Comics why are they ruining spider-man?

[14k london spider]

Why are people acting like this is something new though? I don't get that. During the Stan Lee days SPider-man was getting hit by Kingpin. Jeez, come on now. This isn't something new. The character gets mishandled alot but Stan Lee was doing it and so on, it's always been that way. People shouldn't try to pin it on the current team like " Damn this is what they've started".

That's slightly different. Spider-man was less experienced and grossly underestimated the king pin in those early days. Kingpin is also a kinda weird freak in that way (yeah that's a sh1tty explaination i know). Also this isn't villain v hero, this is hero v hero and under those circumstances, given that both have their own books and followings, they shouldn't compromise one for the other, but be true to both. also i think that line about "my only chance is these funky mechanical legs which were just given to me" was completely unecessary, because though you can write off mismatch wins as bad days/surprises/under-estimating, that line does all but remove all doubt that basically cap has spidey's number and makes it harder to rationalise the real reason he lost/was losing.

 

[VuMania]

Unfortunately, sometimes writers boost up other characters abilities at Spider-Man's expense. It's true that certain characters shouldn't last 3 panels against Peter Parker but especially now that Marvel has their own movie company(as well as other comics to sell),expect everybody with an upcoming movie to kick his rear.

I agree with your assertion. Basically, the writers/editors are using the popularity of their most famous character to raise the status of their other characters. What's the best way to show that Cap is the finest hand-to-hand combatant on Earth? Have him humiliate an opponent that is far stronger and faster than him. What's the best way to show that Wolverine is the best he is at what he does? Having him seriously hurt a teammate during a routine training exercise. The premise being that if Wolverine were really serious, Spider-Man would be dead.

Don't get me wrong, both Cap and Wolverine possess more knowledge of hand-to-hand than Spidey, but his superior strength, speed, agility, precognitive spider-sense and own combative experience should give him the edge. We're not talking about a rank amateur here. Spider-Man has at least a decade (as measure by the Marvel Universe....not our own timeline) of fighting experience. He is well verse on how to use his powers to the utmost degree.

To those who argue that inconsistencies have been prevalent throughout Spider-Man career, I wholeheartedly agree. Spider-Man has been "humbled" by the likes of "Mirage" (anybody remember that character?), Spot and the Trapster (Paste-Hot-Pete). That doesn't mean that we as fans should be "consistent" in our tolerance of these mistakes. WE ARE THE FAN BASE! If the character is written out of context, than we have every right to voice our disapproval.

I'm not sure how much longer this run of "B-List" Spider-Man will last. I feel that that as absurd as this may be, the editors/writers feel that if they write Spider-Man to his true potential, he will lose some of his fan base/revenue. In the end, it's all about sales and profits.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

i dont think they should have revealed his secret identity.

 

[Dragon]

Why are people acting like this is something new though? I don't get that. During the Stan Lee days SPider-man was getting hit by Kingpin. Jeez, come on now. This isn't something new. The character gets mishandled alot but Stan Lee was doing it and so on, it's always been that way. People shouldn't try to pin it on the current team like " Damn this is what they've started".

But then, you have to remember when Stan was on the book it was never clearly established just how strong the Kingpin was, or for that matter Spidey. Kingpin was shown to be able to manhandle a dozen men at once without breaking a sweat. So that would appear to be power enough to rival Spidey, at least at that point. There were no power classes and so forth then.

But nowadays People not nearly that powerful kick Spidey's ass on a regular basis.

 

[ragingdemon155]

But then, you have to remember when Stan was on the book it was never clearly established just how strong the Kingpin was, or for that matter Spidey. Kingpin was shown to be able to manhandle a dozen men at once without breaking a sweat. So that would appear to be power enough to rival Spidey, at least at that point. There were no power classes and so forth then.

But nowadays People not nearly that powerful kick Spidey's ass on a regular basis.

Writers have always downplayed Spider-man's abilities. Thats nothing new. It happened during the "Stan Lee" Era and its happening today. Some people act like this is all of a sudden something "new".

Even the "great" Stan Lee had people half Spider-man's speed and strength pummeling him at times.

 

[Dragon]

Writers have always downplayed Spider-man's abilities. Thats nothing new. It happened during the "Stan Lee" Era and its happening today. Some people act like this is all of a sudden something "new".

Even the "great" Stan Lee had people half Spider-man's speed and strength pummeling him at times.

Okay... When? Give examples that at least weren't reasonably explained. And remove the quotes when referring to Lee. Nobody's approached his standard yet.

 

[ragingdemon155]

Okay... When? Give examples that at least weren't reasonably explained. And remove the quotes when referring to Lee. Nobody's approached his standard yet.

No one has apprached his "standard" in your opinion. While I do respect his work and realize that without him Spider-man would not be...I have prefered and enjoyed other writers work over his in terms of writing Spider-man.

 

[Dragon]

No one has apprached his "standard" in your opinion. While I do respect his work and realize that without him Spider-man would not be...I have prefered and enjoyed other writers work over his in terms of writing Spider-man.

Yeah. In my opinion... So how many writers do you know that created dozens of classic characters and created a billion dollar empire?

Characters so well developed that they can survive blundering like what's going on at Marvel right now..

 

[KingOfDreams]

They don't think they're ruining Spider-Man. That's the problem.

 

[PalmerTheThing]

Marvel HAS GONE OVER THE LIMITS. >.<

 

[SpideyInATree]

Neither is the unmasking. It's been done. And its poorly handled here.

Peter, based on who we know him to be would only be unmasked if forced. And by that I mean held down and the mask pulled from his head. And this COULD lead to an interesting storyline.

That's merely just your opinion, doesn't mean that it isn't exciting nor interesting to a lot of other people.

You sir are not very smart. Otherwise you would have noticed that my complaint ISN't ABOUT the "stories" that "they" are "putting out", but rather HOW does stories are being put out. The FACTUAL mistakes and innacuracies WITHIN the stories.
FURTHERMORE, if the intent was to put interesting stories for people to enjoy, well these "interesting stories" they are coming up with are also ruining the character.
By turning Spider-man into a third rate punk, you lessen him. and I hope you will agree that you do not maximize the appeal of a character by lessening him. or by making him into a punk.
They are having Spider-man get his butt kicked IN the Spider-man comics. how many people are going to becomes fans of such a character?
imagine having the Hulk getting punched out by Spider-man IN A HULK COMIC? stupid or "interesting story"?
Yeah I believe there IS a conspiracy. I believe that the generation that grew up around the 80's were Wolverine fans who hated Spider-man. I believe THEY are now the ones writing these books and are subconsciously getting back at SM.
How else do you explain Spider-man who is more than 40 TIMES stronger, more than TWICE as fast, just as great a warrior, just as skilled a fighter than Cap and Wolverine,. getting his butt kicked by them.

You do realize that I was joking, right? But, sure, I'm a piece of dumb **** if that makes you sleep better at night.

did you even read the first post? there's nothing new interesting or exciting about suddenly making spider-man look like a rank amatuer with no greater powers than a peak human. This, right after an 'interesting' story which just powered him up by five tons or so. I don't think anyone has anything against new or interesting stories, but don't do something as pathetic as temporarily bring spidey down to Cap's power level just to further that story. that's lazy ****ty writing right there. The same conclusion of that issue could be reached without making spidey a *****, but being true to the characters abilities. Take that shiet about "he's studied all my moves, my only chance is my new tenticles he hasn't studied" and shove it up JMS's ass. All the 'move-studying' in the world isn't going to overcome a 15 ton strength advantage, superhuman speed, backed-upped by a pre cognitive sense.

I liked the issue, but the only way i could reconcile that fight was that spidey wasn't really trying, since we know from spider-man history that he has huge respect for cap and in his heart would never go for this piece of legislation anyway.

Wow, all of this simply because I share a different opinion. You don't think it's interesting or exciting, fine. I do. At least you didn't say I wasn't smart.

 

[shinlyle]

They don't think they're ruining Spider-Man. That's the problem.

Preach it!

The problem is, we have Marvel using "Shock Tactics" to sell books. It keeps people buying(for the most part) because they are afraid that they'll miss a major development, no matter how horrible or out of character it may be. They shake up the status quo every single month, and nothing is safe. To some people, this is exciting, and it encourages them to rally behind stories that truly put the hero in a tough position that he wouldn't normally face. Usually, whether or not people support the change, they'll continue to buy it, regardless.

Then they push it too far...like they have with Spider-Man.

ONE shocking storyline that changes everything is okay, even welcomed. It's when they do a "shocking" storyline every arc that the readership tends to look away. The whole point of having a status quo is that you HAVE something that you can shake-up. Right now, the "Shake-up" is Spidey's status quo...and that makes for an annoying read. Each arc for the past year or two has dealt with change after change. What happens when they run out of characters to kill and changes they can intitiate? Simple...they'll have no one left to read the book, and the fans will be hesitant to come back.

We went from "Sins Past" ruining Gwen to "Skin Deep" blowing up the Parker homestead to "Hydra" showcasing Pete's life as an Avenger to "The Other" ruining Peter's origin to "Mr. Parker goes to Washington making Peter a sidekick to Iron Man to "Spider-Man Unmasked" finishing off what little bit was left of the hero we knew.

Sound about right?

Now, for those of you who like the unmasking, fine. You're entitled. In the context of Civil War, I like it as well....it's just that it is in continuity, meaning that we'll never get his secret identity back without some "Crisis-like" event that we have to buy a gazillion tie-ins of just to keep track of what's going on.

So...when this is over, and MJ and Aunt May are wormfood, and Civil War is nothing more than another Hardcover with a 29.99 price tag on it, what happens then?

I guess we just watch emo-spider go around by himself with no friends (they're all dead or afraid they'll get killed), no colleagues (he'll have pissed them all off in Civil War), and no family (GG or Venom or Electro or one of the other 23,000 foes Spidey has fought will kill them both, I'm sure of it) and we'll be left with an "Incredible Hulk" TV show version of Spider-Man.

 

[Doc Destruction]

Wow, Shinlyle and I didn't really have to post for a while on this one.

SIAT - The unmasking has been done. With the same character. In USM. NOT exciting, NOT fresh. NOT new. STILL lame.

I agree with pretty much all that's been said here. I really miss reading good Spidey stories. Thank God for Spider-Girl.

 

[NateGray]

That's merely just your opinion, doesn't mean that it isn't exciting nor interesting to a lot of other people.



You do realize that I was joking, right? But, sure, I'm a piece of dumb **** if that makes you sleep better at night.



Wow, all of this simply because I share a different opinion. You don't think it's interesting or exciting, fine. I do. At least you didn't say I wasn't smart.

Well you are just wrong even Stan Lee said that Spiderman would never willingly unmask....
Just watch who wants to be a superhero he says it in one of the later episodes so no even Stan thinks its something Spiderman would not do so exactly how are you going to spin this as its a good idea still when Spidermans creator doesn't think it is....

 

[Doc Destruction]

Oh thanks, Shin...now I'm whistling that damn theme song. Grrr!

 

[shinlyle]

Oh thanks, Shin...now I'm whistling that damn theme song. Grrr!

I know...I've got that scene from Family Guy where Stewie is walking away to the same theme....

What a great episode...

 

[Joker]

Surely sir, you misunderstand us lower level comic fans who feel compelled to buy the comics whether we like the way it's going or not. We do so based on such strong nostalgia but also out of hope that if we just hold on, things will get better. There's also the crack analogy. These comics are our crack. May be bad for us with their ****ty writing and haphazzard characterisation, but we will take our bad medicine all the same. Does that mean we have to shut up? No. Being able to admit what we're consuming is bad product, is winning half the battle.

To the chap above who spent 1/5 an hour of his life pouring his broken heart into an internet thread - they're ruining Spider-Man because controversy sells units. Static status does not.

no, saying your consuming a bad product and refusing to stop is essentially saying "hi, I'm an idiot consumer, go right ahead and f**k me in the ass"...I hated the last Venom series, and even though I really like Venom when he's done right, I dropped that s**t like it was hot. I'll probably drop Action Comics if it doesnt get alot better really quick. And the "comics are crack" analogy doesnt work, because if you get some bad crack, there arent 100's of other kinds of crack on the market that cost the exact same amount and are easily accessible from your same dealer. The truth of the matter I think is that you guys just like to whine and b**ch, that's the part of the whole thing that really gets you all off.

 

[Doc Destruction]

Actually, no it really isn't. What WOULD get us all off is SOME FREAKING DECENT WRITTEN BOOKS.

 

[Joker]

Actually, no it really isn't. What WOULD get us all off is SOME FREAKING DECENT WRITTEN BOOKS.

I can name 10 great written books of the top of my head, but you guys wouldnt care, because you're still reading Spider-Man, who you supposedly hate so much at this point. If you want something that you think is written well, then drop Spidey, take your money, and try something else...may I suggest...

Punisher
Daredevil
Detective Comics
Batman
Superman
The Flash
Nextwave
the upcoming Buffy the Vampire Slayer comic
Astonishing X-Men
anything Ultimate
I've heard great things about Spider-Girl

any of those. But you won't do it, because for some reason you guys seem to love reading things you claim to hate.

 

[Doc Destruction]

Well, I was referring to Spider-Man books. And we ARE in the Spider-Man forum. Hence, the complaints.

Now if you'd like to go into the forums related to the other books you listed, you would probably see much less complaining.

 

[Doc Destruction]

Oh, and I'm NOT reading any Spider-Man titles right now. I come here in the blind hope that things might get better at some point. I'm not so sure that will happen anytime soon at this rate.

 

[shinlyle]

I have to agree with Joker on the whole "buying books that you know are bad" thing. That is probably the stupidest thing ever. That's like buying a car you know is a P.O.S. or dating an ugly chick....it's fun until your friends find out.

As for "good Spidey books", there's Ultimate Spider-Man and Spider-Girl....Sensational hads it's merits....but ASM and FNSM suck hoover-style.

And yes, Joker, Punisher MAX and Daredevil are the best freakin' books in the world....and "The Boys" by Garth Ennis and Darick Robertson....that book rocks hard!!

How good is Batman by Grant Morrison and Andy Kubert, anyways? I missed the first issue and I was wondering if it is worth picking up. Last I read, they brought back Jason Todd, made Leslie Thompkins a murderer, and pretty much ruined the Bat-books for me.

 

[shinlyle]

Oh, and I'm NOT reading any Spider-Man titles right now. I come here in the blind hope that things might get better at some point. I'm not so sure that will happen anytime soon at this rate.

616 Spidey died in FNSM #3 as part of an over-hyped crossover concieved by an egomanaical creator with delusions of grandeur and I have yet to see any sign that Spidey has come back from the dead, thus far.

Ultimate Spidey and Spider-Girl are more like 616 Spider-Man than 616 Spider-Man happens to be, at the moment.

 

[HoratioRome]

Spider-man being beaten by "lesser" foes is nothing new. This has been happening since he was first conceived. Inconsistent writing is a part of comics. It's always been around and will always be around. I don't know where the heck your getting this whole "it just started and its a conspiracy" theory now.

When did Spider-man actually get his butt kicked by Wolverine or Cap in recent history for that matter? I'm really just curious as to what your referring to cause it seems like your just blowing steam rather then actually thinking about what your saying.

correction,...SM was never "beaten" by lesser foes in the past. At most he struggled against "lesser" foes, which to be fair was also a mistake.
However, it was made very clear in the past that though SM struggled against some human level folks, he was capable of ending fights quickly against these guys as well. Basically SM fought down to the level of his enemies, until or unless he needed to put a quick stop to it.
and against people like DD, it was made clear that DD wasn't in the same class as SM by having DD ,..well pretty much say I'm not in the same class.
SM got his butt kicked by Wolverine in the recent Marvel Knight SM comics written by Reginal Hudlin. In a training session Wolverine managed to stab him in the chest and "put him in his place". Please.

in the recent amazing book, though he didn't get his butt "kicked" by Cap, it was made clear that Spider-man was to one struggling to handle Captain America. again Please.

 

[Spidermansboots]

I have checked several different boards and people are agreeing that 616 spiderman isnt that good. I just want to know why people are saying this because i was thinkin about starting or picking up one of the titles for 616. anybody have any advice on where to start or good current stories. Thanx everyone