Superman Returns What's So Bad About Superman Returns?

[John Lambert]

One thing people ignore is that Superman Returns was not successful because it was a good movie, it was Successful because it was a Superman Movie. Superman just has that draw, so much that even people who cringed at the idea of Superman having an illegitimate child with a woman who does not know who he really is, still largely went to see it.

 

[John Lambert]

I think the MOS costume is superior. But SR's was better than STM's, L&C's, etc.

Unless we mean "the disguise that allows Clark to live normal", then I have to go with L&C over the Donner/Singer version. MOS avoids really showing us the disguise. Clark the reporter shows up only at the end, and the person it normally have to work on the most already knows The Secret, so it might just work. We will have to wait for MOS2 to know for sure.

 

[John Lambert]

Kudos to whoever pointed out that Superman is not a deadbeat dad, a DB is a choice, Superman/Clark had no choice because he didn't have all the information. Also I like to pretend Lois knew who her sons father was and met Richard either while she was clearly pregnant or after the baby was born.

That is totally junk. He knew he slept with Lois, but did not bother to see what the consequences would be. He just is too much up a wimp to face up to it, so instead he runs off to Krypton to avoid facing his responsibilies, including the one of telling Lois who he really is before he sleeps with her.

"Lois and Clark" Clark was a lunkhead because he proposed before telling Lois, but at least he tells her before he ever sleeps with her.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

That is totally junk. He knew he slept with Lois, but did not bother to see what the consequences would be. He just is too much up a wimp to face up to it, so instead he runs off to Krypton to avoid facing his responsibilies, including the one of telling Lois who he really is before he sleeps with her.

No, when you don't know you're a father you don't know you have responsibilities and therefore you cannot "run off" to avoid something you don't know is there.

And about him telling her he's Clark... did you ever see Superman II?

 

[John Lambert]

No, when you don't know you're a father you don't know you have responsibilities and therefore you cannot "run off" to avoid something you don't know is there.

And about him telling her he's Clark... did you ever see Superman II?

Since Lois does not go all "you raped me" on him when she finds out that Jason is his son, it is clear the conception did not happen per Superman II.

I still hold any man who has sex with a women should expect pregnancy to result, and should be ready to take responsibility for it.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

Kudos to whoever pointed out that Superman is not a deadbeat dad, a DB is a choice, Superman/Clark had no choice because he didn't have all the information. Also I like to pretend Lois knew who her sons father was and met Richard either while she was clearly pregnant or after the baby was born.

That would be me I think. Both "deadbeat dad" and "peeping Tom" are terms heavily misused for this movie.


************************************

Since Lois does not go all "you raped me" on him when she finds out that Jason is his son, it is clear the conception did not happen per Superman II.

That's why I said "And about him telling her he's Clark." I agree that the conception didn't happen in SII (although it's not clear). But I was talking about why he didn't tell her he's Clark.

I still hold any man who has sex with a women should expect pregnancy to result, and should be ready to take responsibility for it.

Well, I have had sex many times and never expected pregnancy. Because I took precautions. Now, I don't know what's the Kryptonian biological ways of this process but one thing I'll say in your favor: same as the Kryptonian possible survivors and why Superman didn't say good-bye, this should have been much better explained. It's part of my own criticism about the movie.

 

[LL2K2]

Oh boy...time once again to clear up some common misconceptions regarding this film:

Kate Bosworth was 22, so what, she had a child at 17, and was already an established reporter before she exited high school? That does not work.

The actress herself was 22. The character was at least in her early 30s.

Now, if they had it, Superboy and Lois hooked up as teenagers, and then he heard about his home planet, and left, then at least that casting decision would have made sense.

No, it wouldn't. Continuing on, both actors were in their 20s (Bosworth, as mentioned above, was 22 when she was cast; Routh was 25), but they were playing characters at least 10 years older than their chronological ages.

It would not have helped Superman being an irresponsible dead-beat dad, but at least the casting would have been believable. Maybe. Although with 18-year-olds often cast as 15-year-olds, we are lucky if people even see a 22-year-old as a 22-year-old.

Which he was not, because he had no idea the kid might be his until near the end of the movie. That's likely what Lois whispered into his ear as he lay in a coma.

Deadbeats don't care. They don't want anything to do with the child/children nor their mother/partner. They don't visit them. They knowingly and willingly refuse to provide child support or other monetary assistance.

 

[jedisprite]

The worst part about Superman Returns is it's perception in the general public.

 

[Vid Electricz]

There were many "issues" with some of the ideas in Superman Returns (Supes leaving, the super son, etc...), but overall, the story was well told and executed in a way that was emotionally satisfying, even if one disagreed with some of the creative choices.

MOS on the other hand had many fundamental problems with the script/story and characters that hindered the entire film.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

I loved how they made Superman emotional. That's one thing I loved about Superman Returns.

That whole scene with him listening to Lois say she doesn't love him anymore to Jor-El telling him "even though you've been raised as a human you're not one of them"

John Ottman's score during this part was fantastic.

[YT]4R7A4bEVKHk[/YT]

 

[Micromind]

Some points that should be noted -

* The term "Deadbeat dad" does not apply to Superman as he was not aware of the child's existence.

* Lois was not married to Richard White, they were in a "prolonged engagement", she could not forget about Superman and she still had feelings for Superman, that was the reason why she did not marry Richard.

* Lois Lane raised Jason, not Richard White.

I loved how they made Superman emotional. That's one thing I loved about Superman Returns.

That whole scene with him listening to Lois say she doesn't love him anymore to Jor-El telling him "even though you've been raised as a human you're not one of them"

John Ottman's score during this part was fantastic.

[YT]4R7A4bEVKHk[/YT]

Agreed.

 

[Micromind]

One thing people ignore is that Superman Returns was not successful because it was a good movie, it was Successful because it was a Superman Movie.

Superman just has that draw, so much that even people who cringed at the idea of Superman having an illegitimate child with a woman who does not know who he really is, still largely went to see it.

So, why did Superman III and Superman IV failed at Box office ?

 

[Senator Pleasury]

There were many "issues" with some of the ideas in Superman Returns (Supes leaving, the super son, etc...), but overall, the story was well told and executed in a way that was emotionally satisfying, even if one disagreed with some of the creative choices.

I agree with you. Even when the premise should have been explained lots more, the final result is satisfying and truly moving.

I loved how they made Superman emotional. That's one thing I loved about Superman Returns.

That whole scene with him listening to Lois say she doesn't love him anymore to Jor-El telling him "even though you've been raised as a human you're not one of them"

John Ottman's score during this part was fantastic.

[YT]4R7A4bEVKHk[/YT]

SR was when they took Donner premises and gave them a touch of realism. Jor-el had predicted he would feel alone, and even when in Donner movies we had a bit of that, it was SR who showed us how alone he could feel among humans.

Some points that should be noted -

* The term "Deadbeat dad" does not apply to Superman as he was not aware of the child's existence.

* Lois was not married to Richard White, they were in a "prolonged engagement", she could not forget about Superman and she still had feelings for Superman, that was the reason why she did not marry Richard.

* Lois Lane raised Jason, not Richard White.

THANKS. Thanks for noticing all that. Yes, the terms are mistakenly used and yes, Lois "hated" the big question. She was not in love with Richard the way she was with Superman.

 

[Xak-Ell]

just watched superman returns in the order its supposed to be set in (superman, superman II, superman returns). i think its great. nice story. love the special effects. to me the suit looks nice. and the whole thing with superman having a son felt like a really nice set up for a nice sequel. sad that its such an underrated movie. gets more hate than it deserves

 

[Lantern Venom]

I just rewatched the film and it wasn't bad. Yet there were two apsects that really hindered the movie.

Kevin Spacey gave an amazing performance, but I don't think Lex Luthor worked well in this film. That character works better in long-arcing stories, where he might also be pulling the strings of super-powered villains to oppose Superman. In a 2.5 hr film, there just isn't enough time to show the level of genius it takes to oppose a nearly invulnerable hero.

Superman's appearance came off as dated and silly. The costume was so tight that Routh looked skinny and the coloring looked like it belonged on the Adam West Batman series.

 

[Xak-Ell]

I know that many fans don't like SR, and many will like MOS, still, SR was a good movie.

Now, Zack Snyder is great at creating visually good looking scenes, still many scenes from SR looked good, I think that there are some shots in MOS that may remind some fans of SR. Visually similar looking scenes (even though in some cases, the context will be different.)

Also, homage to Donner movies in MOS.

dear rao , how did i not notice this?

 

[Xak-Ell]

to everyone saying "how could lois and clark have a kid? they never had sex"...did you even watch superman II? and the whole thing about him being too depressed is a bad complaint. i mean, i know the scene was cut from the film, but kal had his hopes up after scientist found a planet in the far reaches of the universe. he went to find it and the "planet" was just an asteroid OF krypton. just saying, that makes a guy feel pretty sad. then he comes home to a place where it seems everyone resents you. c'mon people

 

[John Lambert]

They cast an actor for Jimmy Olsen who was older than the one they had playing Lois. Anyway, you can't cast a 22-year-old and have us accept them as a 30+ year old, when most of the time they cast people in roles younger than they are.

Superman is a deadbeat dad. With his Super perceptions there is no way he did not realize that Lois was pregnant. Anyway, just the idea that Superman would abandon the earth does not work.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

They cast an actor for Jimmy Olsen who was older than the one they had playing Lois. Anyway, you can't cast a 22-year-old and have us accept them as a 30+ year old, when most of the time they cast people in roles younger than they are.

You know how it is, Brandon Routh wasn't even Kryptonian! They tried to make us believe he was.

Superman is a deadbeat dad.

No, he's not.

With his Super perceptions there is no way he did not realize that Lois was pregnant.

You mean, if he ever tried to9 check that out.

It's like he didn't know whether Lois Lane had lung cancer in STM until he used his X-ray vision.

Anyway, just the idea that Superman would abandon the earth does not work.

Like when he abandoned his mission in SII? Or Spider-man decided to quit in SM2? Or Batman was eager to quit in TDK? I think that kind of story might be very interesting.

 

[Blake II]

Superman Returns was the epitome of cheesiness.

Too cheesy to take serious. And the costume looked ridiculous.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

Superman Returns was the epitome of cheesiness.

Too cheesy to take serious. And the costume looked ridiculous.

Nah. Batman and Robin or Spider-man 3 is cheese's pinnacle.

 

[66 Face]

I thought it was OK but they went to much towards the Donner movies instead of taking hints from it and doing their own thing.

IMO Superman and Clark were really good. Everything around him was kind of meh.

 

[Micromind]

Nah. Batman and Robin or Spider-man 3 is cheese's pinnacle.

Agreed, also add Superman 4 to that list.

 

[ConnorKon-El]

Somewhere Bryan started focusing on the nostalgia of the Donner films, rather than the film he was currently making. Biggest downfall tbh. He got too wrapped up in the mythology and tone of the 2 classics. Which is understandable.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Take all the "Donner" signifiers and put them in another film with a better story and all this talk of the Donner influence being what made SR a dud would be put to bed. It is not the use of certain (iconic) signifiers or superficial similarities (Luthor's land grab ect.) that make it such a lifeless film. It's all the stuff that Donner got right that Singer got wrong that makes SR bad. From casting to plot and dialog to pacing to just plain understanding what would be pleasing to the audience Singer strikes out again and again through SR's runtime. To my mind a waste of Routh and Spacey and most of the cast sans Bosworth, who was a huge part of the problem.