Who Was The Green Goblin?

[Arcturus]

I'm going to have to agree with Sarcastic Fan. Even when I watched the Uncertainty Principle, I thought there more to the story then was revealed.

 

[vegeta21]

Anyone who is a fan of Gargoyles knows that Greg Weisman has a tendency for things to not always be as they appear.

 

[ReggieWhiteJr]

Norman is a better actor than MJ. Seriously, that was a masterful performance.

 

[Anwar]

Well, that's a small bit of bad analogy MJ was always portrayed as a struggling actress not some mega-success. Her real claim to fame was modeling.

But yeah, Norman's the man.

 

[PJBoy]

Chameleon is most likely involved in some way.

Absolutely

 

[ReggieWhiteJr]

Anyone who is a fan of Gargoyles knows that Greg Weisman has a tendency for things to not always be as they appear.

Man, that show was superb. No surprise this one is too. With this episode, we were shown that the Goblin mystery is far from over. I'm guessing Gobby will lay low for a while.

 

[Styleshift]

Nothing is ever as it seems with Norman...
I still say the dialog was a clue as to which goblin is which.

In the comics the green goblin referred to himself in 3rd person. (when he was norman.)
Harry never did this as the goblin.

So I think thats a big tip that the gobby in Catalyst was norman. I think harry caught norman using the formula. and stole it for himself later...than eventually norman caught harry stealing it...and began using him

it makes more sense for harry to know what that stuff does before actually drinking it. (seeing his father improve from using it.) than for him to throw random chemicals down his throat.

 

[spider-neil]

watched the episode AGAIN (definately getting the dvds this show has so much rewatch value) and my own personal observations are thus

a) spidey shouts out he knows norman is the goblin and osborn's address is obviously common knowledge so norman knew spidey would be coming more than enough time to make preperations for harry to take the fall.

as someone else mentioned spidey was out of web fliud so would have taken him (spidey) AGES to reach the osborn residence.

b) when harry is trying to take off the mask he is doing it in a desparate manner like you or I would if we woke up with a bag over our heads and the first thing he says when the mask is off is 'what am I doing with a goblin costume I had a cheerleader outfit' (parapharasing)

c) over the secret chamber which norman exits there is a pumpkin mask

d) norman goes to work through the front door the way the security talks he (the guard) sounds surprised which leads me to believe norman has a private entrance, an imposter wouldn't know this. once in his office 'norman' starts downloading all his files, why would he need to do this they are HIS files I'm pretty sure he has thoses files at home and at work, when he ('norman') here's the explosion and the assistant tells him there is a thief he say 'a thief? here? what'd 'HE' steal' which inplies more than one thief.

the look on goblins face was weird my interpritation(sp) is this, norman was wearing the goblin outfit stealing more tech and then saw 'norman' which must has freaked him out a little but was short on time so couldn't deal with the imposter.

I'm starting to think harry at no point was the goblin and the time you see him in the outfit norman put him in the outfit and damaged his leg.
my guess is norman knows harry is taking early versions of his goblin drink with all the side effects (memory lose/blackouts) and used this to his advantage.

 

[Don Yoyo]

once in his office 'norman' starts downloading all his files, why would he need to do this they are HIS files

It might be files that are stocked on another drive in the complex, because I don't think he has everything on a laptop. When he needs specifics on a certain subject, he just takes them where they are and look at the info on his laptop.

c) over the secret chamber which norman exits there is a pumpkin mask

I'm not a specialist about 616 GG, but I heard that he took that costume because of some fantasy creature that really scared him in his youth, right? So what if they changed it a little, and made Harry afraid of all the masks his father seemed to love, that he would use when under the Goblin persona?

 

[FNSpidey]

It might be files that are stocked on another drive in the complex, because I don't think he has everything on a laptop. When he needs specifics on a certain subject, he just takes them where they are and look at the info on his laptop.

It might be, but why show the viewers he's downloading something? If it was just that, I'd accept it as a red herring, but the guard commenting on his presence and "Norman's" reactions upon hearing about a thief indicate something more is at work here.

I'm not a specialist about 616 GG, but I heard that he took that costume because of some fantasy creature that really scared him in his youth, right? So what if they changed it a little, and made Harry afraid of all the masks his father seemed to love, that he would use when under the Goblin persona?

That's precisely right, his father threw Norman in an empty mansion at night (no lights of course) and Norman was terrified of a goblin-like creature he thought he heard. Of course, it could be that the producers made Harry afraid of the mask. But as mentioned many times elsewhere, revealing Harry as the Goblin would not only be obvious and unfaithful to the source, but a lot of little clues (like the tidbits about Norman above) would fall flat and indicate bad writing.

So, I still think Norman's the Goblin. If they said otherwise, I'd be very disappointed. Not because I'm a fanboy purist, but because it'd mean I overestimated the show's writers. Instead, revealing Norman as the Goblin would prove they meticulously placed all those little clues there for a reason and still played their cards so right they even had us hardcore fans doubting the truth. So, with one stroke we could have masterful writing, faithfulness to the source and Norman/GG as a manipulating SOB, deserving of the title of Spidey's greatest enemy.

 

[rohitiyer]

Hey everyone,

Great ideas! One question though - who is in the goblin suit when the goblin attacks Oscorp industries and what's the explanation for that?

 

[vinny2]

Hey everyone,

Great ideas! One question though - who is in the goblin suit when the goblin attacks Oscorp industries and what's the explanation for that?

Norman was the Goblin and Chameleon was Norman.

 

[spider-neil]

Hey everyone,

Great ideas! One question though - who is in the goblin suit when the goblin attacks Oscorp industries and what's the explanation for that?

to completely remove suspicion from norman osborn, if norman solely went after the bigman all fingers would point at norman as you saw when hammerhead confronted norman.

the only sticking point for me is why would norman attempt to take out doc ock? the only explanation I can come up with is he was tired of the doc's continual failures.

 

[Nathan]

the only sticking point for me is why would norman attempt to take out doc ock? the only explanation I can come up with is he was tired of the doc's continual failures.

Or because Otto is the one that could bring Norman behind bars, because he's the only person that could connect Norman to the superfreaks he helped create. Which Hammerhead reminded Norman so nicely of in a previous episode.

 

[Don Yoyo]

It might be, but why show the viewers he's downloading something? If it was just that, I'd accept it as a red herring, but the guard commenting on his presence and "Norman's" reactions upon hearing about a thief indicate something more is at work here.

There is another thing : okay, he downloads files, but where is he going to put them??? I didn't see a hard-drive or some kind of key to stock the data he would have stolen.

But as mentioned many times elsewhere, revealing Harry as the Goblin would not only be obvious and unfaithful to the source, but a lot of little clues (like the tidbits about Norman above) would fall flat and indicate bad writing.

Well given the way people are focusing so much on details and discussing about it on the web, I wouldn't be surprised if authors used those just to get everyone thinking and finally proven completely wrong t:

To put it clearly, I really don't think that Norman was the GG at any point. But I do believe that Harry stealing the Globulin Green, hearing about all the technology in Oscorp could be a way for Norman to test the formula and the weaponry. Basically, he would have made sure that his son had the opportunity to steal the formula and then would have monitored him to see what would happen.

 

[ReggieWhiteJr]

Saw it again last night. All the people saying Harry is the Goblin seem to overlook that when he took of the mask, he seemed to be gasping for air, an indicator that he has no idea how he got into that costume.

 

[FNSpidey]

There is another thing : okay, he downloads files, but where is he going to put them??? I didn't see a hard-drive or some kind of key to stock the data he would have stolen.

You have a point there, although would we really need to see a flash disk or something?

Well given the way people are focusing so much on details and discussing about it on the web, I wouldn't be surprised if authors used those just to get everyone thinking and finally proven completely wrong t:

To put it clearly, I really don't think that Norman was the GG at any point. But I do believe that Harry stealing the Globulin Green, hearing about all the technology in Oscorp could be a way for Norman to test the formula and the weaponry. Basically, he would have made sure that his son had the opportunity to steal the formula and then would have monitored him to see what would happen.

You might be right, but having all those clues leading to something is -to me at least- better writing than throwing them in there with little or no explanation. As I mentioned elsewhere, if Harry is indeed the Goblin, I'd like to see how they'll explain his still punch-soaked hands, after putting on a gloved costume, flying around, fighting a couple of foes, removing the costume and putting on his regular clothes. Either he's not the Goblin, or it was a mistake in animation.

 

[FNSpidey]

Saw it again last night. All the people saying Harry is the Goblin seem to overlook that when he took of the mask, he seemed to be gasping for air, an indicator that he has no idea how he got into that costume.

Playing the devil's advocate here, but this doesn't really prove anything. If the Goblin is another personality of Harry's, then the "Harry" personality wouldn't remember putting the costume on.

 

[Nathan]

I'd rather have an explanation about what kind of weird punch they were drinking that turned his hands and suit purple like he stuck them into a bucket of paint.

 

[ReggieWhiteJr]

Playing the devil's advocate here, but this doesn't really prove anything. If the Goblin is another personality of Harry's, then the "Harry" personality wouldn't remember putting the costume on.

I doubt it's another personality. Remember Harry has been having black outs due to the green goop. Norman dressed him up and then made up that whole story about Harry developing another personality under the influence of the formula.

 

[Nathan]

How do you explain Harry limping then? I doubt Norman would go as far as hurting his own son on purpose.

 

[ReggieWhiteJr]

How do you explain Harry limping then? I doubt Norman would go as far as hurting his own son on purpose.

Norman went to great lengths to set up his son so he could have very well injured him to help his cause.

 

[FNSpidey]

How do you explain Harry limping then? I doubt Norman would go as far as hurting his own son on purpose.

I do hope they'll reveal Norman injured him on purpose, as this is exactly the kind of man Norman is and it'll introduce a more serious tone in the series. That said, there are other ways of handling this, such as Chameleon, or Harry being somehow already injured and Norman faking his limp. We'll see how it'll play out.

 

[Don Yoyo]

You might be right, but having all those clues leading to something is

Speaking of clue, I personnaly think the fact that we see the Goblin's eye on Harry's face through the Green (when Gwen speaks to him) means something

 

[Parquagh]

Speaking of clue, I personnaly think the fact that we see the Goblin's eye on Harry's face through the Green (when Gwen speaks to him) means something

yeah, at some point Harry will be the goblin, maybe in a couple of seasons, but not now, my guess at this point is Norman