Who Could Replace Thanos as the Next Big Bad Villain of the Universe

[BigThor]

You're just thinking in terms of raw power which I think is the wrong approach. Thanos just snapped his fingers and destroyed half the universe. If they try and top him in power with the next villain it will fail. The next big bad, if there even is one, has got to be more low-key; an up close and personal villain who can scheme and manipulate. Doom is perfect for that. Once you've given the cosmic threat thing a break for a couple of phases, then you can move back to villains like Kang and Galactus.

No I'm thinking about everything, people seem to forget Thanos is not just powerful he's more INTELLIGENT and more strategic and calculating than Doom will ever be. His plans have a much higher success rate than Doom's there is literally NOTHING Doom does better than Thanos.

Doom is intellectually inferior to Reed Richards, Thanos is much much much more intelligent than Reed Richards

 

[Protar]

No I'm thinking about everything, people seemed to forget Thanos is not just powerful he's more INTELLIGENT and more strategic and calculating fan Doom will ever be. His plans have a much higher success rate than Doom's there is literally NOTHING Doom does better than Thanos.

Doom is intellectually inferior to Reed Richards, Thanos is much much much more intelligent than Reed Richards

That is not necessarily true of the movie universe. Clearly, Thanos in Infinity War is smart but he's not being played as a master manipulator. Doom could take the best parts of Thanos and Loki. What Doom has over Thanos is that he's part of our world. You could never have an Avengers movie where Thanos semi-legitimately becomes president of earth and the Avengers have to fight against his tyrannical regime. You can do that with Doom. Plus he's got magic. Doom's strength as a villain is that he's got a hand in each of the "arenas" of the marvel world. He's a human dictator so he works in more grounded settings, but he also works in supernatural and/or cosmic settings.

 

[Limonade]

No I'm thinking about everything, people seemed to forget Thanos is not just powerful he's more INTELLIGENT and more strategic and calculating fan Doom will ever be. His plans have a much higher success rate than Doom's there is literally NOTHING Doom does better than Thanos.

Doom is intellectually inferior to Reed Richards, Thanos is much much much more intelligent than Reed Richards

I agree that Doom is intellectually inferior to Reed Richards... which is why Richard's team seems to always undermine his best efforts.

However, Doom is terrifying because of his relentless pursuit of knowledge and power. He may be undermined at times but he comes back with an understanding of what didn't work and doubles his efforts while building a separate plan that could get him closer to his goal if he should fail.

He's like an evil Batman who when is outwitted in one match enters the 2nd match crazily prepared.

Richards and Doom is more like Singer's Xavier and Magneto.

 

[unholyrevenger]

Cancerverse, basically Thanos of the Cancerverse is even dumber than MCU Thanos. He uses the Infinity Stones to make sure everything in the cancerverse can't "die," the wish is flawed, they just become undead things.

 

[Batmannerism]

No I'm thinking about everything, people seemed to forget Thanos is not just powerful he's more INTELLIGENT and more strategic and calculating fan Doom will ever be. His plans have a much higher success rate than Doom's there is literally NOTHING Doom does better than Thanos.

Doom is intellectually inferior to Reed Richards, Thanos is much much much more intelligent than Reed Richards

I disagree about Doom 's intellect. I think he is at least the equal of Reed, and a master planner with a plan a,b,c ....z
and almost none of Reed's ethics to restrain him.

Where Doom comes unstuck is that he also has a massive ego, it isnt just enough to win. He has to let his enemies know that he has won, and how he did it ( classic example, when he found Terrax, after Galactus took his powers away, gave him his powers back and sent him to kill the FF, it was all going well until Doom had to step in personally.....and it ends up with Doom trapped in his armour and getting disintegrated by a cosmic fireball - wont tell you how he came back from that).

Anyway, many times Reed has beaten Doom by exploiting his ego - which makes him predictable.

He's the comic book equivalent of a Bond villain.

What I love about Doom is that he's also slightly ridiculous - especially the way he refers to himself in 3rd person

"Fear is for lesser men...never for Doom!"

"ultimate power is the ultimate destiny of Doom !"

After the cosmic threat of Thanos, I feel like the MCU needs someone even bigger than Doom - save him for an FF revival, just give him the casting, story and dialogue he deserves.

Christoph Waltz would make a great Doom, as he can pull off pompous and ridiculous ( and evil) at the same time.
He would make a great Red Skull.

But as for the MCU , I think they need a supervillain team.

Introduce a bunch of villains in separate films and have them team up.

 

[Yowza]

Great character breakdown on Doom. Points taken.

Something perhaps too obvious to point out is a villain can ONLY succeed if the writer (or in this case studio/publisher) lets them even if odds are stacked against the heroes to pretty much make it impossible for them to succeed. That is the most definitive caveat (or asterisk if you will) that should follow any assessments of a villains potential as a threat. Come on.

 

[Nardz937]

Absolutely Doctor Doom.

 

[BigThor]

I disagree about Doom 's intellect. I think he is at least the equal of Reed, and a master planner with a plan a,b,c ....z
and almost none of Reed's ethics to restrain him.

Where Doom comes unstuck is that he also has a massive ego, it isnt just enough to win. He has to let his enemies know that he has won, and how he did it ( classic example, when he found Terrax, after Galactus took his powers away, gave him his powers back and sent him to kill the FF, it was all going well until Doom had to step in personally.....and it ends up with Doom trapped in his armour and getting disintegrated by a cosmic fireball - wont tell you how he came back from that).

Anyway, many times Reed has beaten Doom by exploiting his ego - which makes him predictable.

He's the comic book equivalent of a Bond villain.

What I love about Doom is that he's also slightly ridiculous - especially the way he refers to himself in 3rd person

"Fear is for lesser men...never for Doom!"

"ultimate power is the ultimate destiny of Doom !"

After the cosmic threat of Thanos, I feel like the MCU needs someone even bigger than Doom - save him for an FF revival, just give him the casting, story and dialogue he deserves.

Christoph Waltz would make a great Doom, as he can pull off pompous and ridiculous ( and evil) at the same time.
He would make a great Red Skull.

But as for the MCU , I think they need a supervillain team.

Introduce a bunch of villains in separate films and have them team up.

No, he's intellectual inferior to Reed Richards...

But you know he could just hate Reed Richards for no reason and be attempting to prove he's better than him for nothing.

Great character breakdown on Doom. Points taken.

Something perhaps too obvious to point out is a villain can ONLY succeed if the writer (or in this case studio/publisher) lets them even if odds are stacked against the heroes to pretty much make it impossible for them to succeed. That is the most definitive caveat (or asterisk if you will) that should follow any assessments of a villains potential as a threat. Come on.

Yeah but that's stupid, you can theoretically have Hawkeye cure world cancer and be a three headed dragon in an Avengers movie....but why?

Why adapt a character and change them into something else to suit your purpose when there's already existing characters that suit you purpose.

 

[Yowza]

Yeah but that's stupid, you can theoretically have Hawkeye cure world cancer and be a three headed dragon in an Avengers movie....but why?

Why adapt a character and change them into something else to suit your purpose when there's already existing characters that suit you purpose.

I was still talking within the bounds of characterization and story pertaining purely about a villain succeeding or failing against the superhero.

For example, I understood the points about Dr. Doom but overly analyzing why they failed in the past I think (even if works within bounds characterization at times) can only be analyzed so much before pointing out very obviously the villain never really succeed due to many reasons exceeding beyond the 4th wall context.

The very title of this thread built around this assumption so really hard to get invested in which villain has most potential to cause instability for the hero's. I think (unless start killing off franchises right away), choice of villain moreso will go along other factors such as which next fight has the potential to evolve the hero's personal journey or some sort of visualization/story to center the story around for entertainment purposes I get. Comic villains are very colorful and have a certain vibe and potential they can bring to each story no doubt. Who has the most potential to be a threat though I think is kind of a futile endeavor when choosing a villain though especially as more of these movies come out each year.

 

[Web-Head]

A group of villains. Including and featuring Michael C. Hall's Norman Osborn

 

[Batmannerism]

No, he's intellectual inferior to Reed Richards...

But you know he could just hate Reed Richards for no reason and be attempting to prove he's better than him for nothing.

Dude, you are going to have to back that up !

Have you got some evidence - and I don't mean just because Doom's plans usually fail, that's more often than not due to his ego ( I believe he's just as smart as Reed, but also has a massive handicap of always getting in his own way).

What appears to make Reed smarter is that he can accept when he is wrong - and more importantly, can accept the possibility that he can be wrong. Doom just can't even conceive of being wrong about something - which is why he screws things up for himself.

There are more than a few times when Reed gets into trouble because he's gotten something wrong, and is able to save the day, because he realises his original idea is flawed, and then corrects his mistake.

Doom would find it almost impossilbe to do that, because he would have to accept that he was wrong.

He's kind of an evil Sheldon Cooper, on steroids.

Anyway, if you've got some proof from a comic or writer I'll believe that Doom is not as smart as Reed, but until then, I'm not convinced.

 

[GoblinScrier]

Doom all the way....I will repeat again why despite how much Thanos rocks and is an amazing villain, Doom all the way for me...A man...pure and simple...with a genius level intellect who has been able to do the following:

*Beat the Silver Surfer and absorb his cosmic power

*Using Klaw's solidified body, he created energy absorbing lenses and drained Galactus himself all of his power into Doom's armor.

*Taking said power, Doom defeated the Beyonder and became supreme over the universe.

*Figured out a way to take the Odinforce

*Took over the world using the Purple Man's influence but gave it up out of boredom because of the idea of an administrator vs. conquerer didn't appeal to him.

*His greatest achievement, defeated the Beyonders, became God Emperor of the Multi-verse, held the reality together through sheer will (and the Molecule Man)

 

[Abudefduf]

Sounds impressive. Is there anything Doctor Mary Sue cannot do?

 

[Weevils]

The Leader likely would have been used as well if not for Disney's purchase of Marvel. I assume he could be used, I think a Gamma World film would be brilliant going off the EMH example. They just don't want any headaches with Universal.

From reading Kevin Feige's response when asked about The Leader, I don't think his absence has been caused by the Universal rights issue. As long as MCU didn't attempt to make a solo movie on The Leader they should be okay.
I would like them to revisit the character in phase 4 for some form of payoff. He may not be a phase-wide big bad, although he has the power should the MCU decide to scale back the threat post Thanos; but he could certainly be used in a one off movie to complete his story.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Dude, you are going to have to back that up !

Have you got some evidence - and I don't mean just because Doom's plans usually fail, that's more often than not due to his ego ( I believe he's just as smart as Reed, but also has a massive handicap of always getting in his own way).

What appears to make Reed smarter is that he can accept when he is wrong - and more importantly, can accept the possibility that he can be wrong. Doom just can't even conceive of being wrong about something - which is why he screws things up for himself.

There are more than a few times when Reed gets into trouble because he's gotten something wrong, and is able to save the day, because he realises his original idea is flawed, and then corrects his mistake.

Doom would find it almost impossilbe to do that, because he would have to accept that he was wrong.

He's kind of an evil Sheldon Cooper, on steroids.

Anyway, if you've got some proof from a comic or writer I'll believe that Doom is not as smart as Reed, but until then, I'm not convinced.

I do believe Doom is intellectually inferior to Reed, and Doom on some level knows this (though denies it) and it is why Reed's existence drives Doom mad. Because time and time again, Reed out thinks Doom and in the end is normally right. Doom cannot except there is someone better than him, which is why he must always prove to Reed he is superior.

I don't think the gap between them is wide, but I think it is there. In Marvel, I think Reed is clear #1 and Doom is clear #2. But Doom cannot accept being #2 (even if he is smarter than everyone except Reed...he must be #1)

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I do believe Doom is intellectually inferior to Reed, and Doom on some level knows this (though denies it) and it is why Reed's existence drives Doom mad. Because time and time again, Reed out thinks Doom and in the end is normally right. Doom cannot except there is someone better than him, which is why he must always prove to Reed he is superior.

I don't think the gap between them is wide, but I think it is there. In Marvel, I think Reed is clear #1 and Doom is clear #2. But Doom cannot accept being #2 (even if he is smarter than everyone except Reed...he must be #1)

I think this is, and always has been, the general intent. We obviously can't objectively say: "Reed Richards is smarter than Doom." because there's no clear, indisputable definition of intelligence. (Doom is certainly smarter than Reed when it comes specifically to matters of the metaphysical as one example).

But I think it has always generally been accepted that Reed is smarter than Doom and that's a HUGE thing that drives Doom - to try to prove that isn't true... and he always fails.

 

[Batmannerism]

I do believe Doom is intellectually inferior to Reed, and Doom on some level knows this (though denies it) and it is why Reed's existence drives Doom mad. Because time and time again, Reed out thinks Doom and in the end is normally right. Doom cannot except there is someone better than him, which is why he must always prove to Reed he is superior.

I don't think the gap between them is wide, but I think it is there. In Marvel, I think Reed is clear #1 and Doom is clear #2. But Doom cannot accept being #2 (even if he is smarter than everyone except Reed...he must be #1)

I think this is, and always has been, the general intent. We obviously can't objectively say: "Reed Richards is smarter than Doom." because there's no clear, indisputable definition of intelligence. (Doom is certainly smarter than Reed when it comes specifically to matters of the metaphysical as one example).

But I think it has always generally been accepted that Reed is smarter than Doom and that's a HUGE thing that drives Doom - to try to prove that isn't true... and he always fails.

Gentlemen we are at an impasse.

I still believe that Doom is intellectually superior to Reed - however his character flaw of extreme arrogance gets in the way ( i.e.not only can he not accept when he is wrong, he is blind to the possibility that he even could be wrong in the first place - a bit like Tony Stark sometimes.)

This is very similar to Lex Luthor, who has an established IQ of 225, but loses the plot when he's dealing with Superman, and his schemes fall apart.

It's as if Doom has an IQ of 230 and Reed is around 220. They're both among the smartest humans ever, with Doom being slightly more gifted..... but not being able to utilise his full potential because his personality gets in the way. Reed doesn't have that problem and uses his full capacity for rational thought.

This is all IMO of course, if you have proof that Reed is smarter than Doom, the unlike Doom I will accept it ( although Doom wouldn't).

 

[Spider-Fan]

Gentlemen we are at an impasse.

I still believe that Doom is intellectually superior to Reed - however his character flaw of extreme arrogance gets in the way ( i.e.not only can he not accept when he is wrong, he is blind to the possibility that he even could be wrong in the first place - a bit like Tony Stark sometimes.)

This is very similar to Lex Luthor, who has an established IQ of 225, but loses the plot when he's dealing with Superman, and his schemes fall apart.

It's as if Doom has an IQ of 230 and Reed is around 220. They're both among the smartest humans ever, with Doom being slightly more gifted..... but not being able to utilise his full potential because his personality gets in the way. Reed doesn't have that problem and uses his full capacity for rational thought.

This is all IMO of course, if you have proof that Reed is smarter than Doom, the unlike Doom I will accept it ( although Doom wouldn't).

My proof would be the fact the rivalry between Doom and Reed works better with Doom being #2. If Doom is clearly smarter than Reed, then it makes the obsession he has with him make less sense. Doom has lost to other super heroes before, but he's only ever obsessed over 1 person. There has to be a reason for that logically, and him knowing that Reed is smarter than him would be what is different about Reed than say Tony Stark or T'Challa or Spider-Man (who also have bested Doom or stopped his plans before).

That and the fact that in the end, it is Reed who is always besting Doom pretty much. Do I have an exact moment at the top of my head to provide you? No, but I am sure I could come up with some if I got out my FF books. But dramatically, it makes more sense.

 

[Batmannerism]

My proof would be the fact the rivalry between Doom and Reed works better with Doom being #2. If Doom is clearly smarter than Reed, then it makes the obsession he has with him make less sense. Doom has lost to other super heroes before, but he's only ever obsessed over 1 person. There has to be a reason for that logically, and him knowing that Reed is smarter than him would be what is different about Reed than say Tony Stark or T'Challa or Spider-Man (who also have bested Doom or stopped his plans before).

That and the fact that in the end, it is Reed who is always besting Doom pretty much. Do I have an exact moment at the top of my head to provide you? No, but I am sure I could come up with some if I got out my FF books. But dramatically, it makes more sense.

There is a degree of logic to your first point , that it's a better story point.

Your second point - that ultimately Reed beats Doom every time, can also be explained ( as I have above) that Doom's greater intellect is subject to an emotional limitation - whereas Reed isn't.

It would be like Reverse Flash being faster than Flash, but also clumsy and prone to tripping.

 

[Spider-Fan]

There is a degree of logic to your first point , that it's a better story point.

Your second point - that ultimately Reed beats Doom every time, can also be explained ( as I have above) that Doom's greater intellect is subject to an emotional limitation - whereas Reed isn't.

It would be like Reverse Flash being faster than Flash, but also clumsy and prone to tripping.

Arrogance doesn't necessarily mean higher intellect. Believe me, I know plenty of people with lower IQs that have plenty of arrogance and vanity. Doom certainly is a slave to his vanity and arrogance. It is ultimately his downfall time and again. But just because Doom has arrogance that he is right and won't lose doesn't mean he is smarter than Reed. Reed consistently out thinks Doom, and it is not always just by pointing out Doom is wrong, it is considering things Doom has never considered. Now, Doom DOES thinks highly of himself because of his greater intellect. On this point we agree. That is a core foundation of his character. But Doom's obsessive nature with Reed exposes his inner feelings and the conflict he has with himself because of Reed. Again, there is a reason that Doom erased all Reed's from the multiverse when he became God Doom. It's because there is one man that can prove him to be a false god and that his views of himself are wrong, and that man is Reed Richards.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

There is a degree of logic to your first point , that it's a better story point.

Your second point - that ultimately Reed beats Doom every time, can also be explained ( as I have above) that Doom's greater intellect is subject to an emotional limitation - whereas Reed isn't.

It would be like Reverse Flash being faster than Flash, but also clumsy and prone to tripping.

But that gets to the basic idea that it's impossible to define intelligence and that's why there is no right or wrong answer.

If we define intelligence as the ability to see truth, Reed would be smarter because his emotions don't interfere with his ability to see truth.

If we define intelligence as the ability to bend others to do your bidding, Doom would be smarter.

Is intelligence the ability to remember things? Is it the ability to solve problems? Is it the ability to think abstractly? Is it the ability to think logically? Is it the ability to organize? Or is it an amorphous combination of all these things and others? I'm going with that last one and the idea that everybody has strengths and weaknesses within the infinite number of elements we could use to partially define intelligence.

If 6000 years of human civilization have failed to define "intelligence" in a way that everybody can agree with, I doubt we'll do it here arguing about fictional characters.

 

[Batmannerism]

But that gets to the basic idea that it's impossible to define intelligence and that's why there is no right or wrong answer.

If we define intelligence as the ability to see truth, Reed would be smarter because his emotions don't interfere with his ability to see truth.

If we define intelligence as the ability to bend others to do your bidding, Doom would be smarter.

Is intelligence the ability to remember things? Is it the ability to solve problems? Is it the ability to think abstractly? Is it the ability to think logically? Is it the ability to organize? Or is it an amorphous combination of all these things and others? I'm going with that last one and the idea that everybody has strengths and weaknesses within the infinite number of elements we could use to partially define intelligence.

If 6000 years of human civilization have failed to define "intelligence" in a way that everybody can agree with, I doubt we'll do it here arguing about fictional characters.

Sir, that is the most insightful, balanced and rational post I have seen in a long time.

I salute you. particularly for your use of "amorphous"

@Spider-Fan are there any awards left that we could nominate this worthy fellow for ?

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Got to be Galactus and SS for me, great way to introduce the latter and get his heel turn into the MCU.

 

[Flash525]

I figure it'll be either Modok, Kang, or Galacticus, the latter dependant on where they go with the four.

The likes of Dormammu, Doom, Mephisto (and Red Skull if he ever makes his return) I figure will be singular villains, attached to a specific character rather than [the] Avengers. I don't see Namor portraying a straight up villain either, but more an antihero, possibly as a secondary character to someone else (maybe someone manipulating him?)

I also confess to not knowing much about many of these other characters suggested in this topic, so I've opted to speak only of those I do know.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

They could always go the route of Annihilus and use Annihilation or The Builders for some universe ending stuff also.

But for me they gotta get Galactus and SS on screen asap.