Sequels where did the X-MEN Movie Franchise go wrong?

[GuestStar2004]

im sure even if you like the last stand and Wolverine you could still say the franchise has started to lose itself abit

im currently watching X2 and its really enjoyable and leaves me abit saddened to dislike the last stand

i mean now its all one character spin offs and prequels, and thats all fox seems to be thinking about

so where did it go wrong?

 

[misjuevos]

the main thing is they killed off their telepaths. so who is gonna use cerebro now. emma frost was barely seen in wolvie movie. also they seemed like they wanted to end the franchise with 3 so they killed off whoever. they would hint at some cool stuff but not deliver, like in the danger room with the sentinel. they could have shown the sentinel that way the team could really let loose and you can see what they are capable of. another example is angel was introduced but not used, it seems like they were saving him.

 

[Mace Dolex]

When they killed off Professor X and Cyclops in X3, I didn't care for Phoenix dying since she could've been brought back in future sequels.

Also X2 left the viewer with such anticipation for X3 that one was expecting it to be a spectacular finale but with a short runtime and cramming all the X-Men who hadn't been shown yet felt unsatifactory.

And if FOX weren't planning on further X-movies why the hell would they end it on cliffhangers such as Wolvering going back to Canada, Rogue losing her powers, Magneto having a hint of his powers and Xavier reincarnated in another body.

 

[TNC9852002]

Two words:

Superman Returns

When we lost Bryan Singer to Superman Returns, that's when things fell apart and without his personal connection to the material, his attention to detail and story, and his influence in the studios, I feel that X3 as well as Wolverine, ended up suffering without him.

There's not a doubt in my mind that Bryan Singer's X3 would have been drastically different than what we got. The skeleton of the story would have been the same, but the characters, relationships, climax, and the storytelling would have made a significant difference and it would've impacted the way the Wolverine solo movie and/or the Magneto solo movie came about.

Some of my personal issues with X3 has NOTHING to do with story elements such as Xavier being killed (kinda), Cyclops disappearing (presumably dead), or anything else. The issues I have are all fundamental. This deals with the editing, acting, storytelling, flat characters, production value, running time, lack of cohesiveness...Not to say there aren't things that I like about X3, I like a lot of it, but there's no comparison in terms of overall quality when comparing it to the last two films.

X3 felt like it was supposed to be a 2 hour series finale for an animated show in terms of its pacing and editing. It didn't feel like it had the same cinematic weight or drama attached to it that the last movies had and I think those deviations are what most people find as the reasons for the series' decline. It's still very moot in my eyes since that series is pretty much over.

I see First Class as the beginning of an entirely new series that just happens to take place in the same timeline. Now with Singer overseeing everything and a quality director attached, all things before now can't be considered. We're in a new ballgame here.

 

[misjuevos]

but superman suffered with him. he had a chance to do an original superman, but chose to make it a sequel. we will see how he does with the new stuff.

 

[TNC9852002]

Doesn't matter what happened with Superman. The point is, X-Men suffered more without him than Superman did with him. I don't think anyone expected Singer to make an original Superman (anyone who actually knew what the movie would be) nor did a lot of people seem to want one. People want to see more of the same, but done differently. Singer showed us too much more of the same and not done differently enough.

The movie was still well-made, had great production value, and a lot of good performances, but it felt a little too safe and familiar. I think Singer was miscast as a director for such a property.

 

[ImWithTeamConan]

When Fox didn't wait for Singer and hired Ratner when Vaughn left. Impatience.

 

[TNC9852002]

I wouldn't have waited either. Singer shouldn't have left in the first place.

 

[misjuevos]

just hope the new one is gonna be good

 

[anrrd_2]

short answer? Brett Ratner

Long answer? It involves a covert black-ops conspiracy, a large sum of money, and a paraplegic donkey... if i told you, i would have to kill you.

 

[TheVelvetOnion]

Fox's interferance is what caused this franchise to be a successful hit but also incredibally bad...

Essentially in order for this franchise to have been great, they should of locked in Bryan Singer for a 4 movie deal, that way we would have a great trilogy and either a 4th movie or a spin off that felt in the same vain. Then we locked in David Hayter - the voice of solid snake and the writer who helped out on x1 and x2, my favorite scenes in x2 were some of the scenes Hayter wrote like wolverine going bezerke in xaviers school when strikers men was there... that was brilliant. Compaired that to the cheesy colossus wolverine throw in last stand, it just didnt go down well.

I know that they threw in xaviers and cyclops death to give a shock moment but i think it was wrong for character development.

Phoenix yes, but the only other x-men that should of died is wolverine considering the movie was about him. Now i know what your gonna say wolverine cant die. But think of this, what if the story ended with Wolverine sacrificing himself to save the x-men but killing the phoenix in the process, But after the credits Wolverine wakes back up... making you believe that wolverine survived but he isnt going back to the x-men... hes moving on.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Basically, X3 screwed the franchise because Fox cared a lot more about making money rather than making a well crafted movie. They hoped that by stuffing the movie with special effects and action scene's they would draw the crowds in, and to a point it did, but the drop-off's of X3 tell their own tale IMO.

I have just finished watching X2, and that movie is so full of heart and soul it makes it all the more infuriating that X3 turned out to be so cold and emotionless, not to mention just not very well made.

At the moment, i'm not sure the franchise can recover, I enjoyed Wolverine more than X3 but again it was a severe dissapointment that has a detrimental effect on the franchise and unfortunately does effect your viewing of X1 and X2, although thankfully not too much.

I think even if Vaughn and Singer manage to make a great FC movie, the franchise will still be tainted, because at the end of the day, with X3, they ruined the best X-Men story. I still dont know how though to be honest, even without Singer, X2 was the pefect story, the movie basically wrote itself, yet they still screwed it up badly.

 

[TheVelvetOnion]

i think that Singer could stear wolverine 2 in the right direction...

 

[Squidboy]

I think Singer leaving the franchise hurt it in the worst ways possible. Losing the man whose vision brought the first two X-Men films to life left the franchise in the same boat as the Batman films when Burton left them, and I think that the biggest problem with the whole situation is that Singer would have gladly worked on an X-Men movie again, but only after his other obligations. Don't get me wrong, the man is a great director and some of the movies he's made since X2 (Valkyrie in particular) have been good, but it's just a slap in the face that the worst movie of his career is the one that took him away from the X-Men movies.

Accepting the fact that he left, I think the only thing FOX could have done to have improved X-Men: The Last Stand would have been fleshing out the script and making the movie at least 20-30 minutes longer to really explore all the plots fully. We see Rogue for maybe 15 minutes in the whole film, whereas she has been one of the leading roles in the past two movies and proved herself on several occasions to be an asset to the team. She at least deserved to get extra scenes to show the audience her struggle with her powers, instead of just flat-out making it seem that Bobby was the reason she wanted to get the cure. Same with Phoenix - we spent two movies invested in seeing what would happen with this character, only to have her pushed in the background for most of the movie, only really speaking to Logan and only using her powers to make things go POOF.

I should also shamelessly state that putting Nightcrawler in the film would have been a more logical choice than adding multiple characters who are there just for show (Colossus, Angel, Arclight, and just about anyone who wasn't Storm, Magneto, or Wolverine)

 

[TNC9852002]

I DO believe that if 70% of all of those deleted scenes from X3 (and boy were there a lot of them) were kept in and polished, it would've made the movie an entire iota better. Aww, too bad..

 

[X-Maniac]

im sure even if you like the last stand and Wolverine you could still say the franchise has started to lose itself abit

im currently watching X2 and its really enjoyable and leaves me abit saddened to dislike the last stand

i mean now its all one character spin offs and prequels, and thats all fox seems to be thinking about

so where did it go wrong?

It has to be said here that Fox always intended X3 to be the end of a trilogy before focusing on prequels and spin-offs. That was a deliberate plan.

The reason is that the films were becoming more and more expensive and, because of having to gather such a large, big-name cast, they were difficult to organise. In addition, the cast get older or want to do other things or get locked into other projects and you then risk recasting or omitting characters.

This happened with X3 anyway. Singer hired James Marsden (and he also wanted to hire Famke, Hugh and Shawn), and Anna Paquin and Rebecca Romijn were busy on other projects during part of the production. In addition, Patrick Stewart said he wanted to return to stage work - he actually said that to my media group's showbiz editor. Those decisions affect the film that can be made. But, of course, fans are blind to all that. They think these $200million movies come together by magic.

As you can see, the films become difficult. Trying to get all those people together over and over again can't happen for ever.

So X3 was always intended as closure for that storyline, although Lauren Shuler Donner has since become open to the idea of an X4 because she and the studio are aware of the fans' views, the petitions, etc.

Christopher Nolan is also doing just one more Batman movie before moving on; he's not going to make Batman movies for the rest of his life no matter what the fans might wish for in their unreal dreamworld. And the Spider-Man franchise collapsed after three films. So it's certainly not a rare thing for films to reach an ending after a trilogy. Even the next Pirates movie is scaling itself right down after the previous trilogy so it's less complicated and less expensive, and some characters don't want to come back (Bloom, Knightley).

It's difficult to say for sure where it all "went wrong" because it has all happened according to the circumstances at the time.

Ratner handled some parts of X3 fine but there were some weak areas - for instance he made a questionable decision in using the scene where Rogue is cured, even though someone with that mutation might well choose to be cured in real life.

There was no way Fox could wait for Singer because if Superman Returns had been a massive success, he would have been tied up with a Superman franchise. There was no way of knowing if Singer would ever be free to come back to the franchise.

 

[Spider-Vader]

Fox.


The only good X-Men movie is X2 & that's because Singer somehow got comic accuracy under Fox's nose. Fox must really hate comic book movies being like the source material.

 

[JP]

I watched 1&2 back to back today. They flow so nicely together.

 

[Squidboy]

I DO believe that if 70% of all of those deleted scenes from X3 (and boy were there a lot of them) were kept in and polished, it would've made the movie an entire iota better. Aww, too bad..

Are you talking about the extended deleted scenes? Because (and forgive me, because I haven't watched the DVD since I got it three or four years back) I don't recall there being a whole lot we were missing out without those scenes. I did like the way the Pyro/Magneto scene was shot (the one that came in bearded and unbearded versions), and Rogue's deleted scene for the end of the film was definitely a necessary inclusion, and there were a few scenes that actually showcased Jean, but I felt the rest of the scenes were just extended scenes that didn't add too much to the plot anyway.

 

[anrrd_2]

I DO believe that if 70% of all of those deleted scenes from X3 (and boy were there a lot of them) were kept in and polished, it would've made the movie an entire iota better. Aww, too bad..

like the alternate scene where juggernaut crashes through the wall and says "Heerre's Juggy!"


honestly, i died a little inside when i watched that scene

 

[Squidboy]

like the alternate scene where juggernaut crashes through the wall and says "Heerre's Juggy!"


honestly, i died a little inside when i watched that scene

Nothing stops the Jugger-notfunny, lolz

 

[anrrd_2]

"Jugger-notfunny", heh, that's funny... or should i say, PUNNY! Ba-Zing!

 

[Squidboy]

"Jugger-notfunny", heh, that's funny... or should i say, PUNNY! Ba-Zing!

I'm pretty funny at 1 AM, haha. It's just a shame that a character like Juggernaut couldn't even be treated with dignity in his only movie appearance. Hell, Toad was more serious than this version of Juggy, and he's usually the one who cracks/is the butt of a joke

 

[X-Maniac]

the main thing is they killed off their telepaths. so who is gonna use cerebro now. emma frost was barely seen in wolvie movie. also they seemed like they wanted to end the franchise with 3 so they killed off whoever. they would hint at some cool stuff but not deliver, like in the danger room with the sentinel. they could have shown the sentinel that way the team could really let loose and you can see what they are capable of. another example is angel was introduced but not used, it seems like they were saving him.

Well, there are other telepaths.

But Cerebro became a plot device in X1 and X2. Maybe it's time to move on.

 

[X-Maniac]

I'm pretty funny at 1 AM, haha. It's just a shame that a character like Juggernaut couldn't even be treated with dignity in his only movie appearance. Hell, Toad was more serious than this version of Juggy, and he's usually the one who cracks/is the butt of a joke

Well, he was obviously intended to be comic relief.

Not that I enjoyed him being that. Silent would have been more menacing. And that viral video line was god-awful. Much more effective simply to have him busting out of the floor than delivering corny YouTube lines.