Who is to blame for Batman & Robin?

[BatmanEVH]

This got me thinking today. Joel Schumacher's movies are nothing like Batman and Robin, such as Lost Boys, Phonebooth, Phantom of the Opera. I honestly don't think it's his fault in making B&R so campy. I think WB is to blame. They were the ones that wanted Batman to be lighter for the kids. If WB didn't ask Schumacher to make the Batman movies kid friendly, then we could of had a somewhat decent two movies. Or keep in mind, it could be Tim Burton's fault, for making Batman too dark, and then having WB ask Schumacher to make it lighter. It's all a big conspiracy I guess. Feel free to discuss.

 

[Carusos Shades]

I still put the blame squarely at Schumacher and Goldsman feet. Sure,they asked him to lighten it a bit but thats no excuse for creating a gaudy,grotesquely OTT 2 hour toy commercial.

 

[Bat-Mite]

"If you don't like [Batman and Robin], blame the director."

Joel himself said that he deserves the blame, but I don't think the poor man should take ALL of the blame. There were many people who contributed to what Batman and Robin became, including the script writer. Schumacher also stated that the WB wanted to make the movie a giant toy commercial. If he were trying to play the victim and push all the blame off on the WB, I might think he was lying. But he's taken responsibility for his part in the movie and he's apologized to the fans, so I think he was telling the truth.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

The Soccer Moms of America for complaining to McDonald's, thinking Batman Returns was too dark.

And then McDonald's complaining to WB because they couldn't sell Happy Meals because the Soccer Moms wouldn't let their kids have toys from a dark movie.

And then WB for caring more about merchandise sales than artistic integrity.

 

[CFE]

Ultimately, the blame is spread between Complaining parents, Warner Bros, Joel Schumacher, Akiva Goldsman and Peter MacGregor Scott.

The biggest portion of that goes to Warners. BC they were the ones with the forced hand telling Schumacher to "Brighten it up for children."

Joel was nothing more than a puppet being controlled by Warners in this sense.

And given the circumstances Warners. forced upon him, Schumacher succeeded in achieving what the studio wanted; which not surprisingly backfired on them BC it's what their target audience didn't want.

But on the plus side it IS nice to have a Batman film I'll be able to sit down with my kids and watch without worrying if they get too frightened. Then once they get older I can open them up to the "Batman Returns" and such...

CFE

 

[MrNapier]

Voting is impossible - where is the proper choice?
"1: Akiva Goldsman."

 

[CFE]

Voting is impossible - where is the proper choice?
"1: Akiva Goldsman."

Akiva was hired to do a job...it's not his fault what the job was.

CFE

 

[Mr. Socko]

WB as well as the artistic integrity behind the film. They're both to blame, but since that's not an option, I won't vote.

 

[The Shredder]

WB and the Batman merchandising machine. Schumacher, while a good director for the most part, telling actor's "Ok, remember people. It's a cartoon!" didnt help matters at all. Of course Joel doesnt deserve ALL the blame. But he does deserve the recognition he has recieved, since afterall, he fully admitted on the SE DVD that he knew what he was getting himself into by doing B&R, and agreed to do the job on WB's terms.

 

[Noir]

Akiva is to blame, not the director, The Director only gives the emotion to the film, the plot points and dialouge is already written and written poorly by a smuck writer.

 

[CFE]

Akiva is to blame, not the director, The Director only gives the emotion to the film, the plot points and dialouge is already written and written poorly by a smuck writer.

Who in turn was hired by a studio looking to make a smuck film that brightened up the material.

Blame abounds, but Warners. recieves the biggest portion of that blame no question...

CFE

 

[Noir]

your right.. But its been proven that Akiva is a smuck writer..

 

[Mr. Socko]

Akiva is to blame, not the director, The Director only gives the emotion to the film, the plot points and dialouge is already written and written poorly by a smuck writer.

And it was Schumacher who decided on the final script. A part of being a good director is knowing how to pick out a good script, if you don't write them yourself.


That's like me blaming Rick Baker for Two Face looking stupid, when in fact, it was Schumacher who told Baker to make him look that way.

 

[CFE]

your right.. But its been proven that Akiva is a smuck writer..

Yeah..."Lost in Space" is another 'good' example of Akiva's writing...

CFE

 

[The Shredder]

Yeah..."Lost in Space" is another 'good' example of Akiva's writing...

CFE

He certainly had a track record going.

 

[Noir]

Yeah..."Lost in Space" is another 'good' example of Akiva's writing...

CFE

"The Da vinci Code"

 

[Acid Snowman]

I've never liked Joel's films, but I don't think he's a bad director, just my opinion. I think the blame is on Warner Bros. completely, as Joel stated that after Batman and Robin he'd make "Batman Triumphant", which he proudly stated would be the darkest of the films.

 

[Noir]

I've never liked Joel's films..

Seriously? Phone Booth? The Client? The Lost Boys? The Phantom of the Opera? Saint Elmo's Fire?

 

[Acid Snowman]

Seriously? Phone Booth? The Client? The Lost Boys? The Phantom of the Opera? Saint Elmo's Fire?

Let me rephrase; I respect Joel as a good director, I just never really clicked with his films. The Client was an interesting enough thriller for people who like them, but I'm not a fan of John Grisham style stories.
Phone Booth was good, but I thought it was overated (although I saw it when I was quite young, so I'm not sure what I got what exactly the film was 'about') I didn't like the Phantom of the Opera at all, and I've never seen the other two (although I recall being told that Saint Elmo's Fire was great). Plus, he has a habit of making duds below his standards (too many then I would care to count). I'll be sure to look out for more of his movies.

 

[Mr. Socko]

Seriously? Phone Booth? The Client? The Lost Boys? The Phantom of the Opera? Saint Elmo's Fire?

Phone Booth, Elmo's Fire, & Lost Boys! Really good movies.

 

[LegendaryCaleb]

This got me thinking today. Joel Schumacher's movies are nothing like Batman and Robin, such as Lost Boys, Phonebooth, Phantom of the Opera. I honestly don't think it's his fault in making B&R so campy. I think WB is to blame. They were the ones that wanted Batman to be lighter for the kids. If WB didn't ask Schumacher to make the Batman movies kid friendly, then we could of had a somewhat decent two movies. Or keep in mind, it could be Tim Burton's fault, for making Batman too dark, and then having WB ask Schumacher to make it lighter. It's all a big conspiracy I guess. Feel free to discuss.

not Burtons fault...Batman was certainly not too dark in Burtons flicks...
I still blame Schumacher and those annoying parents after Return

 

[GoogleMe94]

yeah, should have put an option "the parents who complained about BR".

as for me, i chose the studio. the franchise was still in its early stage and WB found this a perfect time to cash in on the merchandise, toys, etc. but Returns was not meant to sell toys, not really. it was meant to be a good film with batman. so the studio wanted to make a more "toyetic" batman to sell toys and mcdonals mugs and happy meals, case in point, "i'll get drive through". Forever was like this but still had some, and i mean SOME, darkness to it. studio liked this, and wanted an even kiddier batman film, which is what schumacher was asked to do, and did what he was told by the studio.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Please don't tell me I have to post my 'Warner Bros never told Schumacher to include....." list yet again.

Schumacher directed the movie. No-one else.

Many, many directors have to make movies with intense studio pressure and need to sell action figures. It's a fact of life making blockbusters.

 

[Noir]

Big Font.
must be true.

 

[El Payaso]

When Michael Keaton saw what they were going to do with the ranchise, he said no. No matter how much money was on the line.

When Schumacher was asked to make a 2 hours toy commercial, he said yes.

Is he to blame then? Of course.

Has he admitted his guilt? Yes he has.

Does that admision make him any less guilty? Hell no. Why would it?

Schumacher is to blame. Sure, WB wanted it that way but I don't see blame as a cake you cut to pieces and then give out between people involved. Schumacher, Akiva, WB, they're all equally guilty, but not because they endede up having same percentage of guilt out of a whole: they're 100% guilty, each of them.

Schumacher is 100% for this piece of garbage.