow comes to mind straight away.

    I loved that it delved into Supermans feelings of alienation as well, which was spelled out as the theme of the movie at the start on the scrabble board. It gives him problems he cant solve with his powers, throw in some amazing scene's and emotions in the movie and its why I love it so much. It was also the Superman movie that got me really into the character and reading the comics, which I have continued to this day.

    It wasnt perfect, no movie, and it made some pretty big mistakes, but overall its still a great CBM to me.
     
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  12. Senator Pleasury

    Senator Pleasury Well-Known Member

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    Ah, he was in love and asked her what was the situation. Lois said no and Superman respected that.
     
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  13. tomahawk

    tomahawk Member

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    I felt frustrated at Superman Returns.

    I was bored with Man Of Steel.

    The frustration was better as it made me analyse what it was about the movie that frustrated me, which paradoxically made me appreciate what it was trying to achieve even more.
     
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  14. AVEITWITHJAMON

    AVEITWITHJAMON Cloud kicks ass

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    I never felt frustrated with SR, I liked the movie from the start, though it did grow on me heavily with repeat viewings as well.

    I watched it the other day and it still has tons of heart and emotion and makes you care for the characters. It references the comics a lot more than people are willing to admit as well but also does its own thing sometimes, but which CBM doesnt? This was following the Donner movies and Superman did some questionable things in them but when he does in SR its totally out of character for some reason. I dont get it personally.

    There are still so many amazing moments in the movie though, and its still one of my favourite CBM's. I loved MOS, but am cautious about Superman vs Batman as I think it is too soon to make that movie personally.
     
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  15. tomahawk

    tomahawk Member

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    Yeah I liked it, and by the third viewing I could not understand the dislike. But it removed too much set up in order to push that "heart" to the forefront. The deleted scenes and the script show us that their was more setup which would have helped us connect better.
    The theatrical cut relied on us being already familiar with the characters, but the time it took to make this film and the new actors required meant that we should have been re-introduced to these characters in a more conventional origin way, even if it was a requel.
     
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  16. AVEITWITHJAMON

    AVEITWITHJAMON Cloud kicks ass

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    ^Thats why I hope we get the extended cut one day, I just think the movie will flow better and some scenes already in the movie will have more impact. I love the theatrical cut, always, but an EE could make the movie even more special.
     
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  17. elgaz

    elgaz Well-Known Member

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    It's kinda ironic that some people who are hyper-critical of Man Of Steel are focusing so much on the ending, where Superman snaps Zod's neck. "Superman would never do that!" .... ."That's totally not the character of Superman!" ....................... and so on.

    Superman Returns changed the character substantially too, if that's the case. Superman spying on Lois, disappearing for 5 years, not letting his child know that he is his father, and trying to woo Lois again when she has a partner .......... well, none of these things are arguably things which Superman would typically do. There's a selfishness to the character in SR which just didn't strike a chord with me, never mind my other criticisms of the film.
     
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  18. Micromind

    Micromind New World New Rules

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    I don't think that SR has a selfish Superman, if he was ..then he would have told Jason that he was his father, he would have asked Lois to forget about Richard.

    He was not doing anything like that, he tried to talk to lois after Jimmy told Clark that Lois was still in love with "You know who", and that she was still in the"prolonged engagement", meaning that Lois could not forget Superman and she kept postponing marriage to Richard.

    The last scene in SR is emotional where Supes talks to Jason while he is sleeping about "Father becomes the son", which showed that he became aware about the existence of his son only towards the end of the movie.
     
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  19. Senator Pleasury

    Senator Pleasury Well-Known Member

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    First off, your argument makes sense only if the very same people complaining about Superman killing in MOS justify Superman's act5ions is SR.

    I'm glad they took the risk to take Superman to the extreme of being forced to kill. I'd have done later on in the series but ok. Now, I'm not too sure about Superman's "official" code of ethics in terms of romantic relationships, but he was sure Lois was still in love with him (as she had refused to marry Richard and in fact marriage was a subject that made her uncomfortable), but as soon as Lois said 'no,' Superman accepted that and didn't try any further.

    As for Superman leaving, there's a precedent in SII. But it's clear that hole thing needed to be much more justified.

    As for the child, he was very young to try and tell him about his real father. Plus, Superman gets this idea that he can't get too close to his loved ones because they might suffer if his enemies try to attack him.

    But, as I said, Superman in a relationship and his decisions can be questionable. What nothing could justify is Pa Kent committing suicide and Clark doing absolutely nothing to prevent his death. But that is not overlooking SR's flaws.
     
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  20. charl_huntress

    charl_huntress Well-Known Member

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    OMG...still talking about this...lol.
     
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  21. Senator Pleasury

    Senator Pleasury Well-Known Member

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    :joker::up:
     
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  22. AVEITWITHJAMON

    AVEITWITHJAMON Cloud kicks ass

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    No, I wouldnt describe the character in SR as selfish at all, he never forced himself onto Lois or into her life in a way which would have effected it. He was given strong hints that she still loved Superman early on in the movie when he 1st comes back.

    He then goes about trying to find out if this is true or not. This makes him do some questionable things, like listening to Lois' and Richards conversation, but he had been away for 5 years and wanted to see the woman he loved as much as possible. She tells Richard she didnt love him, he flies away and leaves it at that.

    Then when he gets the chance, he confronts Lois himself on the rooftop, there she tells him essentially she is still with Richard, after that Superman drop it for the rest of the movie. Not selfish, he just wanted to know were he stood, which is what people in love do.

    Also, he went to Kryptons ruins because he felt alone in the universe, the whole theme of the movie is alienation and it is spelled out on the scrabble board at the farm at the start. He feels alone, and then to get back and realise that he pushed away the one person who loves him more than anything was gut wrenching to him, hence him trying to repair things with Lois. To then find out at the end that there WAS someone like him on Earth afterall was one of the few moments of genuine happiness he had the film. He has a son, someone who will experience all Kal-El did when he was growing up, he wasnt alienated from the human race anymore, he was more tied to it than ever through having a half kryptonian/half human son and after searching for all those years finally found his place in the universe. It was touching stuff to me.
     
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  23. Joshua_B

    Joshua_B Well-Known Member

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    My biggest overall problem with "Returns" is that it was an 80% rehash of the first two Reeve films. There's wasn't nearly enough originality in it.
     
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  24. Senator Pleasury

    Senator Pleasury Well-Known Member

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    MOS was also a rehash of STM and SII.

    But both movies had new things. I don't remember Superman having a son, breaking up with Lois or a Kryptonite continent in Donner movies.
     
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  25. AVEITWITHJAMON

    AVEITWITHJAMON Cloud kicks ass

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    ^I think MOS paid homage a little more subtly than SR did though, I can understand some peoples frustrations with how much of STM SR used. I personally liked it, but for people wanting something new I think MOS did it just right.
     
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