Why Can't DC Get it right?

[The Batman]

Thats the irony--if Whedon had stayed on WW, a character he didnt understand, the final product wouldve been bashed, especially if he was gonna use an original villain like he wanted to.

Thats just a perfect example of how DC cant seem to win with some people.

 

[Tony Stark]

@ The Batman: All people have to do is click on your user name and look at your posting history too see you're a Marvel hater, and all the jealous tirades you went on after people reacted to a suprise gathering for Avengers.

Yeah I don't like Ryan Reynolds, and I've made that pretty clear numerous times, including all the way back when Blade Trinity was out, and when he was cast as Deadpool.

My facts are straight, and like I say all anyone has to do is look at your post history.

You need to grow a spine, does it really bother you that people think Marvel kicked ass at Comicon?

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

You did start a flame war and it's clearly up for anyone to view if they go over there, or view your posting history.

First off, and get this through your thick head, the Avengers WAS NOT A PANEL. It was a special treat for the fans who stayed around for the Captain America and Thor panels.

Second there was a teaser trailer that no one was expecting, and Marvel did a great job of keeping it under wraps.

Your response was just jealous whining, and it really did make me laugh, and I pulled out my Webster's 10th edition to look up fanboy and sure enough your picture was right there.

Yeah there were people saying Marvel owned DC at Comicon, because it was true. Marvel is just plain better at promotions like that. Just like Apple is way better at that than Microsoft (I'm a PC user BTW). It doesn't mean alot, other than the fact that WB/DC is horrible at promotions.

And you pulled the TDK card only to be a d***, just like you did here. I'm sure that gets you alot of friends in RL.

What you still don't seem to get, is that as comic book fans many of us want these films be it Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Hawkman, etc., etc.

The WB historically has been a hinderance to DC. The first two Superman movies were not even financed by WB. No one is here to whine, but I expect DC/Warner to get their act together and start producing some movies.

Like I say the greatest irony is that Wheadon was attached to Wonder Woman, before the project was canned. But I'm sure to you this was WB's "quality control".

From "The Avengers" Thread:









You can see here that no one had a problem with what I said....



....Until you posted.



That was my response to your stupidity.



Oh my god, I'm starting a flame war!!!

So yeah, until you get your facts straight, we have nothing else to discuss,cause you really have nothing but insults and dumb semantics. The next time you wanna air you vendetta against me dont claim I started a flame war. You guys were talking about Marvel vs DC before I posted, when I posted, and After.

I just find it funny that Tony Stark is sticking up for Marvel and The Batman's sticking up for DC.

I think Tony Stark is right though. Marvel really brought it to Comic-con and DC disappointed me because Johns said he had big news and then couldn't say anything. I know it was probably someone from WB who told him not to say anything, but that the point. WB is a hindrance to DC and they're not as free to do films as Marvel is.

Now these fans were looking for more than news Batman. It was pretty damn exciting to see all of the Avengers on one stage. And not trying to offend you, but I will admit it sounded like you were being a bit of a downer.

Marvel had shown footage of Thor, test footage of Cap (with Cap in it), and a brief teaser of the Avengers. I will admit that the GL panel had no problems with it to me, but DC doesn't have it all together yet. It will come together for them though.

 

[Tony Stark]

if you truly want to have proper DC films done you will have to take our-- well my-- word for it that it was better for Whedon to have left the WW franchise. call it a blessing in disguise. he's free to do Avengers now right? instead of slaving away on a franchise he doesnt like producing work that the studio (and the fans) hated. it all worked out for the best in the end, even if it meant WW got stalled yet again.

WB/DC is starting to produce movies other than Batman. the pace is excruciatingly slow but i think thats for several reasons (you can check my other posts for what they are), but the pressure is on them, no doubt about it. thats the effect of showcasing the Avengers cast. its a treat for the fans? sure. but its also all about power play.

If the script wasn't right, then get a new script. Can't they get a decent script writer?

DC's problem are 90% based on they have ****** executive producers. These are the guys that have to get the script writers, and get the directors, and hash all the pre-production stuff out.

The Wheadon Wonder Woman thing is a symptom of DC's ineptitude. Sure they strike gold with Nolan, but that doesn't make up for all the other failed projects.

One of the big problems is DC is not run as a subsidiary. Warner pretty much has complete control over the movie making, which is why Marvel Studios has alot more free reign, less red tape etc. I hope Disney continues to run them this way, if not Marvel could face the same problems.

 

[The Batman]

@ The Batman: All people have to do is click on your user name and look at your posting history too see you're a Marvel hater, and all the jealous tirades you went on after people reacted to a suprise gathering for Avengers.

Yeah I don't like Ryan Reynolds, and I've made that pretty clear numerous times, including all the way back when Blade Trinity was out, and when he was cast as Deadpool.

My facts are straight, and like I say all anyone has to do is look at your post history.

You need to grow a spine, does it really bother you that people think Marvel kicked ass at Comicon?

I clicked on my username, which tells me one thing: I hate some marvel fans, not marvel comics. In other words, I find people like you to be moronic and childish. That has no bearing on my opinion of marvel. In fact, you dont even know my opinion on marvel. You're just blowing smoke right now, Tony. I already proved I didnt incite a flame war, and you're trying to say "He's a marvel hater! look at his posts!" when you know no ones gonna bother to, unless their delusional fans who already have a problem with me.

 

[The Batman]

I just find it funny that Tony Stark is sticking up for Marvel and The Batman's sticking up for DC.

I think Tony Stark is right though. Marvel really brought it to Comic-con and DC disappointed me because Johns said he had big news and then couldn't say anything. I know it was probably someone from WB who told him not to say anything, but that the point. WB is a hindrance to DC and they're not as free to do films as Marvel is.

Now these fans were looking for more than news Batman. It was pretty damn exciting to see all of the Avengers on one stage. And not trying to offend you, but I will admit it sounded like you were being a bit of a downer.

Marvel had shown footage of Thor, test footage of Cap (with Cap in it), and a brief teaser of the Avengers. I will admit that the GL panel had no problems with it to me, but DC doesn't have it all together yet. It will come together for them though.

I just didnt find a bunch of actors standing together to be impressive. There was nothing new about the Avengers that we hadnt already heard, and its not that the panel was disappointing, but it wasnt marvelous either. It was just a photo op.

Kevin Feige had it right: Good news for Marvel films is good news for DC, and vice versa. But some fans wanna use that good news and act like idiots.

I mean, people wanna act like I hate marvel, but the very same day i call people out for being dumb, I also went to the thor thread and commented on how nice and enthusiastic the castmembers were in interviews, how i wanted the flick to succeed on that alone. In fact, both the Thor and Cap boards didnt feel the need to act foolish yesterday.

 

[Crook]

If the script wasn't right, then get a new script. Can't they get a decent script writer?

If this was so easy, both DC and Marvel wouldn't have a string of turds.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I just didnt find a bunch of actors standing together to be impressive. There was nothing new about the Avengers that we hadnt already heard, and its not that the panel was disappointing, but it wasnt marvelous either. It was just a photo op.

Kevin Feige had it right: Good news for Marvel films is good news for DC, and vice versa. But some fans wanna use that good news and act like idiots.

I mean, people wanna act like I hate marvel, but the very same day i call people out for being dumb, I also went to the thor thread and commented on how nice and enthusiastic the castmembers were in interviews, how i wanted the flick to succeed on that alone.

Well it was more than the Avengers. It was a combination of things like the Thor trailer, the Captain America test footage, and even a teaser for the Avengers. The latter two may not have been much, but it shows that Marvel cares about their property and it excites people.

I believe you about you liking Marvel. Don't have to prove it to me.

 

[The Batman]

Well it was more than the Avengers. It was a combination of things like the Thor trailer, the Captain America test footage, and even a teaser for the Avengers. The latter two may not have been much, but it shows that Marvel cares about their property and it excites people.

I believe you about you liking Marvel. Don't have to prove it to me.

People on the Avengers board were acting like The Avengers cast photo op ALONE was better than the GL panel. Again, I went to the Cap and Thor forums and they werent making lame jokes like "I wonder if Scarlett Johansson told her husband that her panel sucked."

 

[Hush]

Im as huge as DC fan as they come but they just do not have as good a grasp on how to bring the characters to the movie world like Marvel.

 

[Jake Cassidy]

It's too bad no one can see Bugs and Daffy anymore. My kids don't even know who they are.

You can get them on dvd.

 

[Jake Cassidy]

Looney Tunes DVDs. I got them and I love them.

So do I.

 

[Steelsheen]

I just find it funny that Tony Stark is sticking up for Marvel and The Batman's sticking up for DC.

funny how people fall into their roles around here eh?

I think Tony Stark is right though. Marvel really brought it to Comic-con and DC disappointed me because Johns said he had big news and then couldn't say anything. I know it was probably someone from WB who told him not to say anything, but that the point. WB is a hindrance to DC and they're not as free to do films as Marvel is.

WB is just generally off at the Con, even their biggest movie of the year-- Harry Potter-- got little more than a half-hearted semi-newish trailer from one of the actors added in the last minute. WB downplayed when it could've gone there with a bang, regardless of Marvel's power slate. i dunno if they're employing a new marketing strategy or what, but its affected all their properties, not just GL. it just doesnt look all that different from a comicbook fan perspective who has been following all these very closely, but if you step back and look at all its projects, all the promotions for them have generally been bland. something's up, i just couldnt put my finger on it.

If the script wasn't right, then get a new script. Can't they get a decent script writer?

you know that its never that simple. and yes they did find a promising script-- its part of the reason why Whedon was let go. but they sat on that and thats it. truthfully no one in Hollywood has a clear concept of what to do with WW or the passion for that matter. even half of the whos-who in DC barely has a good grasp of her franchise. those who really knows dont work for DC directly (like the writers, artists) and fans who dont work in Hollywood. sad fact.

One of the big problems is DC is not run as a subsidiary. Warner pretty much has complete control over the movie making, which is why Marvel Studios has alot more free reign, less red tape etc. I hope Disney continues to run them this way, if not Marvel could face the same problems.

its growing pains right now between WB and DC, trust me when i say that its much better now that DC is actually involved in the moviemaking creative process rather than being a glorified library where WB can just take material as they please. and its a combination of foresight and luck that Marvel was able to set up most of their Avengers characters franchises before the Disney merger (so yes the Cap/Thor/Avengers thing had little to do with the Mouse).

it is correct that you should be wary of the Mouse. Disney was real nice to Walden Media and the Narnia franchise when they started. but when the 2nd Narnia movie underperformed Disney was quick to cut off all ties, abandoning the franchise (and nearly killing it if Fox didnt step in). Marvel will be lucky if Disney would just let them go if one of the properties goes south in the box office. i have a feeling if Marvel screws up Disney will swallow them up like a piece of cheese.

I just didnt find a bunch of actors standing together to be impressive. There was nothing new about the Avengers that we hadnt already heard, and its not that the panel was disappointing, but it wasnt marvelous either. It was just a photo op.

it was power play dude. its written all over that photo. Marvel was brazen enough to show off its winning hand. it got people talking and excited for its properties. its true that DC will also benefit from the residual effects, after all the movie going public cant tell the difference between what is Marvel and what is DC-- their all just "superhero movies"

People on the Avengers board were acting like The Avengers cast photo op ALONE was better than the GL panel. Again, I went to the Cap and Thor forums and they werent making lame jokes like "I wonder if Scarlett Johansson told her husband that her panel sucked."

its a lot of hot air from fanboys/girls, dont let that bother you Bats, it will blow over in a week or two. you cant say that the DC fans are guiltless of this either

 

[jmc]

its growing pains right now between WB and DC, trust me when i say that its much better now that DC is actually involved in the moviemaking creative process rather than being a glorified library where WB can just take material as they please. and its a combination of foresight and luck that Marvel was able to set up most of their Avengers characters franchises before the Disney merger (so yes the Cap/Thor/Avengers thing had little to do with the Mouse).

it is correct that you should be wary of the Mouse. Disney was real nice to Walden Media and the Narnia franchise when they started. but when the 2nd Narnia movie underperformed Disney was quick to cut off all ties, abandoning the franchise (and nearly killing it if Fox didnt step in). Marvel will be lucky if Disney would just let them go if one of the properties goes south in the box office. i have a feeling if Marvel screws up Disney will swallow them up like a piece of cheese.

Very good point you bring up, Marvel are cocky as hell at the moment but they've got a new daddy now. They could very well end up in a situation almost identical to DC with WB. One big flop, and it will come eventually regardless if people want to believe it or not, and the circumstances will change dramatically.

 

[Heretic]

I hate to rain on DC's parade, but part of the reason is that WB probably realizes that DC has spent decades promoting characters that have no business in movies.

I know...comic book fans are stubborn and believe that everyone will love their favorites, but it just isn't true. Can you imagine the meeting where DC tries to convince WB to invest a hundred million dollars into a movie about a girl who dresses like a magicians assistant/prostitute and when she says a word backwards it happens...um..."no" would be the answer...especially when they see that this character is not even popular enough to support her own title. Martian Manhunter is NOTHING outside of comics...and he's one of DC's big 7!!!!!!!!!! I know, DC fans will scream and holler that everyone on earth knows who Martian Manhunter is and loves him...and that's ridiculous. Green Arrow? He's a tough sell anyway. He doesn't have the foreign (or US) market value of Robin Hood (which just underperformed in the US) and Marvel just put an archer in Avengers...the archery market is sufficiently full. I would suggest that Marvel's characters are easier to "get". A wise-cracking teen, an angry guy with guns, an allegory for racism...it's easier than Green Lantern, Flash etc...

Where DC has more potential is actually in doing a better job of exploring different concepts. They could have made an inexpensive, gritty western about Jonah Hex...but instead tried to make a superhero style movie out of it. The problem wasn't in choosing Jonah Hex, it was the execution. The Losers were in some ways a victim of A-Team, Salt and a thousand other movies about government agents falsely accused. A fun movie...but a poor choice in this market.

So, rather than giving a small number of fanboys what they want...a hundred million dollar risk that few really care about, they need to make smarter mainstream decisions that are kept to a smaller budget, while using superheroes as rare tentpole releases as the market needs them (not 10 superhero films a year). We've seen that winter months are great for a fantasy type franchise...so what superhero can fill that epic quality in a fantasy/family oriented sci-fi need??

Saw is ending, so a Vertigo movie every October would be great. Also, Jan/Feb is when the cheap horror movies come out and make cash...so another Vertigo title every winter. One tentpole superhero movie in the summer and thats 4 DC movies a year...which is a great turnout!

 

[SuperFerret]

Both companies have focused on their smaller characters when it comes to movies, while neglecting their bigger ones, y'know the ones that actually matter, for whatever reason (possibly to annoy the hell out of me). We needed a Blade franchise for the same reason we needed Jonah Hex, as in not at all.

Marvel's just moving faster because their properties are split up, where DC's are all at WB and WB will be making other movies each year as well as DC Comics based ones.

 

[J.Howlett]

Heretic,

You make good points on Hex and Losers. WB just came at those the wrong way. Personally, I really don't see the need for panic on the DC side. If Lantern hits like Iron Man (2008) like I think it will, all this doom and gloom with be for nothing.

WB/DC has the right man for the job in Martin Campbell for Lantern. You get Lantern up and running next summer. In 2012, you've got the sure hit in Batman 3 and the possible hit of Superman Reboot at the end of that year. That's three. This is all in the realm of possibility...especially with those last two spearheaded by Nolan.

I think Marvel is on the verge of replicating 2008 all over again with Thor and America. One of those won't work out as much as they want it to. And then, look at the position of Marvel if that happens. It's the Incredible Hulk all over again. Hulk is basically a bit player now with the recast. He'll never get his own movie again.

I find it interesting that DC/WB is devoting all it's energies towards Lantern, while Marvel is basically splitting time between three films. I think it will show next summer. Iron Man 2 is the perfect example. Both Favreau and Downey weren't really happy with how that turned out due to time.

Again, no doom and gloom just yet. Now if Lantern flops...then all bets might be off.

 

[chiefchirpa]

Green Arrow? He's a tough sell anyway. He doesn't have the foreign (or US) market value of Robin Hood (which just underperformed in the US) and Marvel just put an archer in Avengers...the archery market is sufficiently full.

Especially if they go the Ultimate route, Hawkeye is extremely easy to be done movie style. He's a brash apolitical modern renegade toting rifles as good as bow and arrow. While Green Arrow keeps the classical style of Robin Hood with the added return to the jungle like in the new JT Krul comics, Hawkeye sticks with the urban jungle/high flying setup formula. Again to me another point for Hawkeye.

 

[Heretic]

I truly believe that Green Lantern should be coming out in the Avatar spot. In the crowded summer of 2011 it could very well be over-looked by the general public...but marketed less as a superhero movie and more as a groundbreaking sci fi/fantasy adventure...it could be huge.

Marvel is going to suffer for it's greed next summer. I predict a few of their movies will drastically under-perform...possibly all of them. They will likely be limping towards Avengers in 2012 as Thor and CERTAINLY Captain America will not be making Iron Man numbers.

But DC shouldnt just be following that pattern of flooding the market with 5 superheroes movies a year. Instead, pick three tentpoles (Superman, Batman, and another TBD) for summer release and alternate one every summer. Then pick three for the Avatar/LOTR slot and alternate. That is two huge event movies per year...with theoretically your 6 top franchises constantly in a state of movie-making.

Shazam would be an interesting choice...because it seems like an easy sell...however, movies about kids learning to use their powers havent been doing nearly as well lately due to the over-saturation of the market (Cirque de Freak, Sorcerers Apprentice, Percy Jackson). Still, a family film with a small enough budget I think it could make some cash as an off-season film.

DC shouldnt be thinking about 10 movies a year that make 300 million. They should be hoping for 2 superhero blockbuster tentpoles...and a few Vertigo style movies that make 60-90 million.

 

[The Sage]

thats the ever present danger in all this new direction DC is taking. truthfully i dont think its DCE but WB itself, its the parent company and the budget still comes from them, if anything they've been complacent and resistant in getting the DC franchises working because they have had other franchises to fill their coffers with (LOTR, HP). with those wells drying up very quickly they're turning to their other properties to make money from-- they dont have any choice. and Marvel showing them up on nearly every turn has got to at least made them grumble about it professionally if not financially.

I knew that years ago about WB, which is why I didn't care about only having one DC Comic film a year. Marvel only has its comic book properties while WB has always had more than one property to push so they could afford to play it slow or not take DC seriously. But with The Dark Knight being the most successful comic book film to date financially, and with the other franchises winding down, there's no choice but to take the DC Comic films seriously.

Sometimes that's what it takes to realize what you have: when you have nothing else.

Thank you Steelsheen! that's what I've been saying!

Then why didn't you just say that in the first place and instead of continuing with "You're all playing into WB's hands" and all those other lines.

 

[The Sage]

That's the other thing that pisses me off about the WB, they destroyed Bugs Bunny. Whoever did that should be hung in the town square.

Looney Toons are 100 kinds of win, but the WB won't play them because alot of the cartoons aren't PC.

When was Bugs Bunny destroyed?

 

[Star Lord]

Both companies have focused on their smaller characters when it comes to movies, while neglecting their bigger ones, y'know the ones that actually matter, for whatever reason (possibly to annoy the hell out of me). We needed a Blade franchise for the same reason we needed Jonah Hex, as in not at all.

Marvel's just moving faster because their properties are split up, where DC's are all at WB and WB will be making other movies each year as well as DC Comics based ones.

Why should it only be big name characters who get movies though?

"A-List" doesn't automatically equal "great character". There is plently of A-List characters in comics that I feel are crap characters and are only popular because they are big names or come under a big brand like X-Men. Seriously... 90% of the X-Men are crap, uninteresting characters... they are only popular because they come under the X-Men umbrella.

 

[J.Howlett]

Heretic,

Personally, having the Superman Reboot at the Christmas spot for 2012 is perfect. That's what they should've done for Superman Returns. Had they done that, they're wouldn't have been a reboot and more than likely, we would've seen a sequel to that film as late as last year.

But I do agree with you that next summer, Marvel's going to hit a snag. Of the two films, I think Thor is going to be the problem one. It may be better than America but I just have a feeling about that one and it sadness me because the lovely Ms. Portman is in that film. Either way, one of those films isn't going to work. My guts being telling me that for a while.

And with X-Men First Class next summer as well, Marvel's going to be flooding the markets and that might not be a good thing. Funny enough, I think First Class will be the best Marvel movie next summer. Vaughn has assembled a great cast with that one.

 

[Heretic]

The issue with First Class is that it is a prequel, that is a sequel to a prequel...meaning who the heck cares???? Besides...the continuity of this prequel contradicts the continuity in Wolverine...AND the earlier X-Men films (which also contradict). The end result is a mess, and I think it is beginning to wear on people.

Spider-Man in general did not need a reboot. It's a bit insulting that they are casting aside three recent films that are some of the biggest movies of all time for no real reason other than to do it. It will do big numbers, but not quite what they are hoping for.

Thor is not the household name that Marvel thinks. It will not do Iron Man numbers...but should be solid, if slightly underperforming.

Captain America is screwed. This movie relies almost solely on the US market (and I guarantee that the name "Captain America" will not be in the title for foreign release). In a crowded market, in a time when even Americans are angry at their government...it looks to have a massive opening weekend, and then a huge fall. That July 4th weekend hype should make it a bigger hit than Incredible Hulk, but it will not be anywhere near Iron Man numbers without something happening in the political realm that involves massive patriotism (like a terrorist attack, which not even Marvel is hoping for).

 

[J.Howlett]

Heretic,

With First Class, you're absolutely right. I was thinking how this is going to be a prequel to Singer's first film with the cast/characters that are going to be in the thing. The result...is that it's really a damn reboot and they should advertise it as such.

And, I see your point about America. That's really going to be a problem as you described.