Superman Returns Why Don't Some Superman Fans Like Superman Returns?

[SuperDaniel]

^One more proof that Singer doesn`t understand the character...At least u admitted your mistake on contrary of some other fans...Well done.

 

[stargazer]

^One more proof that Singer doesn`t understand the character...At least u admitted your mistake on contrary of some other fans...Well done.

Please.. proof of what?! It's not like STM is a flawless movie. I love it and think it's great, but it's not perfect. Ah, the Internet..

 

[Wushuboy]

Perhaps you should go read the last page or so as you were one of the people who believed superman left ma kent immediately after pa kent died and used this as justification and precedence for his weak and selfish act of leaving lois without saying anything in SR. I showed that he did no such thing and that donner and co never ever had that intention of even considering letting superman do such a heartless thing. Thus, there is no precedence of him ever leaving his loved ones without saying goodbye because he knows that's the right thing to do.

And once again you post shows how you take one thing and extrapolate it to mean we think S1 is a perfect movie. STM is not a perfect movie but it's far better and superior to SR and got the characterizations more correctly than SR.

 

[Spider-Fan]

S:TM was a perfect movie almost. The ending is shoddy and not explained very well and Lex's logic sometimes doesn't make sense (he shouldn't have even alerted Superman to his plan at all cause he wouldn't have stopped both missiles in that case either, and I still have no idea how he comes to the conclusion kryptonite kills him). But, these minor flaws pale in comparison to SR, which has MANY, imo.

 

[Clark Kent]

Perhaps you should go read the last page or so as you were one of the people who believed superman left ma kent immediately after pa kent died and used this as justification and precedence for his weak and selfish act of leaving lois without saying anything in SR. I showed that he did no such thing and that donner and co never ever had that intention of even considering letting superman do such a heartless thing. Thus, there is no precedence of him ever leaving his loved ones without saying goodbye because he knows that's the right thing to do.

And once again you post shows how you take one thing and extrapolate it to mean we think S1 is a perfect movie. STM is not a perfect movie but it's far better and superior to SR and got the characterizations more correctly than SR.

Weren't you banned? I thought I read one of your posts a few days ago and it said "Banned User" under your name? Were you allowed back? Or am I confusing you with someone else?

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Agreed on everything. In this version of Lois, she is still somewhat immature, selfish and very self-centered. But after the talk she had with Superman in SR (during their flight together, especially after he shares his burden with her: "you wrote that the world doesn't need a saviour, but every day I hear people crying out for one"), she begins to understand his position and there is a change in her attitude towards him. She is maturing.

Exactly, she does definately change her attitude towards him at this point, and accepts his apology, i just wish in the scene were she interviews him he would have explained a bit more about leaving for Krypton. He told Martha but not Lois, i just he would have said something along the lines of:

"But when astronimers(sp?) thought they found it, I had to see for myself, if there was a chance it was still there, that there were some survivors i had to go and see."

But i gues he never said anything more about their personal relationship because he knew she would was publishing the interview.

 

[stargazer]

Exactly, she does definately change her attitude towards him at this point, and accepts his apology, i just wish in the scene were she interviews him he would have explained a bit more about leaving for Krypton. He told Martha but not Lois, i just he would have said something along the lines of:

"But when astronimers(sp?) thought they found it, I had to see for myself, if there was a chance it was still there, that there were some survivors i had to go and see."

But i gues he never said anything more about their personal relationship because he knew she would was publishing the interview.

He tried to explain things to her, that's why he went up there to the rooftop in the first place, but she was too bitter at him, and when he saw that he wasn't getting through her, that's when he thought of taking Lois for a flight up in the sky to show her what it really means to be Superman, to be so powerful that he can hear everything, and the huge responsibility that that brings. After that little exchange, her attitude towards him changed; she began to realize that being Superman was something bigger than she could ever imagined. He elevated her to his level. When he says 'you wrote that the world doesn't need a savior, but every day I hear people crying out for one,' if you look at her face, she is almost to the point of crying, she is overwhelmed; she is in the presence of a merciful god. I'm sure that he would have told her more things and given her more details on his trip and why he left that way during the rooftop scenes, but she didn't really allow it in the first place. At least that's how I see it.

 

[SuperDaniel]

Except in that scene we also have Superman being out of character too. Flirting with Lois telling her "I`m better than your fiancee", they almost kissing etc...

 

[charl_huntress]

He tried to explain things to her, that's why he went up there to the rooftop in the first place, but she was too bitter at him, and when he saw that he wasn't getting through her, that's when he thought of taking Lois for a flight up in the sky to show her what it really means to be Superman, to be so powerful that he can hear everything, and the huge responsibility that that brings. After that little exchange, her attitude towards him changed; she began to realize that being Superman was something bigger than she could ever imagined. He elevated her to his level. When he says 'you wrote that the world doesn't need Superman, but every day I hear people crying out for one,' if you look at her face, she is almost to the point of crying, she is overwhelmed; she is in the presence of a merciful god. I'm sure that he would have told her more things and given her more details on his trip and why he left that way during the rooftop scenes, but she didn't really allow it in the first place. At least that's how I see it.

Why would Lois Lane need reminding of the fact that he's Superman?

Anyway, the way that scene played to me was he went there to talk to her. She is pissy with him. So, he scoops her up and takes her on a flight. Problem solved because when they get back to the roof they almost kiss. Viola...she's no longer pissy. Also, one problem with the whole merciful God thing is it seems sort of clear that Superman and Lois were having a relationship (even though she doesn't know he's Clark). She says something to the effect of he left her, though she corrects herself. That's a pretty personal take, and the way the scene played to me was like two old lovers trying to reconcile what they feel for each other...because one of the two did the other wrong.

 

[Wushuboy]

Weren't you banned? I thought I read one of your posts a few days ago and it said "Banned User" under your name? Were you allowed back? Or am I confusing you with someone else?

You must definately be confused then as I've never been banned.

 

[C. Lee]

it seems sort of clear that Superman and Lois were having a relationship (even though she doesn't know he's Clark). She says something to the effect of he left her, though she corrects herself. That's a pretty personal take, and the way the scene played to me was like two old lovers trying to reconcile what they feel for each other...because one of the two did the other wrong.

It can also mean that Lois feels like she has a special bond with Superman (she has always felt that Supes was her own personal protector and savior, which can lead to feelings of love, closeness, and dependance...and basicly over looked Clark)....so she can be upset at Superman leaving with out telling her anything and it can in no way be due to them having a real boyfriend/girlfriend type of relationship.

 

[charl_huntress]

It can also mean that Lois feels like she has a special bond with Superman (she has always felt that Supes was her own personal protector and savior, which can lead to feelings of love, closeness, and dependance...and basicly over looked Clark)....so she can be upset at Superman leaving with out telling her anything and it can in no way be due to them having a real boyfriend/girlfriend type of relationship.

They obvioulsy have a bond named Jason. The "bond" seemingly shown in that scene truly only speaks of her feelings, since the public clearly accepts him right after he gets back. She's the one with the problem in that scene, and Superman specifically goes to roof to try and sort it out. That rings of love gone bad, not a woman pining for a lost God. The fact it is later revealed that they have a child makes that scene more prevalent to speaking of Lois' feelings...and the fact that they did share some sort of intimacy/relationship.

 

[El Payaso]

Except in that scene we also have Superman being out of character too. Flirting with Lois telling her "I`m better than your fiancee", they almost kissing etc...

His actual message was for me "be honest, remember who you really love and leave your spite behind you. You don't wanna marry Richard after all those years so what's the point in being with him for spite only"

Why would Lois Lane need reminding of the fact that he's Superman?

She doesn't need to be reminded the fact he's Superman but - as Mostpowerful said - "what it really means to be Superman and the huge responsibility that that brings." Two different things.

Anyway, the way that scene played to me was he went there to talk to her. She is pissy with him. So, he scoops her up and takes her on a flight. Problem solved because when they get back to the roof they almost kiss. Viola...she's no longer pissy.

It wasn't just the flight but what he told her. Being Superman is such a big resposibility that he can't have a normal life and making her top priority as in a regular couple.

Also, one problem with the whole merciful God thing is it seems sort of clear that Superman and Lois were having a relationship (even though she doesn't know he's Clark). She says something to the effect of he left her, though she corrects herself. That's a pretty personal take, and the way the scene played to me was like two old lovers trying to reconcile what they feel for each other...because one of the two did the other wrong.

It's very much like that. But he is also giving her some reasons attached to his personal mission. Wasn't he Superman, he would have never gone to Krypton.

 

[charl_huntress]

She doesn't need to be reminded the fact he's Superman but - as Mostpowerful said - "what it really means to be Superman and the huge responsibility that that brings." Two different things. It wasn't just the flight but what he told her. Being Superman is such a big resposibility that he can't have a normal life and making her top priority as in a regular couple.

Obviously she's not his top priority. He's been gone for five years. She's pissed with him because he left without saying goodbye. They were in a relationship...or something. This is the way this scene plays because no one else is mad at Superman but Lois. Also, him telling her he has greater responsibilites to the earth rings hollow after his five year absence.

 

[C. Lee]

They obvioulsy have a bond named Jason. The "bond" seemingly shown in that scene truly only speaks of her feelings, since the public clearly accepts him right after he gets back. She's the one with the problem in that scene, and Superman specifically goes to roof to try and sort it out. That rings of love gone bad, not a woman pining for a lost God. The fact it is later revealed that they have a child makes that scene more prevalent to speaking of Lois' feelings...and the fact that they did share some sort of intimacy/relationship.

In the movies....they were intimate once....then the experience was wiped from her memory and Superman didn't sleep with her again.

 

[charl_huntress]

In the movies....they were intimate once....then the experience was wiped from her memory and Superman didn't sleep with her again.

Yet, when asked about this Singer said he assumed Lois remembered...ergo no mind rape. So, that blows that right out the window. Also, his vague history never acknowledges this, and Lois' actions don't ring true of a woman with no memory of intimacy. Why would did they almost kiss if there was nothing between them? Why would she take his abandonment so personally? Again, it's hard to say this follows SII because she and Superman didn't have a relationship after the mind rape. So, going by SR if she never really forgot then they picked up the sex again...sometime in the future before he went back to Krypton.

 

[C. Lee]

Yet, when asked about this Singer said that he just assumed she remembered that one time...ergo no mind rape. So,that blows that right out the window.

In my opinion, he can't pick and choose which parts of the Reeve movies he wants to adhere to and which parts to discard. Either this movie is part of that world....or it isn't. A little bit here and a little bit there doesn't work. Also....since so much of SR is based upon the Reeve movies, if he wants to discard a part of their excepted storyline from his movie...he should at least make it very clear IN THE MOVIE that there is a change....not rely upon people having heard some interview he did somewhere for their understanding of what is going on.

 

[charl_huntress]

In my opinion, he can't pick and choose which parts of the Reeve movies he wants to adhere to and which parts to discard. Either this movie is part of that world....or it isn't. A little bit here and a little bit there doesn't work. Also....since so much of SR is based upon the Reeve movies, if he wants to discard a part of their excepted storyline from his movie...he should at least make it very clear IN THE MOVIE that there is a change....not rely upon people having heard some interview he did somewhere for their understanding of what is going on.

Agreed C. Lee, but Singer repeatedly said SR was a vague history, which of course means he took what he wanted and left what he didn't. Also, he gave young Clark glasses, which he clearly didn't have in the first two movies. For me that rooftop scene reeks of prior relationship, which means that Lois never forgot or they picked up the relationship again afterwards. That especially bothers me because it's damn creepy that she STILL didn't know he was Clark.

 

[C. Lee]

Agreed C. Lee, but Singer repeatedly said SR was a vague history, which of course means he took what he wanted and left what he didn't. Also, he gave young Clark glasses, which he clearly didn't have in the first two movies. For me that rooftop scene reeks of prior relationship, which means that Lois never forgot or they picked up the relationship again afterwards. That especially bothers me because it's damn creepy that she STILL didn't know he was Clark.

Vague history=bad writing.

I would like to see some of these versions http://fanedit.org/all-superman-fanedits/

 

[charl_huntress]

Vague history=bad writing.

I would like to see some of these versions http://fanedit.org/all-superman-fanedits/

Agreed, and thanks again for hipping me to Bronze Man

I'm going to check this out...I've read some really good fanfics that were much better than SR even tried to be.

 

[C. Lee]

That link is to fan edits of the movies. I haven't been able to see them, but others say they are very well done.

 

[charl_huntress]

That link is to fan edits of the movies. I haven't been able to see them, but others say they are very well done.

WOW...I just went there and you're not kidding. I'm downloading now. I'm interested to see how a different version of SR would have played. I doubt it will make me like the movie any more, but this has definitely sparked my interest.

 

[Super Kal]

i would make the effort, but none of them have what I'm looking for

 

[charl_huntress]

What are you looking for, SuperKal?

 

[Super Kal]

all I want is a more colorful Superman movie... that's all I'm looking for right now