Age of Ultron Whedon Still Considers Coulson Dead

[InJustice]

IGN with an article about Joss Whedon's thoughts on Agent Coulson.

“Yeah he’s dead. The entire television series is just a fever dream. It’s a Jacob’s Ladder moment he’s having at the point of death, but we don’t give that away until after season seven. And there’s a snow globe. Now I’ve given it away. Bollocks!

“It’s a weird little yes and no. As far as I’m concerned in the films, yes he’s dead. In terms of the narrative of these guys [The Avengers] his loss was very important. When I created the television show, it was sort of on the understanding that this can work and we can do it with integrity, but these Avengers movies are for people to see the Avengers movies and nothing else. And it would neither make sense nor be useful to say ‘Oh and by the way remember me? I died!’”

And it sounds like the somewhat confusing decision has caused some consternation within the MCU.

“I think actually the movie people were a little bit cross about the TV show” Whedon revealed. “They were sort of like ‘Well you can have this but not this. And this but not that.’ It’s complicated enough as it is without me adding another layer of complication. We also created a TV show called S.H.I.E.L.D. right before they made a movie where they destroyed S.H.I.E.L.D.. So everybody’s having a GREAT time!”

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2015/04/27/why-the-marvel-movie-guys-are-annoyed-with-joss-whedon

 

[m4st4]

It seems like Whedon is lately quite open about his thoughts when it comes to MCU, 'I'm almost free so now I can talk whatever I want!' - which is cool.

 

[Havok83]

Then why did he have a part in creating the show Agents of Shield if he's so against Coulson being alive?

Shouldn't have killed Coulson off in the first place for the sake of killing someone off, because Whedonism.

nah, Coulson's death was good and he shoudlnt have been brought back. He was an overrated character and was only resurrected bc he recieved a ton of fanfare which I never got as he was pretty mediocore. With that said, he IS alive so to not address it in the film space is jarring and takes away from the fact that this is all supposed to be a connected universe

 

[InJustice]

Then why did he have a part in creating the show Agents of Shield if he's so against Coulson being alive?

Shouldn't have killed Coulson off in the first place for the sake of killing someone off, because Whedonism.
Having his death be what brings The Avengers together was stupid. They barely knew him, despite how much the story tried to force interactions with each other.

You don't need to know someone personally in order to rally behind a cause. Look at how many people in the real world are able to galvanize with one another against a threat when serious issues happen regarding someone they don't even know (see: any protest involving police brutality).

Also, you make too many assumptions. Feige was responsible for the killing, not Whedon.

Are you worried about perpetuating the "Joss Whedon kills your favorite character" stigma, with what you did to Agent Coulson in The Avengers?

Joss Whedon: In our first meeting Kevin Feige said, this is what we're gonna do and I said, "Oh but you have to go out there and tell everybody that it was your idea because this is going to get me so much ****. Because they are all going to be like, "Oh he did it again!" It was stipulated from the beginning, and I completely agree that it was the right thing to do, and so did Clark. Who said in the early days, when I was busy apologizing for it, "In a movie like this, with what's going on if there isn't some toll, it's just irresponsible story telling."

http://io9.com/5909088/joss-whedon-...kable-things-to-one-character-on-the-avengers

This is to finally put an end to the people that keep spewing the same old claims, and couldn't bother to do simple research to see that Whedon wasn't responsible for killing off Coulson. Jeez guys, a google search is all it takes.

 

[Tony Stark]

The backlash against Whedon is funny to me. After Avengers came out, man is a genius. Movie isn't even out in the US yet, and we already have fanboys turning on the man over giving his opinion and RT scores. How fickle people are.

The problem is we live in a 24x7 media culture where when someone says something off hand, it gets taken blown out of proportion and fed to people day after day after day, until people take it as truth.

This is most evident in politics where a candidate misstates something, and it's caught on camera and then becomes a campaign commercial.

I love Joss, he's a brilliant mind, and he is most concerned about creativity, not about what critics or fans think of him. There are times when he frustrates the hell out of his fans (like killing off Wash in Serenity) but he is true to himself, which is something that can't be said of alot of Hollywood sellout types.

 

[Tony Stark]

I love Coulson and I enjoy AoS greatly, but I do agree that bringing Coulson back undermines that scene, and back when the Coulson Lives movement was a thing, I was against Coulson being alive. I still think he should have stayed dead myself, but I do enjoy AoS a lot, so bringing him back at least wasn't useless.

I agree with what you're saying, but as I stated earlier, it's my belief that AoS would have failed if Gregg wasn't involved. It could probably stand on it's own now, but especially in the early episodes the other characters were not that interesting. Now that Ward is a loose cannon, it's much more interesting, and they've done a better job with the backstory on other characters. If not for bringing in Gregg, I don't think AoS would have been renewed for a second season.

 

[gdw]

Whedon seems like a spoiled child lately......ragging on Ant Man......and now this..... so glad that the Russo Brothers are taking over.

What did he say about Antman?

As for his Coulson comments, I thought he made it clear that he was referring to the perceived reality of the characters in the Avengers movies. They all "know" he is dead, and bringing him into an Avengers film would seriously affect them and their dynamic in a way that would be disruptive to the films.
At least for now.

Also, as he says, his thinking is also very influenced by the notion of consistent viewing experience for those who are only seeing the movies. They need to work congruently with each other as standalones from the series, and even the rest of the movies.

The same way that, during major events in comics, the main books must stand on their own, separate from the tie-ins. The tie-ins have much more of an obligation, of course, to groove with the main books, but the main books need not be bogged down by the plots of the tie-ins.

Bringing Coulson back in AOU would mean a LOT of questions, both for the Avengers, and the general movie goer.
Aside from finding some concise way to explain his aliveness that appeases the Avengers, the general movie goer, AND the devote fan/AOS viewer, it would also have to completely derail the main plot of the film.

I haven't seen AOU yet, but Coulson popping back up would mean a HUGE shift in the relationship between Fury and the Avengers, and a lot of questions on their behalf. And not the kind that could be done away with, or dismissed in a few lines, or even an entire scene.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

Something Whedon and I have in common.

 

[Sharkboy]

Until the show affects the movies in a significant way (it's not going to happen), I don't consider them canon...or more accurately I'd just consider the show a cheap tie-in. Sorta like when sci fi shows have novels, or anime has filler.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Is it just me, or does Whedon seem fed up with the stifling micromanaging of the MCU?

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

I like what Whedon says here:

Yeah he’s dead. The entire television series is just a fever dream. It’s a Jacob’s Ladder moment he’s having at the point of death, but we don’t give that away until after season seven. And there’s a snow globe. Now I’ve given it away. Bollocks!

That's my head-con until further notice.

 

[Sharkboy]

Whedon seems like a spoiled child lately......ragging on Ant Man......and now this..... so glad that the Russo Brothers are taking over.

He praised Edgar Wrights script, sure it kinda bums people out that we'll never see that version but how is that "ragging", sounds like the case where someone is doing some "real talk" and you can't take the criticism over something you fanboying over.

Harsh truth; a lot of people agree with him.

 

[Sharkboy]

Is it just me, or does Whedon seem fed up with the stifling micromanaging of the MCU?

I would be too, it almost seems like the non avengers movies are the only ones with a sense of freedom (for better or worse) as fun as AoU was, there did seem to be a lot of company required moments that Joss needed to put in. (just speculation on my part)

I like what Whedon says here:



That's my head-con until further notice.

snap

 

[Guts]

Whedon was the overseer of Phase 2 movies, and he was the reason neither Hawkeye nor Hulk appeared in the Phase 2. I won't be surprised if he's the reason Coulson has been kept out of the movies as well.

I thought the reason why Hawkeye wasn't in the Winter Soldier was because Jeremy Renner was filming another movie at the same time that Winter Soldier was filming.

 

[Spider-Fan]

They wrote a scene that included Hawkeye in TWS, but Renner wasn't available. The description was after Cap escapes SHIELD, he was going to fight Clint, who was going to let Cap win and tell him he needs to go under ground, and then Cap would ditch his SHIELD outfit at a gym.

 

[ThePhantasm]

I would be too, it almost seems like the non avengers movies are the only ones with a sense of freedom (for better or worse) as fun as AoU was, there did seem to be a lot of company required moments that Joss needed to put in. (just speculation on my part)

Yeah, thank God James Gunn seems to be actively trying to limit such "company required moments" in the Guardians movies.

 

[Tony Stark]

These arguments are so pathetic, they're hardly worth wasting time on. Whedon is saying that the Avengers don't know Coulson is still alive. WHO CARES!!! Is there really any benefit at all to having a Coulson cameo or having him show up?

The quote that pr0xyt0xin put up shows that people took his comments WAY more seriously than Joss intended them to be.

I think Joss is probably very uncomfortable with the amount of attention he has gotten with these films. He's a guy that's traditionally behind the scenes writing, directing on the small screen and closely working with actors. When you see him in interviews, he clearly does not enjoy the limelight as is somewhat of an introvert, or at least shy, and he has a very, very dry sense of humor.

As far as the "company required moments"...... guys get with the program. There have been 10 movies in the MCU, any director at this point should know this is about the sum of the parts, not about any individual directors vision. I mean it's like joining the Marine Corps and questioning how they run boot camp.

I don't know if Whedon is fed up or not. He's seemingly done, and that's fine. You congratulate him on his work and move on, just as I did with Favreau.

The whole bit of the mustache twirling mouse that is controlling everything is simply just hyperbole.

 

[TheVileOne]

Yes because its all connected.

 

[Xeno]

You don't need to know someone personally in order to rally behind a cause. Look at how many people in the real world are able to galvanize with one another against a threat when serious issues happen regarding someone they don't even know (see: any protest involving police brutality).

Also, you make too many assumptions. Feige was responsible for the killing, not Whedon.



This is to finally put an end to the people that keep spewing the same old claims, and couldn't bother to do simple research to see that Whedon wasn't responsible for killing off Coulson. Jeez guys, a google search is all it takes.

Yes, but Whedon comes off as a bit of a *****e since he took on the task of resurrecting Coulson and creating AOS quite readily. After setting up the show he put his own reatives in charge of it despite their lack of experience (which showed in the poor quality of the first season). Even his sister-in-law's father and brother work on that show.

Whedon's disavowal of AOS doesn't sit well and makes me question whether he agreed to work on AOS just to get the nepotism train rolling.

 

[InJustice]

I think it's too easy and lazy to paint Whedon as the *****e. If anything, it's Marvel TV/Studios and Kevin Feige and the lack of communication between the entities. First, you have Feige telling Whedon that the basic plot of The Avengers is going to involve Agent Coulson's death. Fast forward a couple months later, and Marvel and likely Feige is coming to Whedon with the premise for a TV show called Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and wants Phil Coulson to spearhead the show. If I'm Joss, I'd be like "Are you ****ing serious?"

It gets a lot more complicated as Joss Whedon says in this quote:

Whedon quickly found himself caught in a peculiar corporate dilemma: Making sure that he successfully launched Marvel Studios’ first TV show without ever getting in the way of an entire fleet of Marvel Studios movie franchises. “There was a period where it got … complicated,” Whedon said. “A lot of people who aren’t connected with the show were like, Oh, yeah, you have to have this guest star, and you have to work around this. Sometimes, it makes your head spin. I mean, it’s hard enough when they’re like, And by the way, in Iron Man 4, he’s going to be played by Linda Hunt as a human spider. And you’re like, Oh, OK! I guess I’ll have to work that in.”

Another complicating factor with Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: “They didn’t actually want me to make it,” said Whedon. “It’s like, ‘Uh, Joss, we really wanted you to do [Age of Ultron]. Instead you created a TV show, you moron.’ ‘I thought you wanted me to!’ ‘No, we just wanted you to make a movie.’ ‘Oh. My bad.’ … It went from being absolutely 100% the driving force and totally hands-on to ‘That sounds great, Jed! You should do that!’”

Source: http://www.buzzfeed.com/adambvary/j...ing-soul-crushing-marvel-adventure#.banPprk2W

Which tells us a lot of things: 1) Joss has already had a reduced role from the get-go (partly attributed to Age of Ultron's shooting, but I highly doubt he's going to get a larger role now that he's not working on any Marvel movies). 2) It seems like Marvel is getting sloppy first with the indecision in regards to Coulson's standing, and now the apparent refusal to connect Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. to their movies. Why come at him with the offer to create the show if you wanted him to remain with the Avengers? Additionally, why even come up with the premise of killing Coulson off if you had ideas about making a TV show? (Note: for it to have been launched in September 2013, the plan would have to have been in early discussions in at least late 2011-early 2012).

It's starting to look a lot to me like Marvel wanted to use Coulson and Joss Whedon's name to sell the show. And perhaps they got sloppy as a result.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think we're making mountains over mole hills, myself.

 

[fire117]

These arguments are so pathetic, they're hardly worth wasting time on. Whedon is saying that the Avengers don't know Coulson is still alive. WHO CARES!!! Is there really any benefit at all to having a Coulson cameo or having him show up?

It's a loose end that some fans want to see resolved. Including me.

 

[Tony Stark]

I fail to see how it's a loose end, but granted I haven't seen AoU yet. The way they have handled AoU against the films is that the films influence AoS not the other way around, which seems right to me.

The episode where Sif tell Coulson that Thor will be excited to hear that he survived and Coulson asks her not to tell him, he's still alive.

Fury has shown that he isn't above keeping secrets from people. He probably doesn't want the Avengers to know because he manipulated them.

 

[Tony Stark]

I think we're making mountains over mole hills, myself.

I'm 100% with you on that.

 

[MbJ]

Yes because its all connected.

Not really. Agents of SHIELD has pretty much ALWAYS been a one way street. They react to stuff that happens in the movies and occasionally will get some guest stars from the film but the relationship has always been one sided.