Superman Returns Why Don't Some Superman Fans Like Superman Returns?

Like mego joe said, the problem we`re talking is not WHY he left. Its HOW. The reason in the movie to back up the whole storyline isnt just good enough or in character with Superman. And the whole movie depends on that. And thats why it fails to me.
 
Like mego joe said, the problem we`re talking is not WHY he left. Its HOW. The reason in the movie to back up the whole storyline isnt just good enough or in character with Superman. And the whole movie depends on that. And thats why it fails to me.

OK. :)

Angeloz
 
OK, this is a review I wrote over a year ago having just seen the film. I've just had a quick read through it, and a year later I think I pretty much still agree with most (if not all) of the points I made back then. There are some things I've changed my mind about and some things I have realised since which were not even in there, but anyway I thought some of you might be interested.

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After nearly twenty years, Superman has returned to the big screen! Regular visitors to this site will inevitably know that I have been following the progress of this production since long before the inception of it's current incarnation, and have been none too quiet on the matter. So, after over a year of anticipation, excitement, and wild ranting, I have finally seen the film, and am in a position to make an informed opinion.

First overall impressions: very well done. My major concern with this film had been that they would make fundamental changes to the nature of the character, and I am happy to say that this is something that they have very respectfully maintained. There is one point, and quite a major one at that, that I am not happy about, but I will come back to that in due course.

As with any film, the most important elements are the plot and the storyline. These were not too bad, but there were holes in them, and specifically holes in the plot that related to casting issues, but again I'll move on to those. The film begins with Superman returning to Earth after a mysterious absence of five years, and Lex Luthor swindling the heirs of a dying old lady out of her estate on her death bed. After Superman saves the day and makes his big comeback, Luthor hatches a plot to grow his own island using Kryptonian technology, which will eventually consume America, and make him sole proprietor of the most important real estate on the planet, as well as the most advanced technology. Little does Superman know, but this island has been infused with Kryptonite. Cue a dramatic confrontation between Supes and Baldie, Supes on his death bed, some more dramatic rescues, and an anticlimactic ending, and there you have it in a nutshell.

The plot's not too bad, but it's also not particularly inspired. The film carries it off well, and all in all its a fairly passable action movie. But is it any good? Well, this depends on your point of view. From a technical point of view, it is flawless. And by this I mean there is no fault I can find with the film; all the boxes are ticked, so to speak. I did however find it somewhat lacking in a number of respects. The first is that the director does not have an understanding of how the theme music works. This may sound like nitpicking, but the Superman theme music is actually an ingenious composition. Every movement in the piece tells a part of the story of the Mythic Hero's journey, and each bit of the music has a particular significance, but this was not used to good effect. All that has been done is that the title theme from the original score has been a little re-hashed and used in the opening sequence just so they can claim to have respect for the original films, without any true understanding of its application or meaning.

My second gripe with this film is the casting. There have been many incarnations of Lex Luthor, and my favourite has always been the corporate billionaire version, as I find it is the most versatile in terms of story possibilities. I have been saying for years that Kevin Spacey would be an ideal choice for the role of Luthor, because I envisioned him playing this kind of role, of someone who outwardly and publicly appears philanthropic, yet is in fact a murderous and genocidal master criminal. Kevin Spacey is perfect for this, as he is easily able to portray a character as good-natured as he is to portray him as sinister and brooding. Rather than following this route, and using Spacey to what would inevitably have been fantastic effect, director Bryan Singer chose to have Luthor portrayed as an underground villain, and as downright angry rather than sinister. There was nothing wrong with Spacey's performance, but considering that it was him cast for the role and not someone else, I felt that his talent was wasted on such a dry interpretation of the character.

My second casting problem was Kate Bosworth. As I have never seen her in any other film, I do not feel well placed to criticise her talent as an actress, but I will however say that her performance in this film was diabolical. She portrayed a 'teen-angsty' kind of Lois, who came across as being constantly bitter at being unfairly treated because she is a woman (despite this not being the case) for no better reason than feeling like it. There was no chemistry between her and Routh, either as Superman or Clark, and not even any chemistry between her and James Marsden's character Richard, Superman's supposed love rival for her attentions. Overall, her performance was flat, dry, unemotional and uninspiring.

Routh was also, in my opinion, poorly cast. I can see what Singer saw in him as the potential to play Superman, and personally I feel that given a few years seasoning, he could give a memorable performance as the Man of Steel, but as it stands, he is too young and too inexperienced. Spatially, he is a very good actor, and the way he moves is very convincing. But he falls staggeringly short facially and with his dialogue. His voice is horrible to listen to, and lacks intensity, and his facial expressions just seem like a strained and artificial attempt to imitate Reeve's cocky and confident style. As I said, I can definitely see him playing a very convincing Superman in a few years, but I think he needs those few years first. Also, his age doesn't quite work. This ties in with the plot flaw I mentioned earlier. At the beginning of the film, Superman returns having been in space for five years looking for Krypton. The problem with this is that Routh looks young, certainly no older than about mid-twenties, and add to this the fact that he has brown eyes and had to wear blue contacts (contact lenses make your eyes appear much larger), and you have a Superman who would have been well established when he left Earth at the age of about twenty. It just seems wrong to me.

As with the rest of the film itself, the supporting cast were proficient and passable, but again uninspired, with the exception of Marsden who, in my opinion, managed to steal the show from even Spacey. Which brings me to my biggest problem with this film.

***MAJOR SPOILER ALERT!!!!!***

Superman and Lois Lane have had a child together. Superman doesn't know this at first, as he thinks the kid she is dragging around must be hers and Richard's, but it becomes undeniably apparent that Superman is the father when the child throws a piano across the room. I don't have a problem with the notion of Superman and Lois Lane having a child together, but I feel that out of sheer respect for the medium if nothing else, it is not the place of a film director to explore what is quite a significant life changing event in a movie if it has not been done in the comics first. Again, this may seem like nitpicking, but it is justified in my opinion, especially seeing as Lois and Clark are married in the comics, and in the film it appears to be the result of a one night stand (presumably from Superman II, just after he gives up his powers). Superman's relationship with the child and Lois is left extremely wanting at the end of the film. I would expect Superman, on discovering that the child was his, to want to discuss the situation with Lois. What in fact happened was that he went to see the child briefly and then essentially told Lois that he'd see her around. This left me feeling very uncomfortable.

The action scenes in the film were all fairly good, although they didn't have me on the edge of my seat. It is far easier to criticise than it is to praise, but I will say that there were a couple of scenes in the film that were fantastic, particularly the rescue scenes, which very nearly had me wanting to clap and cheer! I did however feel that the CGI looked incredibly plastic in places, especially considering that this movie had a final budget of over a quarter of a billion pounds. Two last points, there were a number of references to the comics, Lois & Clark, Smallville, and the original films, which would appear to anyone who recognises them to be homages, but with the exception of a scene near the beginning with a model train set reproducing key moments from the first two films, these references, like the music, did not appear to be understood, and were seemingly placed in the film at random without any meaning. Finally, it is shown in the film that Lois has won a Pulitzer prize for an article entitled “Why The World Doesn't Need Superman”. There is not a chance that a writer unable to produce a more inspired headline than this would a) win a Pulitzer or b) hold down a job at a 'major metropolitan newspaper'.

As a whole, the film isn't bad, and I will admit that I'll be seeing it again. But I am quite disappointed that I can't say that its an outstanding movie. The film is technically flawless, but it lacks passion and a certain spark. The whole film seems a bit shallow and mechanical, as if produced by a skilled craftsman rather than a talented artist. This I hold Bryan Singer entirely responsible for. His previous work on the first two X-Men films demonstrates this. Fantastically made movies, but flat, lacking depth, and while there is no reasonable fault to be found with them, lacking inspiration and passion. While Superman Returns is by no stretch of the imagination a bad film, it lacks the intensity and energy that made the original Donner movie a classic, and I would class it as more on a par with Superman III and Superman IV than with Superman The Movie and Superman II.


Review originally appeared on The Difference Engine
 
When it comes to his relationship with Lois, it was never one kept on the old school ground, so I wouldn't expect his responses to be different from anything done before. That's part of the deal with their relationship in the films. He ignores rules and even breaks them for her. In S:TM he played games with time because he couldn't save her ("never to interfere with human history"). In S:II he nearly handed Earth to Zod on a silver platter because he was in love with her. He loves her no matter what. Even if a relationship is doomed, with the kind of love he displays for her, any semblance of mathematical rationality is wishful thinking at best. The writers realized that with his lessons learned from the first two films, he'd make the tough choice and go "save" Krypton. The kind of love he's displayed for her would definitely indicate that if anyone could talk him out of anything...let alone a trip halfway across the cosmos, it'd damn sure be Lois Lane. .

Why would she try to talk him out of it? If she really loves him she would understand how important this trip would be to him? That really doesn't sound like a real loving relationship.

Is Lois supposed to be a completely selfish, self-absorbed person?

We aren't discussing Lois in this thread per se, but this analysis of her character seems to indicate that Lois was portrayed out of character as well.
 
Not messy. A mystery. Something we're not sure about (that may or may not be imagined). I know it's a problem for some. ;)



So you need everything explained. Or it's bad? Me, I like mysteries. ;)

I love mysteries, but this is not a mystery. If it were it would have been resolved by the end. But it's not a mystery it's just bad storytelling.


Interesting. You aren't typical. I approve (not that you need it). :)

Though you can't just accept he felt lonely (with or without Lois). And he took Lois for granted or her feelings for him (very naughty). But when he heard about Krypton felt the need to see it for himself. See if it was there or there were any survivors. Just a thought (probably futile).

Angeloz

It just doesn't explain why he is unable to say goodbye.
 
Why would she try to talk him out of it? If she really loves him she would understand how important this trip would be to him? That really doesn't sound like a real loving relationship.

Is Lois supposed to be a completely selfish, self-absorbed person?

Have you seen the earlier films? ;)

We aren't discussing Lois in this thread per se, but this analysis of her character seems to indicate that Lois was portrayed out of character as well.

I grant you she wasn't perfect. But as I've said I prefer him with Batman myself. :oldrazz:

Angeloz
 
I love mysteries, but this is not a mystery. If it were it would have been resolved by the end. But it's not a mystery it's just bad storytelling.

To you. :)

It just doesn't explain why he is unable to say goodbye.

It's a mystery. ;) :oldrazz: :D

I'll grant you we don't know all of the past to fully answer that. Which equals dick to you. I understand. But I still refuse to hate the film for it. :oldrazz:
Now the sequel could be a different matter for all sorts of reasons. Past, present or future. I don't know. I'm willing to wait and see. :)

Angeloz
 
Have you seen the earlier films? ;)

Yes, and I think if you watch them, she understands that SUperman has a responsibilty to the world. That's what she learns in the movies. And in SII, when he has a responsibility to the world to try and regain his powers she does not try and dissuade him. She is even confident that he will be able to come back.

I grant you she wasn't perfect. But as I've said I prefer him with Batman myself. :oldrazz:

Angeloz

A SUperman/ Batman film done in the vein of the current comic would be awsome.
 

To most people a story that doesn't explain why characters act the way they do is bad storytelling.
It's a mystery. ;) :oldrazz: :D

Revealed in a sequel?
I'll grant you we don't know all of the past to fully answer that. Which equals dick to you. I understand. But I still refuse to hate the film for it. :oldrazz:

And you don't have to hate the film. But many people want to know the reasons why so that there is depth to understanding the characters and why they act the way they do. Otherwise, the characters are flat and two dimensional.

And if you want to have characters do things that would otherwise seem out of character, a solid background and plausible motivation is needed to make that story believable.
Now the sequel could be a different matter for all sorts of reasons. Past, present or future. I don't know. I'm willing to wait and see. :)
I will interested to see what happens in any sequel if it is made. But I can assure, I'll be cathcing all the spoilers before hand to determine if it is worth seeing.

Angeloz[/quote]
 
Yes, and I think if you watch them, she understands that SUperman has a responsibilty to the world. That's what she learns in the movies.

And she's jealous of the whole world. I've seen them. But there's the time she puts herself and Clark in danger with a mugger (just lucky he had superpowers). Also a whole lot of times she took Clark for granted. I don't feel like going over them though. I'll point out I liked her as a kid. I don't hate her as an adult either. But I see things differently.

A SUperman/ Batman film done in the vein of the current comic would be awsome.

Maybe if they don't make them dickish towards one another in the film. I don't mind them arguing but I want them to at least care about each other. Even if it's at the end. I'll admit I fear they'll bugger it up somehow. Oh well.

Angeloz
 
To most people a story that doesn't explain why characters act the way they do is bad storytelling.

They told why. He went to Krypton because astronomers said they found it. They even implied he was searching for others like himself. They just didn't give us the ins and outs of the past. Because Jason was the mystery (in theory) and it would be telling. So it would be foolish to do so (again in theory).

Revealed in a sequel?

Maybe and maybe not. We'll see.

And you don't have to hate the film. But many people want to know the reasons why so that there is depth to understanding the characters and why they act the way they do. Otherwise, the characters are flat and two dimensional.

And if you want to have characters do things that would otherwise seem out of character, a solid background and plausible motivation is needed to make that story believable.

For you. :)

I didn't find them flat nor two dimensional. Naughty me. :oldrazz:

I will interested to see what happens in any sequel if it is made. But I can assure, I'll be cathcing all the spoilers before hand to determine if it is worth seeing.

I'll probably be spoiled too but 'cos I'm addicted to the forums. Though we'll see.

Angeloz
 
They told why. He went to Krypton because astronomers said they found it. They even implied he was searching for others like himself. They just didn't give us the ins and outs of the past. Because Jason was the mystery (in theory) and it would be telling. So it would be foolish to do so (again in theory).

Not why he he left but why he was unable to say goodbye to Lois. That is the only part that I am focussing on. That is the part that I find out of character.
Maybe and maybe not. We'll see.

I am not expecting it b/c I don't think SInger believes any more on that is needed.


And many others who've posted in this forum.
I didn't find them flat nor two dimensional. Naughty me. :oldrazz:

Many did.


I'll probably be spoiled too but 'cos I'm addicted to the forums. Though we'll see.

Angeloz

I'm with you there.
 
And she's jealous of the whole world. I've seen them. But there's the time she puts herself and Clark in danger with a mugger (just lucky he had superpowers). Also a whole lot of times she took Clark for granted. I don't feel like going over them though. I'll point out I liked her as a kid. I don't hate her as an adult either. But I see things differently.

Jealous, but understands the situation. Plus, she's supposed to love him. If she really loves HIM she will understand.

Maybe if they don't make them dickish towards one another in the film. I don't mind them arguing but I want them to at least care about each other. Even if it's at the end. I'll admit I fear they'll bugger it up somehow. Oh well.

Angeloz

I know what you are talking about. SOme storylines are bette than others, but I really enjoyed all the Jeph Loeb issues of that title.
 
Not why he he left but why he was unable to say goodbye to Lois. That is the only part that I am focussing on. That is the part that I find out of character.

That's part of the mystery. ;)

Also part of what happened in the past that could of lead to Jason. Or not. I'll admit. But I suspect it was less said the better for Jason's past must be protected. You had problems. I forgave him.

I am not expecting it b/c I don't think SInger believes any more on that is needed.

I could leave it too. Naughty me again. ;) :oldrazz:

Although I might not object to an explanation of their past relationship. But it could end up with me hating it. I don't know. There's many possibilities.

And many others who've posted in this forum.


Many did.

Commiserations on your tragedy. :(

I'm with you there.

Hmm... So we're addicted. Is there a group? Although I don't want a cure (at the moment). ;)
 
Jealous, but understands the situation. Plus, she's supposed to love him. If she really loves HIM she will understand.

Actually my main problem wasn't with her treatment of Superman. But with Clark. If you must know. But that's film shorthand (the way she treats him in his different guises).

I know what you are talking about. SOme storylines are bette than others, but I really enjoyed all the Jeph Loeb issues of that title.

Thanks for the recommendation. I do want to read the TPBs. Although I did get the issue for his son which had a story of his in it about Clark. I've also read some of his other work too - a long time ago.

Angeloz
 
Actually my main problem wasn't with her treatment of Superman.

And that's my point with Lois's characterization. She WOULD understand that SUperman had to go on a mission to Krypton.
But with Clark. If you must know. But that's film shorthand (the way she treats him in his different guises).

You'll get no argument from me there. Her atttitude towards Clark is despicable.


Thanks for the recommendation. I do want to read the TPBs. Although I did get the issue for his son which had a story of his in it about Clark. I've also read some of his other work too - a long time ago.

Angeloz

That issue by his son is great, and a really moving true story about him and his son.

I like Vol.3 Absolute Power and Vol.4 (can't remember the title) the best. Loeb's "Superman for All Seasons" and his Batman work "The Long Halloween" and "Hush" are both excellent also. I haven't read "Dark Victory" yet, but it is in my stack.
 
It has been in some Loeb/Sale comics.

So you're wrong. I specifically said on film.

It's about injustice.

He's a bitter loner who lives trying to bring a sense to his life by bringing justice to this world, which seems to be impossible for just one man, but still he tries.

Is Superman really that different? Batman fights because his parents were killed. In the Donner films at least, Superman exists because Pa Kent died and then Jor El told him to. Both identities were created because of their dead parents.

The last thing Batman (the character created by Bruce Wayne) needs is a son. The minute he has a son, his life gets a meaning and Batman is needless anymore. His life would have a meaning.

You just told me a second ago that he already has a son. And Batman has come close to giving up his mantle before, like in Batman Forever, where he was close to giving it up for a relationship. But he chose to 'be both Batman and Bruce Wayne". So it's already established in a previous continuity that the character is willing to balance his two lives.

Regardless, the conflict he would endure would make for a fascinating film, as the charcter struggles whether to be Batman or Daddy. And it's never been done on film, so I say bring on Batbaby! It worked for Superman and now it can work its magic on Batman!

batbaby.jpg
 
Why would she try to talk him out of it? If she really loves him she would understand how important this trip would be to him? That really doesn't sound like a real loving relationship.
You ever remember the line in S:II when she said that she's "jealous of the whole world?" I seriously doubt she'd be ready to throw him a going away party at the drop of a hat, nahmeen?
Is Lois supposed to be a completely selfish, self-absorbed person?
When it comes to love, some people are. Yet again, they were staying in character with what had been established prior hence in the original films. She's not a saint. Neither is Superman.
We aren't discussing Lois in this thread per se, but this analysis of her character seems to indicate that Lois was portrayed out of character as well.
When compared to some of the comic book renditions of her, yes. But it is NOTHING NEW TO THE FRANCHISE.
 
My issue is not that he left Earth. FOcus just on this part for a second. It's HOW he left. Not saying goodbye. THat is the part that is out of character. Characterizing him as a character who is so emotionally crippled by having to tell the woman he loves the truth about leaving which would create a feeling that he could then NOT go, is incorrect for ANY version of SUperman. It is against the core of his character. Just that aspect.
They already gave a rationale for why he didn't. Lois didn't buy it, and neither do you. That's perfectly cool that you don't. So you're saying that if he would've just said "see ya later!" that you'd be completely cool with it? I've already given references of what kind of character they established in the first two films, specifically the mistakes he's made, but still you expect him to be some flawless saint with completely unshakable emotional stability. We'll have to agree to disagree, as the old saying goes.
My reasons for not caring about Jason are that his storyline comes out of Superman leaving w/o telling Lois. Plus, as every other version has shown, SUperman wouldn't be having sex w/ Lois w/o her knowing he's Clark.SUperman should never be in this situation in the first place. Jason just comes across as a reminder of how little Singer understands the character.
There were variables that weren't completely covered, as I've discussed with you in months past (which you're obviously miffed about...but it's not my problem). If the memory kiss was used, then she wouldn't be any the wiser and probably thought Jason was actually Richard's kid. This is likely why she looked so shocked when Brutus ate a piano via Jason. I personally didn't have to have every little graphic detail spelled out for me when watching the film. If you did, then that's your issue.
 
Was that even put forth in the film, that his mission was to save potential survivors?
I had thought the deal was he had left under the idea that Krypton still existed in some form, and he wanted to check it out because he felt alienated and alone on earth (aka miserable Supes). He wasn't sure what he would find...but I suppose he was hoping to maybe find someone.
I'm sure he wasn't going on safari. You answered your first question with the last sentence you wrote. Why would he fly halfway across the universe, spending five years, to intentionally go visit uninhabited remnants of a dead world? He would've left to hopefully do what he has always done best: SAVE PEOPLE.
And while it's true Lex and Zod were gone...in Part II at the end Superman is shown fully embracing his mission to protect earth and its people...so I would imagine he'd be disinclined to leave it for years and years considering there'd still be plenty of things for him to do.
And of course...good thing no supervillains did pop up during his absence, or you know, Lex maybe getting out of jail 2 years into the absence. ;);)
Who's to say how many years past since that time? Obviously things worked out since Luthor didn't manage to get anything remotely significant done until AFTER Superman returned, right?
Well, there just seems to be a gulf between the matured Superman in Part II and the immature one in SR.
Why? Because he switches decision making processes to put a potential plethora of Kryptonian survivors over an Earth that seems to be doing well enough to survive, instead of in Superman II when he knowingly risked Earth to get a slice of Lois pie, after his father had warned him of the situation regarding Zod and his crew?
He pretty well swears that he can't be with Lois and devotes himself totally to the earth.
He swears nothing. He looked at E.G. Marshall and told him "I won't let you down again." That says nothing of his relationship issues or of him ever leaving the planet. Obviously he thought it was safe to take the risk of saving potential survivors over camping out rescuing cats from trees in an Earth he KNOWS is safe because he made it that way.
SR's plot would at least make more sense if it wasn't supposed to be continuing from Part II...but it needs Part II for at least some of its background...so it's just really a mess. The writers should know better.
Well, that's just it. From day one I didn't go into it expecting anything in terms of direct linkage to the original two films. Vague Sequel ring any bells? Not to beat the deadest horse deader, but they took what they wanted and didn't worry about the rest. I never went to the theater (not even the first time) thinking that it would have a complete tie-in and ultra-direct references to the previous films. Maybe they'll iron some of those things out for you in the sequel. Maybe not. I personally got the gist of what was happening enough to understand the plot and I liked the acting, so in turn I liked the movie. I honestly don't think any practical amount of discussion will likely change your mind, though.
Well, I personally find the character unnecessary...but it's true if they continued on, well, they're going to have to expand on his story...cause he really doesn't have much of one.
Definitely, man. Each to his/her own. I enjoy the fact that with a series of live-action films, the characters are forced to age and progress in a natural fashion as opposed to the comics normal stoppage of time and return to the typical status quo more often than not. I've always wanted to see what would indeed happen if Superman had a son and the relationship between the two had to play out in real time for once. I hope that they please you in the next film so you can have some of the enjoyment SR gave me and others.

I'm kind of bummed, and have been for awhile that some people who'd waited for so long were disappointed. But it comes with the territory, because this place is a shining example of the passion fans feel towards their fav'rit.
 
So you're wrong. I specifically said on film.

Not at all.

You said 'ever been a toddler'. As in 'ever'.

In best of cases you specifically skipped the words 'on film'.

Is Superman really that different?

Radically.

Batman fights because his parents were killed. In the Donner films at least, Superman exists because Pa Kent died and then Jor El told him to. Both identities were created because of their dead parents.

Oh and they both wear a cape. So they might be almost the same character.

Superman learnt a lesson out of his father's death (which is part of Donner movie but not the comics continuity). Batman only got a revenge feeling out of that; he learnt things because of the things that happnened after his parents death. Jonathan died a natural death. The Waynes were randomly killed.

Fot that matter, Spiederman was born as a hero after Uncle Ben's killing by a thug. Much more close to Batman. Still, is a no brainer Spiderman developed a guilty relationship with that event, instead of the revenge on a crazy world Batman got.

You just told me a second ago that he already has a son.

In comics.

You just told me a second ago that he didn't have a son in movies.

And Batman has come close to giving up his mantle before, like in Batman Forever, where he was close to giving it up for a relationship. But he chose to 'be both Batman and Bruce Wayne". So it's already established in a previous continuity that the character is willing to balance his two lives.

The thing is what Batman does after that. If for that continuity, that balance lead to Batman & Robin. :joker: Seriously, Schumacher's movies are not something to feel proud to base your next movies on.

But no, Batman didn't have a son in BF, but a partner who developed with Batman more a big brother-younger brother realationship than father-son.

Regardless, the conflict he would endure would make for a fascinating film, as the charcter struggles whether to be Batman or Daddy. And it's never been done on film, so I say bring on Batbaby! It worked for Superman and now it can work its magic on Batman!

'It's never been done' doesn't make it. We haven't had a farmer Batman, doesn't make it a nice idea.

Now, Superman in SR didn't decide to have a baby, but he's no doubt a character that will appreciate a son, another person like him.

Batman? Batman would see his carreer threatened by a son. Is not the kind of character that'd appreciate fatherhood as Superman would. Superman long a normal life with its beauties; Batman needs his crimefighting career to survive his own traumas.
 
And that's my point with Lois's characterization. She WOULD understand that SUperman had to go on a mission to Krypton.

Lol, noiw evey character in Superman has suddenly to be as close to perfection as possible.

I'm sorry dude. Superman in this franchise not always take the best decisions and Lois certainly is quite selfish and shallow.

And that, thanks God, allows the conflict to happen so we can have a story with some interest in it.
 
DarkMajin "Superman II" may not be in direct continuity. As I've been explaining in another thread Kal-El had only heard of Zod in the novelisation. So it doesn't have to be (in continuity). As I've also said I like using the tragic romance as a reason for the relationship and break up. Also him feeling lonely and so taking the chance to see Krypton to truly see if he was alone. But there's so many other possibilities that may not involve such scenarios (with the relationship). And it doesn't have to be negative towards him.

Angeloz

This is exactly how i saw it, he left for Krypton not only to help survivors but also because he was feeling lonely, and wanted to meet someone he could connect to. As Jor-El said "Even though you have been raised as a human being, you are not one of them."
 
You ever remember the line in S:II when she said that she's "jealous of the whole world?" I seriously doubt she'd be ready to throw him a going away party at the drop of a hat, nahmeen?

In the context of that line though, that is right before he amnesia kisses her. We have a completely different context in SR. If they were in a relationship, why would she be jealous. SHe's only jealous at the end of SII b/c they cannot be togther. ANd yet she understands. If she was simply jealous w/o understanding she'd just be mad at him. But instead she is upset b/c she UNDERSTANDS that they can't be together.

When it comes to love, some people are.

That's not really love.
Yet again, they were staying in character with what had been established prior hence in the original films. She's not a saint. Neither is Superman.

It just seems the characteizations from SR are not about them being in love but about them being selfish and immature and not REALLY being in love. That was not the characterization from the other films. THey were really in love.
When compared to some of the comic book renditions of her, yes. But it is NOTHING NEW TO THE FRANCHISE.

I disagree. I find their characterizations to be immature and very selfish and not really indicative of love, where as STM and SII characterized them as REALLY being in love and feeling love for each other.
 
They already gave a rationale for why he didn't. Lois didn't buy it, and neither do you. That's perfectly cool that you don't. So you're saying that if he would've just said "see ya later!" that you'd be completely cool with it? I've already given references of what kind of character they established in the first two films, specifically the mistakes he's made, but still you expect him to be some flawless saint with completely unshakable emotional stability. We'll have to agree to disagree, as the old saying goes.

Agreeing to disagree yes, but it appears that we view the events and characterizations of the first films differently which leads us to reading the events of SR as either in or out of character.
There were variables that weren't completely covered, as I've discussed with you in months past (which you're obviously miffed about...but it's not my problem). If the memory kiss was used, then she wouldn't be any the wiser and probably thought Jason was actually Richard's kid. This is likely why she looked so shocked when Brutus ate a piano via Jason. I personally didn't have to have every little graphic detail spelled out for me when watching the film. If you did, then that's your issue.

I just find many of the events inconsistent with the previous films and it is nearly impossible to know which events are in continuity and which aren't.

Plus, as I've said before, we view STM and SII differently so it only makes sense that that affects the way we interpret SR. I also think that our own personal beliefs and world view affect how we view SR.
 

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