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Sequels Who do you want for the four horsemen?

Everyone still assumes Cyclops is recovering, when he is dead, and should stay that way...I know it breaks your hearts to think that any fictional character could ever stay gone...so from here on out I support the return on Ben Parker in both the comics and movies..he was short-changed in the movie and comic and needs to be brought back to life somehow, anyhow...

The Horesemen probably would not be called The Horsemen, unless some horrible director was attached...much like The Morlocks werent called the Morlocks.

Also, No none is suggesting this all go down in one movie. I personally "support" the coming of Sinister in part one, Apocalypse taking over the world in part 2, and an Age Of Apocalype type story in part three (except it isnt alternate reality)
 
X-Maniac said:
That makes no sense at all.

That's b/c your not comprehending with what I said. I did NOT say "every" character that was killed off and depowerd. I said "some"! I was referring to those I mentioned earlier without repeating their names. I was talking about why only Angle, Rogue, Mystique and Cylcops are the ones with potential to become horsemen for Apocolypse. You obviously don't read everything that's posted here.

Anyway, just b/c the cure appeared to be temporary for Magneto doesn't make it temporary for Rogue and Mystique too! Besides, I think that can easily be ignored since a source says Ian McKellen won't be in X4.

X-Maniac, I'm sick and tired of your "reality" bickering. If a movie about mutants was set in reality it would not be about people who possess special powers. Oh and if Apocolypse and the four horsemen could be used in X-Men Evolution, they can certainly be used in this movie-verse.

If the Dark Pheonix saga was rushed into and completely altered on screen, you can expect the same for Apocolypse and the four horsemen.
 
Heretic said:
Everyone still assumes Cyclops is recovering, when he is dead, and should stay that way...I know it breaks your hearts to think that any fictional character could ever stay gone...so from here on out I support the return on Ben Parker in both the comics and movies..he was short-changed in the movie and comic and needs to be brought back to life somehow, anyhow...

The Horesemen probably would not be called The Horsemen, unless some horrible director was attached...much like The Morlocks werent called the Morlocks.

Also, No none is suggesting this all go down in one movie. I personally "support" the coming of Sinister in part one, Apocalypse taking over the world in part 2, and an Age Of Apocalype type story in part three (except it isnt alternate reality)

The difference is we know Ben Parker died. We've seen it in the comics, we've seen it in the animated series, and in the movies it's already well established that he died.

You are comparing apples and oranges. Cyclop's supposed "demise" wasn't shown for a reason and apparently it leaves it open for him to return. Marsden has said this numerous times, as did Famke, and of course Paquin said it quite a few times as well. Bottom line is the X-Men isn't X-Men without Cyclops.

In the future or in a sequel it can be corrected with better writers, a director who knows the source material, and a project that needs to be far away from Fox.
 
Mistopurr83 said:
That's b/c your not comprehending with what I said. I did NOT say "every" character that was killed off and depowerd. I said "some"! I was referring to those I mentioned earlier without repeating their names. I was talking about why only Angle, Rogue, Mystique and Cylcops are the ones with potential to become horsemen for Apocolypse. You obviously don't read everything that's posted here.

Anyway, just b/c the cure appeared to be temporary for Magneto doesn't make it temporary for Rogue and Mystique too! Besides, I think that can easily be ignored since a source says Ian McKellen won't be in X4.

X-Maniac, I'm sick and tired of your "reality" bickering. If a movie about mutants was set in reality it would not be about people who possess special powers. Oh and if Apocolypse and the four horsemen could be used in X-Men Evolution, they can certainly be used in this movie-verse. .

But the movie is set in reality. It doesn’t open saying ‘Planet Zarg, year 3014’ it opens with ‘Poland, 1944’ and then ‘not too distant future’... The setting is very much our reality with Winchester, New York; Golden Gate Bridge, SF,; Whitehouse, Washington DC.

It was Bryan Singer who grounded the movie even more than the setting, with mutants whose powers were shown with a lot of restraint. No magnetic forcefield bubble for Magneto, no flying for Storm (until X3), no Shi’ar, no Asteroid M, no Magneto base under an Antarctic volcano, no M’Krann crystal, no D’Bari sun eaten by Phoenix.

What I’m saying is that Bryan Singer’s movieverse makes some things difficult to introduce. X3 was blasted for its more comicbook feel/tone and it hadn’t begun to do even half of what the comics show, it just nudged things a little closer.



Mistopurr83 said:
If the Dark Pheonix saga was rushed into and completely altered on screen, you can expect the same for Apocolypse and the four horsemen.

I don’t want Apocalpyse and the Horsemen rushed, i didn’t want Phoenix rushed, I don’t want anything rushed. Do you really want some half-baked version of your favourite comicbook characters?

You’d have to build up to Apocalypse. Not saying it couldn’t be done, but it would need someone who could balance respect for the comics with respect for the previous movies (if we are talking avout continuing the franchise) and a respect for what works oin the big screen.

The other point about Apocalypse is what does he offer on a socio-political level? He’s even more of a supremacist than Magneto, believing himself even above mutants. We’d first have to show the rise of mutants... the Hellfire Club and Sinister’s malevolent behind-the-scenes political rise to power and protecting the mutant gene pool would be the perfect introduction. Then reveal Apocalypse to be the mastermind who has used them... who is the one who created the cure to mutate into a virus...who may even have been involved with awakening Dark Phoenix.
 
X-Maniac said:
X3 was blasted for its more comicbook feel/tone and it hadn’t begun to do even half of what the comics show, it just nudged things a little closer.

Not to turn it into another X3 debate thread, but that's not why X3 was 'blasted'.
 
WorthyStevens4 said:
Not to turn it into another X3 debate thread, but that's not why X3 was 'blasted'.

Some people's dislike of X3 is based on it being too 'popcorn', too 'comicbook'. In places, it does have the FEEL/TONE/STYLE/ELEMENTS of a comicbook more than the prior two movies. Others have complained that the movie ignored and disrespected the ESSENCE of the comics in terms of changing character fates and lack of faithfulness to storyline details. Those are fair points (though I must remind people that Wolverine stabbed, or attempted to stab, Jean to death THREE TIMES in the comics including once in the original Phoenix Saga when she begged him to kill her, so that story detail didn't come out of nowhere in the movies).

Can you see Apocalypse and the Four Horsemen appearing in a Singer movie? With Rogue and Cyclops turned into evil horsemen, as some have suggested? It doesn't sound feasible to me at all.

If you are going to step out into comicbook 'fantasy' you need a reboot and you need a director like Jackson, Wachowskis, del Toro, someone who can do 'epic' and make the unbelievable seem believable.
 
Most definately Rogue, and whatever genetic screwing around Apcalyse does gives her the super strength and flight, As war
Cyclops, would explain his disappearance and bring him back. As Death.
Mystique as Pestilence.
And Mr Fantastic as Famine.
This is all a dream of course
 
LastSunrise...

Yeah, well...Jean seemed to think in part3 that she did, in fact, kill Cyclops...and not only did they not find his body, they didnt find the body of any of the people she incinerated...so you could make the case that all of them are alive.

I just really think...no...I KNOW...that with Prof X back, and Jean coming back already...that Cyclops return would make every death ever to follow in coming sequels to have ZERO emotional impact. I'm speaking about the people who watch the movie and arent comic fans...after seeing three deaths and three returns from the dead...why even give a crap when other characters die??

PS: The X Men have been without Cyclops many times over the years, the franchise continued.
 
X-Maniac said:
Some people's dislike of X3 is based on it being too 'popcorn', too 'comicbook'. In places, it does have the FEEL/TONE/STYLE/ELEMENTS of a comicbook more than the prior two movies. Others have complained that the movie ignored and disrespected the ESSENCE of the comics in terms of changing character fates and lack of faithfulness to storyline details. Those are fair points (though I must remind people that Wolverine stabbed, or attempted to stab, Jean to death THREE TIMES in the comics including once in the original Phoenix Saga when she begged him to kill her, so that story detail didn't come out of nowhere in the movies).

Can you see Apocalypse and the Four Horsemen appearing in a Singer movie? With Rogue and Cyclops turned into evil horsemen, as some have suggested? It doesn't sound feasible to me at all.

If you are going to step out into comicbook 'fantasy' you need a reboot and you need a director like Jackson, Wachowskis, del Toro, someone who can do 'epic' and make the unbelievable seem believable.

No, the idea of turning Rogue and Cyclops into Horsemen shouldn't be done and is not faithful to the material.

Can I see Apocalypse and the Four Horsemen appearing in a Singer movie? Sure, why not? Why would it be impossible? You can still incorporate the essence of the storyline despite it being set in a real world scenario.

You can still go into that very direction with a sequel. Just because it's in a real world setting doesn't mean you can't explore the realm of it. Nothing about the film is realistic in any fashion, so why the complaining?
 
Heretic said:
LastSunrise...

Yeah, well...Jean seemed to think in part3 that she did, in fact, kill Cyclops...and not only did they not find his body, they didnt find the body of any of the people she incinerated...so you could make the case that all of them are alive.

I just really think...no...I KNOW...that with Prof X back, and Jean coming back already...that Cyclops return would make every death ever to follow in coming sequels to have ZERO emotional impact. I'm speaking about the people who watch the movie and arent comic fans...after seeing three deaths and three returns from the dead...why even give a crap when other characters die??

PS: The X Men have been without Cyclops many times over the years, the franchise continued.

The difference is we watched her destroy everyone. Cyclops death scene wasn't shown and she thinks she killed Scott, but her memory is fragmented so she's made to believe she killed him.

Part of me believes it was the Phoenix making her think Scott was dead.

They don't have to bring Jean back, they can introduce Emma Frost instead.
 
X-Maniac said:
Some people's dislike of X3 is based on it being too 'popcorn', too 'comicbook'. In places, it does have the FEEL/TONE/STYLE/ELEMENTS of a comicbook more than the prior two movies. Others have complained that the movie ignored and disrespected the ESSENCE of the comics in terms of changing character fates and lack of faithfulness to storyline details. Those are fair points (though I must remind people that Wolverine stabbed, or attempted to stab, Jean to death THREE TIMES in the comics including once in the original Phoenix Saga when she begged him to kill her, so that story detail didn't come out of nowhere in the movies).

I haven't heard any complaints about the movie being too comic book. Just that it was too unlike the comic book, and of course the technical flaws that this movie had.

Can you see Apocalypse and the Four Horsemen appearing in a Singer movie? With Rogue and Cyclops turned into evil horsemen, as some have suggested? It doesn't sound feasible to me at all.

I can see Apocalypse and his troupe in a Singer movie. But just with Angel as a Horseman, with the rest being unknown mutants.

If you are going to step out into comicbook 'fantasy' you need a reboot and you need a director like Jackson, Wachowskis, del Toro, someone who can do 'epic' and make the unbelievable seem believable.

The Four Horsemen wouldn't be any more fantastical than X3's Phoenix and the Danger Room.
 
WorthyStevens4 said:
I can see Apocalypse and his troupe in a Singer movie. But just with Angel as a Horseman, with the rest being unknown mutants.

LOL :woot:
 
WorthyStevens4 said:
I can see Apocalypse and his troupe in a Singer movie. But just with Angel as a Horseman, with the rest being unknown mutants.

Are we talking about the same director who just did a brand new Superman to reinvigorate the franchise and managed to leave out Parasite, Bizzaro, Brainiac, Doomsday, Darkseid, Eradicator, Metallo, Lobo, The Authority and however many others...? Bryan's strength is NOT way-out sci-fi.

And I think it's still far too soon for Angel to become a Horseman, either as himself or as Archangel. I'm pretty sure you didn't like his brief arc in X3, so let's see more of Angel himself first before he goes evil and metallic and blue-skinned. And who would these other 'unknown mutants' be? Didn't we have enough 'unknown mutants' in X3?


WorthyStevens4 said:
The Four Horsemen wouldn't be any more fantastical than X3's Phoenix and the Danger Room.

A 3,000-year-old ancient Egyptian would be much more out there than a holographic training room or a schizo psychic. In fact, look at how the cosmic Phoenix became toned down for X3: no firebird, no massive spree of destruction in SF, no battle with the entire X-Men, no saving the whole universe by healing the M'Krann crystal, no devouring the D'Bari sun.
 
LastSunrise1981 said:
No, the idea of turning Rogue and Cyclops into Horsemen shouldn't be done and is not faithful to the material.

Why should that matter? The films have already been portraying goog guys as villains. I don't recall Psylocke, Multiple Man, and Phat being members of the BOEM. I'm still saying the only way to give Rogue and Cylcops the action and development they deseverve is to turn them into horsemen. Don't you want that for them? If their not given this kind of a purpose than they'll just be treated as cameo extras again. And I know most people don't want that.

PS I think this thread should've had a poll attached!
 
Mistopurr83 said:
Why should that matter? The films have already been portraying goog guys as villains. I don't recall Psylocke, Multiple Man, and Phat being members of the BOEM. I'm still saying the only way to give Rogue and Cylcops the action and development they deseverve is to turn them into horsemen. Don't you want that for them? If their not given this kind of a purpose than they'll just be treated as cameo extras again. And I know most people don't want that.

PS I think this thread should've had a poll attached!

I agree about the poll.

And i just dont think portarying the x-men leader as horseman is a good idea. :o
 
X-Maniac said:
Are we talking about the same director who just did a brand new Superman to reinvigorate the franchise and managed to leave out Parasite, Bizzaro, Brainiac, Doomsday, Darkseid, Eradicator, Metallo, Lobo, The Authority and however many others...? Bryan's strength is NOT way-out sci-fi.

Brainiac is a great possibility for SR2. Maybe Doomsday.

And I think it's still far too soon for Angel to become a Horseman, either as himself or as Archangel. I'm pretty sure you didn't like his brief arc in X3, so let's see more of Angel himself first before he goes evil and metallic and blue-skinned. And who would these other 'unknown mutants' be? Didn't we have enough 'unknown mutants' in X3?

I agree Angel needs more time to develop before anything can happen with a Horseman arc. They've already screwed Angel's development up, they need time to develop him more and fix the mistakes they've made with him. I'm only saying down the line he should be able to become a Horseman, if that's where the storyline takes him.

All you would need to know about those 3 unknown mutants is how Apocalypse picked them, and a little background of them. Which both could easily be explained in a short montage, with Apocalypse as narrator.

A 3,000-year-old ancient Egyptian would be much more out there than a holographic training room or a schizo psychic. In fact, look at how the cosmic Phoenix became toned down for X3: no firebird, no massive spree of destruction in SF, no battle with the entire X-Men, no saving the whole universe by healing the M'Krann crystal, no devouring the D'Bari sun.

A 3000-year old mutant wouldn't be farfetched, seeing as he's, you know, a mutant.
 
Hey didnt realise this topic got so big... Havent had time to read it all but there seems to be some speculation on how Apocalpyse could be translated to film... Well

You to me X-MEN is all about Ideology. So far the consistant Ideology has been Charles Xaviers and Eric Lenshires. The third being that of the humans.

But there are many other Ideology's brought into place by several groups of powerful or political people within the marvel or x-men that is universe.

Heres the list.

Human's - we shall defend our right to exist, even from what we fears us or do not know much about.
Xavier's - Human's and Mutants should co-exist as beings working together for a brighter future, with the rapid growth of mutants around the world humanity will become mutantiy the next step in evolution. So all we can do is work toeghet peacefully.
Magneto's - Power is power not knowledge. Mutants are supieror because it is the next step of evolution, those who step back and are unwilling to praise there new masters become enemys.
The Hellfire - Knowledge plus Power will get you everywhere, you can live like gods if you know and how the power to change life. There will always be a classing system, doesnt necesarly have to be human or mutant. But those who beat the odds and become the power.
Sinister - Mutation is a beautifle thing but it has its flaw backs, in order to refine and recreate a perfect sociaty we need to isolate the imperfect mutations, and force those unmutated to mutate. power is something that should be shared.
Apocalypse - It is a survival of the fittist, and because mutation has caused an advantage over humanity they stand above the normal. God Amongst insects. However even the Insects have to fight to become the Queen Ant!
Reavers - Technology is the future, not mutation. If they can evolve by mutation so can we via technology
Shi'ar/Alien and The Watchers - this is part of evolution, to interfier would be theres and ours undoing.
Horsemen - Survatuted, no questions, a better tomorrow
Mauraders - We believe in whatever you want us to, just as long as you pay
Weapon X - Mutants are wrong and need to be manipulated and irradicated

Thats pretty much it. But look at all those different believe structors. By loosing Magneto effectivly leaves open the role of a new belief, and from that i can only see one option feesable to the x-men saga, That of Apocaylpse. it will denote a war of which will bring several other beliefs together. Hence for Sinister to achieve what he wants to achieve he survers the rules of Apocaylpse, The Hellfire may team up with him to finacially become the power. and as for people like the brotherhood, right now are vunrable, there leader has gone.
 
Im all for bringing in new characters to replace the dead...leave Jean out of it and bring in Emma, thats fine...

OH YEAH! I want Pyro to be a Horseman...his story so far has only given him a downward slide, and I think that should continue...noone would feel bad about the X Men killing Pyro...yet if you had a character who is a good guy get turned by Apocalypse then it would be a conflicted fight...and I think the story demands a full on hatred of everything involved with Apocalypse.
 
LastSunrise1981 said:
No, the idea of turning Rogue and Cyclops into Horsemen shouldn't be done and is not faithful to the material.

Can I see Apocalypse and the Four Horsemen appearing in a Singer movie? Sure, why not? Why would it be impossible? You can still incorporate the essence of the storyline despite it being set in a real world scenario.

You can still go into that very direction with a sequel. Just because it's in a real world setting doesn't mean you can't explore the realm of it. Nothing about the film is realistic in any fashion, so why the complaining?

well it wasn't faithful to material when they "killed" Cyclops and cured Rogue.

I would love to see Rogue as a Horsemen
 
I change my mind from my previous post. I don't think making Rogue a henchmen would be a wise choice. I think the cure should be a fake and that's hwo she gets her powers back. However, getting her powers back unhinges her and lets say she nearly kills Bobby as they remanifest she runs off. There she is lured into the Brotherhood by Mystique and Magneto who 'understand' what she's goign through.

My new pick of horsemen would be new characters not existing movie verse characters not even Angel. He's just been introduced so I think it's a bit soon to see him transformed into a horseman. I would go with
Blob as Famine
Wither as Death
Abraham Kierosas War
Plague as Pestilence
 
I think Angel is a must though...the fact that he's barely even been in the movies means he's ripe for a heel turn...less emotional attatchment from viewers.
 
Oh angel is a deffinate must, i mean look at the actor they choose, Just watch Hostage, Ben Foster can play disturbed, let him loose his winggs which would make a shocking scene then get him recruited by sinister and reborn as archangel. Excellent casting.

Gambit, Bishop and Sunfire seem logical choices.
 
Heretic said:
I think Angel is a must though...the fact that he's barely even been in the movies means he's ripe for a heel turn...less emotional attatchment from viewers.

That would ruin any kind of depth and intrigue that the original storyline had. Angel was turned into Death, but he was still Angel somewhere inside of his new formation. So to just make him a heel like that would ruin the storyline.

And this storyline completely belongs to Angel. No offense, but to the people who want Cyclops and Rogue and Mystique turned into Horsemen, what the hell? Angel should be the only (known) mutant to be turned into one of Apocalypse's brainwashed slaves.
 
MaleRogue said:
well it wasn't faithful to material when they "killed" Cyclops and cured Rogue.

I would love to see Rogue as a Horsemen

I agree. Which is why they can correct the problems by bringing by Cyclops and Rogue as X-Men true to their comic book counterparts for a sequel or a restart.

X1/X2 were far more faithful to the characters and the themes themselves than X3 ever was.

Apocalypse and the Four Horsemen needs to be done in the right and most faithful way to the story.
 
WorthyStevens4 said:
That would ruin any kind of depth and intrigue that the original storyline had. Angel was turned into Death, but he was still Angel somewhere inside of his new formation. So to just make him a heel like that would ruin the storyline.

And this storyline completely belongs to Angel. No offense, but to the people who want Cyclops and Rogue and Mystique turned into Horsemen, what the hell? Angel should be the only (known) mutant to be turned into one of Apocalypse's brainwashed slaves.

hey, I'm just dealing with the cards the movies have dealt us...so many of you want to erase some of the crap the movies have done...I dont...I simply want them to carry on with better stories, yet not contradict what went before or lessen the impact of future stories by bringing characters back.
 

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