Why Does Socialism Have a Negative Connotation?

[Decepticonus]

exactly!

 

[herakles]

what else do you have a government for.

Governments should be around only to make sure that roads are built, maintained, laws put in place that allow commerce to move, protect people from discrimination, people to feel secure, and maintain a army to protect it's citizens.

A government should not tell you want to eat, what insurance to buy, and who you can marry!

The older I get I more Libertarian I become.

 

[Decepticonus]

Question, what gives you or anyone the right to determine who gets to keep what portion of the money they have earned?



Also those people working at Target don't have to stay working at Target. They can take classes and find a better job! This is the one thing I HATE about all this Socialism talk. NOT everyone is made to be Kings/Chiefs/CEOs/Presidents! There needs to be Subjects/Workers/Indians!

Very true, who gave them the right indeed. I agree.

Problem is classes are not cheap. Should they get a loan from the banks who will keep them ball and chained for quite a while. The same banks who help create the financial messes we end up in. And what if they came from such a poor background they got a poor education and wouldn't even be accepted into college?

 

[herakles]

Problem is classes are not cheap. Should they get a loan from the banks who will keep them ball and chained for quite a while. The same banks who help create the financial messes we end up in. And what if they came from such a poor background they got a poor education and wouldn't even be accepted into college?

Wrong! there are night classes that people can take for free!

https://adulted-lausd-ca.schoolloop.com/Perkins

http://www.sdce.edu/classes

This is just in So Cal and most of these classes are free! There is baking, auto repair, IT, child day care and metal welding courses. All of these lead to careers that play way more than minimum wage. Where there is a will there is a way!

 

[Decepticonus]

fair enough

 

[SV Fan]

Also those people working at Target don't have to stay working at Target. They can take classes and find a better job! This is the one thing I HATE about all this Socialism talk. NOT everyone is made to be Kings/Chiefs/CEOs/Presidents! There needs to be Subjects/Workers/Indians! BUT this country allows people to transcend their current lot in life! That is what is so great about the US and it's capitalism system! It allows people who dream and work hard to attain levels of success they would not be able to attain in other systems!

Here is the problem we see many stories of places like Walmart or McDonalds making billions of dollars, yet both places have many employees who make so little money even though they work full time that they are on government benefits. Do you think companies like this should benefit of of government welfare?

Thankfully Walmart has come around to increasing wages, so that is a start but anbody working a full time job in this country should at least make enough that they don't need to get government benefits.

Personally I think the main problem in the US is not people who created business, it's to much importance is put into investors who buy stocks, these are the people who shouldn't be making money off the hard work of others and policies should be enacted to stop this being a way to make lots of money

 

[hippie_hunter]

Walmart and McDonalds really aren't comparable.

 

[Decepticonus]

Walmart and McDonalds really aren't comparable.

Dare I ask, why not?

 

[Lilbaz]

Question, what gives you or anyone the right to determine who gets to keep what portion of the money they have earned?

Bill Gates did NOT inherit 80 Billion he made that money by creating a product that people paid Billions for. Bill Gates deserves his money cause he earned it. He built a multi-billion dollar company from the ground up!

Also those people working at Target don't have to stay working at Target. They can take classes and find a better job! This is the one thing I HATE about all this Socialism talk. NOT everyone is made to be Kings/Chiefs/CEOs/Presidents! There needs to be Subjects/Workers/Indians! BUT this country allows people to transcend their current lot in life! That is what is so great about the US and it's capitalism system! It allows people who dream and work hard to attain levels of success they would not be able to attain in other systems!

If everyone went to university and had PHD's some would still be CEO's and some would be road sweepers.
The people at the top should be paid more as they have more responsibility, that is not the argument. The argument is that the people who are at the bottom and work hard should be paid enough money to have a decent life. As to who decides how much everyone gets paid it is those at the top. That is why inequality is getting worse as they decide to pay themselves more but not the workers at the bottom.
It is so bad that now most of benefits paid are to those in work. Why should the taxpayer subsidise business while they are making massive profits?

 

[hippie_hunter]

Dare I ask, why not?

Because they're structured completely differently. Everyone who works at Walmart is a Walmart employee, not everyone who works at McDonalds is a McDonalds employee. The majority of people who work at McDonalds restaurants are employees of whoever runs the franchise and they're not the mega-billion dollar monolith that McDonalds HQ is. While Walmart can easily afford to treat their employees better, the owners of the McDonalds franchises on the other hand don't even come close to the billions that Walmart pockets.

And their industries are completely different as well. People of all sorts are going to go to Walmart because Walmart offers everything. Even though Walmart has competition, I think we can all agree that Target, Kmart, and other retail outlets just don't compare to the vast reach of Walmart. McDonalds on the other hand is far more dependent on dirt cheap labor than Walmart is. McDonalds' edge over other competitors in the food industry is that it sells dirt cheap, crappy food to their customers. And as we are currently seeing, McDonalds' biggest problem right now is as costs are going up, their prices are closer to the competition, and people are less attracted to McDonalds' crappy food. If customers are going to pay the same amount, they might as well go to a restaurant that offers slightly higher quality food. Raising the labor costs will hurt McDonalds' competitiveness far, far, FAR more than Walmarts'.

In the end, McDonalds just doesn't have the maneuverability that Walmart does. Their ownership structure of restaurants and competition just doesn't allow it. People who attack McDonalds thinking that McDonalds can easily afford to give people higher pay just don't understand how it works and think of it along the same lines of other mega-corporations like Walmart when they're structurally completely different. Walmart can absorb the rising labor costs, McDonalds on the other hand is going to be forced to either automate, which they are doing, or close down franchises. In the end, will result in job losses. Now while they're crappy paying jobs, a crappy paying job is still better than no job at all.

 

[Greens]

Also those people working at Target don't have to stay working at Target. They can take classes and find a better job! This is the one thing I HATE about all this Socialism talk. NOT everyone is made to be Kings/Chiefs/CEOs/Presidents! There needs to be Subjects/Workers/Indians! BUT this country allows people to transcend their current lot in life! That is what is so great about the US and it's capitalism system! It allows people who dream and work hard to attain levels of success they would not be able to attain in other systems!

Right, not taking into account people who simply can't afford a higher education because of the situation they were born into. Not to mention student loan debt will haunt you for the rest of your life.

The American Dream is true for a very, very, very small number of people.

 

[herakles]

Here is the problem we see many stories of places like Walmart or McDonalds making billions of dollars, yet both places have many employees who make so little money even though they work full time that they are on government benefits. Do you think companies like this should benefit of of government welfare?

Thankfully Walmart has come around to increasing wages, so that is a start but anbody working a full time job in this country should at least make enough that they don't need to get government benefits.

Personally I think the main problem in the US is not people who created business, it's to much importance is put into investors who buy stocks, these are the people who shouldn't be making money off the hard work of others and policies should be enacted to stop this being a way to make lots of money

People don't have to stay working at Walmart! Go take a night course on say Auto repair and become a mechanic or take courses for computers and go into the IT field.

 

[herakles]

Right, not taking into account people who simply can't afford a higher education because of the situation they were born into. Not to mention student loan debt will haunt you for the rest of your life. The American Dream is true for a very, very, very small number of people.

AGAIN, there is Adult school that IS FREE! I posted two links for LA and San Diego.

WHERE DID I WRITE that people should go to a university!????

If everyone went to university and had PHD's some would still be CEO's and some would be road sweepers.
The people at the top should be paid more as they have more responsibility, that is not the argument. The argument is that the people who are at the bottom and work hard should be paid enough money to have a decent life. As to who decides how much everyone gets paid it is those at the top. That is why inequality is getting worse as they decide to pay themselves more but not the workers at the bottom.
It is so bad that now most of benefits paid are to those in work. Why should the taxpayer subsidise business while they are making massive profits?

So working on a car that has complicate components if the same as "do you want cheese with that sir" ???

People should NOT get paid well simply because they "work hard"! You should get paid based on the value your skill set brings to your employer! Working stocking cans at Walmart is NOT the same as rebuilding a Lexus transmission or talking someone through setting up their company email account on their Droid or iPhone.

Also minimum wage was not intended to be a career choice!

 

[moviedoors]

Working stocking cans at Walmart is NOT the same as rebuilding a Lexus transmission

Well, I used to be a MANAGER at Walmart. Guess how much I was making when I quit.

$9.45/hr

There is no defending that company.

 

[herakles]

Well, I used to be a MANAGER at Walmart. Guess how much I was making when I quit.

$9.45/hr

There is no defending that company.

I am not defending that company. Did you improve your job skill set?

I have noticed something in SoCal. Being Greek I grew up restaurants. Recently cooks will jump ship to other restaurants because they get more money. That forced their old employer to raise wages. So now the average cook is making 10-15 hr. Sometimes even more if the restaurant makes a lot of profit.

I personally got tired of making 50 cents about min wage so I went back to school in my mid 20s and now I am making decent money.

 

[moviedoors]

I am not defending that company. Did you improve your job skill set?

I'm always trying to improve my skill set.

It sounds to me like you're arguing that people who work these full time service jobs should be making **** money, and I don't accept that. CostCo pays their stockers upwards of 15 bucks an hour. I don't call that overpaying them, I call that investing in your workforce.

There are millions of people in service jobs and they are no longer the domain of high school kids. You're average McDonald's employee is 29 years old.

As someone who worked his way up from a stocker, I think you underestimate it slightly. It's not the hardest job in the world by any means, but it's also no walk in the park. Unloading trucks and stocking thousands of items on an overnight shift is real labor, just as much as answering a damn phone for a living.

 

[herakles]

I'm always trying to improve my skill set.

It sounds to me like you're arguing that people who work these full time service jobs should be making **** money, and I don't accept that. CostCo pays their stockers upwards of 15 bucks an hour. I don't call that overpaying them, I call that investing in your workforce.

There are millions of people in service jobs and they are no longer the domain of high school kids. You're average McDonald's employee is 29 years old.

As someone who worked his way up from a stocker, I think you underestimate it slightly. It's not the hardest job in the world by any means, but it's also no walk in the park. Unloading trucks and stocking thousands of items on an overnight shift is real labor, just as much as answering a damn phone for a living.

Actually I worked in fast food from 16-25 for min wage. I got tired of making crap so I went to school and got some skills and moved on.

So digging ditches is the equivalent or say being a sales rep for a pharm co or a Doctor?

I am sorry but Micky Ds should NOT be a career choice! Neither should Walmart.

If you are not getting paid what you think you are worth then go out and get what you're worth. Don't settle for min wage and government assistance or expect to be paid entry level IT or Lab Tech wages for flipping burgers!

 

[Lilbaz]

AGAIN, there is Adult school that IS FREE! I posted two links for LA and San Diego.

WHERE DID I WRITE that people should go to a university!????



So working on a car that has complicate components if the same as "do you want cheese with that sir" ???

People should NOT get paid well simply because they "work hard"! You should get paid based on the value your skill set brings to your employer! Working stocking cans at Walmart is NOT the same as rebuilding a Lexus transmission or talking someone through setting up their company email account on their Droid or iPhone.

Also minimum wage was not intended to be a career choice!

I'm not saying it is and I'm not saying they should get paid the same. What I am saying is that if you work hard for 40 hours a week you should get enough pay to be able to pay your rent, feed and clothe yourself.

Let me ask you this. Should we feed and clothe our prisoners? Or let them starve? If we have a responsibility to those who commit crimes, then shouldn't those who do not commit crime and go out and work 40 hours a week deserve a better standard of living?

As for minimum wage not intended to be a career choice. No it wasn't but it has become that way. It's easy to say go to evening classes etc... Where is the money for that going to come from if you can't afford to feed yourself as is? What about if you are a single parent with 2 kids? Where are you going to find money for someone to look after your children while you are doing these courses? What about if you have a disability, are dyslexic and cannot read or write? What if there are no other jobs?

Do you seriously think that working a minimum wage job is a lifestyle choice? That if they could these people wouldn't be doing something else? I worked as a manager for security for investment banks. I had 30 security officers working for me. 8 of them had degrees one of them a phd. Do you think they would be working in security if they could find a job in their chosen fields?

 

[Lilbaz]

FYI the minimum wage in the US is (i believe) $7.25. In the UK it is $10.2. I don't see McDonalds or other companies going bankrupt.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Wal Mart is enjoying record profits, so even they had a hard time justifying paying their employees sub-living standard wages. For McDonalds its a bit more complex, since it's a franchise. But when your CEO makes more than 9,200 dollars an hour, and your employees make 7.25, you've got some problems.

 

[SV Fan]

Wal Mart is enjoying record profits, so even they had a hard time justifying paying their employees sub-living standard wages. For McDonalds its a bit more complex, since it's a franchise. But when your CEO makes more than 9,200 dollars an hour, and your employees make 7.25, you've got some problems.

Problem with McDonalds as a corporation they make 5B+ dollars. Why not let the franchises keep more of that cash with the deal they pay higher wages instead of just handing off that money to investors.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Because rich people love money.

 

[Lilbaz]

Because rich people love money.

It often comes up about soccer players and how much money they make why they can't be satisfied and push a move to a club that pays them more money. The answer is simple. You are a successful soccer player and own an Aston Martin. The next player owns a Bugatti Veyron, the next owns a yacht, the next owns his own private plane the next owns his own island. Suddenly you feel very poor.

The problem with CEO's is that their wages are no longer determined by the sharholders. In a modern world of computers some shares are only owned for the matter of seconds (if that). So what they do is they get a group of CEO's from other companies to determine their pay rise. Seems fair, except that you then sit with the same group and determine another CEO's. You do each in turn. Thus you see 70% pay increases, every year. Which they justify as the average wage increase for a CEO is 70% and that is the going rate. Where does this money come from? Well you freeze pay for those at the bottom, which you justify as the other companies have also frozen wages.

 

[demitri_vampiro]

Governments should be around only to make sure that roads are built, maintained, laws put in place that allow commerce to move, protect people from discrimination, people to feel secure, and maintain a army to protect it's citizens.

A government should not tell you want to eat, what insurance to buy, and who you can marry!

The older I get I more Libertarian I become.

they shouldnt tell you what to eat, but that was never the case in socialism. the government should be there to protect people from injustuice by big corporations. government should be there for the people, not companies.
a self governing system where not shareholders, but workers are owners of a company would elimenate many of the unjust situations where you can be fired when company is having bad times, yet boss gets a bonus.

 

[Lilbaz]

Couldn't democracy itself be considered socialist to a certain extent? Just by it's very nature 1 person 1 vote.