Batman Begins Who still likes/thinks Begins is better than TDK?

[TheBatman1]

I love both Batman Begins and the Dark Knight equally. Both are excellent films. Batman Begins is the beginning of Chris's story, And the Dark Knight is the middle part of the story. Both films are connected in terms of story. BB set up the Dark Knight with the Joker card and the theme of escalation. I think that since the Dark Knight was released, Batman Begins just looks better then it did back in 2005. TDK helped me enjoy BB more. If that makes sense. But I love both films.

 

[El Payaso]

I love both Batman Begins and the Dark Knight equally. Both are excellent films. Batman Begins is the beginning of Chris's story, And the Dark Knight is the middle part of the story.

Who is Chris???

I think that since the Dark Knight was released, Batman Begins just looks better then it did back in 2005.

It proved that Begins should and could have been much better.

 

[TheBatman1]

Who is Chris???



It proved that Begins should and could have been much better.

Chris Nolan.

 

[FatmanReturns]

Batman Begins just seems to have more of a concise, clear vision that I don't think The Dark Knight really had. And no matter how long I try to come up with something else, the biggest reason BB works much better than TDK is the color palette. Begins was tied together with the rusty gold/orange color scheme. The Dark Knight was all over the place with blue, orange, and even white. Batman Begins, in my mind, was just a more successful film because of this.

 

[returntovoid]

I have so many more bias problems with TDK, here they are below.

-I thought the Batsuit was aesthetically horrible and not scary in any way unlike the one in Batman Begins

-The fight scenes may be a bit clearer but they lack the excitement/kinetic energy of the ones in Batman Begins

-Not enough focus on Batman, there was more focus than in the Schumacher films but less focus than in Batman Begins, Batman 1989 and Batman Returns

-Batman lacked the powerful presence, it's not just about screen time but powerful/iconic impact that Batman has whenever he's comes on the screen, I got that in Batman Begins, Batman 1989 and Batman Returns but not TDK

-Bringing Rachel Dawes back was pointless to me because Batman's relationships with ordinary women are not that strong, besides she seemed totally done with him in Batman Begins and was just a lame damsel-in-distress character that doesn't like him as Batman after all. I would have preferred if they used Catwoman instead. Don't bring the excuse that she brought tragedy to Harvey Dent because the Gilda character from the comics could have been used for that plus I hated the unnecessary/sappy love triangle of Rachel, Harvey and Bruce

-I didn't like the fact that Batman considered giving up his persona because The Joker killed some innocents, I mean Batman is only human he can only save innocents that he is able to save instead of whining, he could have just gone and kick The Joker's a** to get it over with because the murder of those innocents was a sin committed by The Joker not Batman. Besides, giving up is like him throwing away his soul because let's face it, Bruce Wayne is the facade and Batman is the real person

-I didn't like the fact that Batman took the blame for a golden boy-turned-psychopath even though he was a good person that fell to tragedy, I think Batman should still let the truth out. This message of lying for the public felt morally wrong to me

-Heath Ledger's Joker may have been well acted/unique and I liked some bits like the pencil trick and bazooka but to be honest, overall I didn't enjoy this Joker as much as the one played by Jack Nicholson, this Joker didn't hysterically laugh that much, didn't use any iconic deadly toys/gags to kill people or use laughing gas, his humor didn't hit my laughter nerves and just was too much of a terrorist that I might as well call him Osama Bin Joker

-Batman hardly used any of his iconic gadgets, he could have used the Bat-grapple to break the two fall he had

-Batman didn't act much Batman-ish, was too naive, unsure, un-scary and they made The Joker seem more intellectual than him

-Gotham City lacked the atmosphere that was present in Batman Begins, no iconic shots of Batman and I didn't feel that I entered Batman's world in any way

-Batman was no longer the mythical creature of the night/terror striking from the shadows that he was in Batman Begins

-The film lacked the fun/excitement instead tried too hard to be a serious/very realistic crime-drama

-The pacing was too fast with no space to let the story breathe

-Throughout the film early on, I just felt like Bruce Wayne wanted to give up his Batman mantle just to be with Rachel and this just reminded me of Spiderman not Batman (talk about case a of "out-of-character")

-Not enough light/comic relief moments, the only thing that came close was the line "I don't wear hockey-pads"

Whereas with Batman Begins, I had very few problems plus they are more minor, easily ignorable and don't effect my enjoyment of the films. Here they are below.

-Nolan could have used a different material for the Batsuit instead of the over-done rubber approach but nevermind, the Batsuit was great nonetheless

-The fight scenes could have been better but this no longer bothers me since they are better than the ones in TDK and at least there is a kinetic energy/excitement to them

-The Rachel Dawes should have not been created instead they could use someone else from the comics or no love interest but nevermind

-They should have went with the original plan Harvey Dent D.A. instead of Rachel Dawes D.A. but nevermind

-The score could have been better but there are so many great things about the film that make up for it, especially the atmosphere.

 

[returntovoid]

edit: f***ing double post!!

 

[racsome]

BB had much more of an emotional stake in it…

But what bothered me in TDK was how easily the Joker could beat down Bats. I also didn’t like how they got rid of the original Wayne Tower. The “feel” of Gotham City was different.

 

[General Vulcun]

I have so many more bias problems with TDK, here they are below.

-I thought the Batsuit was aesthetically horrible and not scary in any way unlike the one in Batman Begins

-The fight scenes may be a bit clearer but they lack the excitement/kinetic energy of the ones in Batman Begins

-Not enough focus on Batman, there was more focus than in the Schumacher films but less focus than in Batman Begins, Batman 1989 and Batman Returns

-Batman lacked the powerful presence, it's not just about screen time but powerful/iconic impact that Batman has whenever he's comes on the screen, I got that in Batman Begins, Batman 1989 and Batman Returns but not TDK

-Bringing Rachel Dawes back was pointless to me because Batman's relationships with ordinary women are not that strong, besides she seemed totally done with him in Batman Begins and was just a lame damsel-in-distress character that doesn't like him as Batman after all. I would have preferred if they used Catwoman instead. Don't bring the excuse that she brought tragedy to Harvey Dent because the Gilda character from the comics could have been used for that plus I hated the unnecessary/sappy love triangle of Rachel, Harvey and Bruce

-I didn't like the fact that Batman considered giving up his persona because The Joker killed some innocents, I mean Batman is only human he can only save innocents that he is able to save instead of whining, he could have just gone and kick The Joker's a** to get it over with because the murder of those innocents was a sin committed by The Joker not Batman. Besides, giving up is like him throwing away his soul because let's face it, Bruce Wayne is the facade and Batman is the real person

-I didn't like the fact that Batman took the blame for a golden boy-turned-psychopath even though he was a good person that fell to tragedy, I think Batman should still let the truth out. This message of lying for the public felt morally wrong to me

-Heath Ledger's Joker may have been well acted/unique and I liked some bits like the pencil trick and bazooka but to be honest, overall I didn't enjoy this Joker as much as the one played by Jack Nicholson, this Joker didn't hysterically laugh that much, didn't use any iconic deadly toys/gags to kill people or use laughing gas, his humor didn't hit my laughter nerves and just was too much of a terrorist that I might as well call him Osama Bin Joker

-Batman hardly used any of his iconic gadgets, he could have used the Bat-grapple to break the two fall he had

-Batman didn't act much Batman-ish, was too naive, unsure, un-scary and they made The Joker seem more intellectual than him

-Gotham City lacked the atmosphere that was present in Batman Begins, no iconic shots of Batman and I didn't feel that I entered Batman's world in any way

-Batman was no longer the mythical creature of the night/terror striking from the shadows that he was in Batman Begins

-The film lacked the fun/excitement instead tried too hard to be a serious/very realistic crime-drama

-The pacing was too fast with no space to let the story breathe

-Throughout the film early on, I just felt like Bruce Wayne wanted to give up his Batman mantle just to be with Rachel and this just reminded me of Spiderman not Batman (talk about case a of "out-of-character")

-Not enough light/comic relief moments, the only thing that came close was the line "I don't wear hockey-pads"

Whereas with Batman Begins, I had very few problems plus they are more minor, easily ignorable and don't effect my enjoyment of the films. Here they are below.

-Nolan could have used a different material for the Batsuit instead of the over-done rubber approach but nevermind, the Batsuit was great nonetheless

-The fight scenes could have been better but this no longer bothers me since they are better than the ones in TDK and at least there is a kinetic energy/excitement to them

-The Rachel Dawes should have not been created instead they could use someone else from the comics or no love interest but nevermind

-They should have went with the original plan Harvey Dent D.A. instead of Rachel Dawes D.A. but nevermind

-The score could have been better but there are so many great things about the film that make up for it, especially the atmosphere.

I can see where you coming from on the aesthetic of the Batsuit, only because it looks kinda baggy (love the chainmail), but your POV on the story elements and your lack of understanding for why some of them are there and why they fit together and the characterization Batman, along with some needless nitpickings like "not enough iconic gadgets" and "Rachel shouldn't be there, use a comics character"...no offense, but you have a pretty crappy perception on the whole of TDK. Sorry.

Batman Begins has a much smoother feel to it, mainly because the story isn't as tightly constructed as TDK. TDK is definately the better movie, but the one thing holding it back from having that smoothness is the runtime, which should have been longer. The smoothness of the first 2 Acts was perfect (we're dealing with a 4 Act structure here), but once Dent rips off the bandages the pacing seems to get a tad choppy and everything is just *bang* *bang* *bang*, one after another until after Batman defeats The Joker and goes after Harvey. Adding in a few extra minutes in specific parts, like the transition from Act 2 to Act 3, making not only transitions between Acts but transitions between some scenes as well, and TDK becomes a much better experience.

 

[racsome]

Plus, Rachel Dawes came off a little odd since she's been romantically involved with the past two DA's... glad they got rid of her. Maggie Gillen-whatever didn't really bring anything to the character. Anybody could have done that role.

 

[jb007]

Better than TDK. No, but certainly on par with it.