Why is downloading so taboo here?

[JewishHobbit]

Well i don't like that really either tbh.

I personally don't know how people find time to sit in a comic shop and read them. Skimming doesn't bother me because people should have an idea of what they're giving their money for... but to read an entire issue... no clue. But people do it at my shop all the time, including the owners and employees.

I guess I can see it at a bookstore with trades though. They set out them nice comfy chairs and everything.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I was just saying that I think you're stretching the word support a bit much. I mean, honestly, how are you supporting these writers/artists/creators by not paying for their material? Sitting on the sidelines and saying, 'You go, man, you go!'. I mean, that's nice, I'm sure that's flattering for them and all, but when they have bills to pay, mouths to feed, it'd probably seem a little hollow, don't you think?

And, yes, maybe you get some others on his field from the sidelines, but maybe you don't. It's all in the air as far as that is concerned.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not in support of this system by any means, but I still recognize how it works.

Oh, I can see you point, and when it comes to marvel co. finances I can also see the complaint against downloading. I'm just curious about the opinions of Marvel and their employees toward fans. Yes, if someone downloads to download, I can see that being infuriating, and justifiably so, but to be upset at a fan who wants to support you but can't... I just can't wrap my brain around that. I think that's when it becomes all about money and not at all about the people.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Yeah, I would say for a lot of them it probably is all about money and not about people. I mean, I agree, it shouldn't be, but idealists are rare in the entertainment industry, and when they do pop up they either get torn to pieces for the sake of commercialism or they exclude themselves before hand and withdraw from the mainstream.

I'd say for those writers/artists/creators that care more about the art aspect, they would probably be happy that you are continuing it, but it would still be a somewhat bitter pill. They may care for that aspect, but still need money to support themselves and their families, especially those who are trying to make a career purely on these endeavors.

 

[Patch]

Really as the law stands right now, pirating copyrighted materials is wrong, the board doesn't want to encourage people doing something that might bring a negative light to these forums and jeopardize the continuation.

That being said instead of resisting the change in media, the industry could adapt, free subs to titles online (that say every 5 pages force you for 30 secs to 1 min to view ads) vs. a pay sub model that lets you bypass the ads instantly if you wish. (Keep the ads in regardless if someone can skip them or not, as a boost to revenue.

Your die hard collectors are still going to be looking for print copies, that's not going to change. You people who want to read the titles, but don't have time or inclination to put up with advertising have an option to shave 2-5 mins of viewing ads off every comic they read. And finally those that are stealing the comics anyways, might just see a product they like and purchase it, which at least justifies the ad in options.

As it stands right now, its still wrong, but the industry has some options, they are simply resisting the changing times.

Keep in mind too, greed is also a factor in this. Musicians, actors, writers, film makers and all of the people behind the scenes of the entertainment industry are making money else they wouldn't be bringing products to market. The demands for all facets of entertainment are still there, people are just more selective about which gem and which turd gets there money, thanks to instant, and before hand reviews of products before they even hit the general market.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Well i don't like that really either tbh.

Good Lord man. If you dislike people skimming the book in the stores, then no wonder downloading is horrible to you. You must be a rich man. I'd much rather skim a book and find out that it's a piece of crap, than buy and find that out when I get home and am $4 poorer.

 

[Spider-Jay420]

You're kinda missing the point here. What if the person CAN'T pay for it. If the money just isn't there and won't be any time in the forseeable future... but he still loves the series and creative team and WANTS to continue supporting them.

Word of mouth can be a powerful thing, but without the tool to put those words in your mouth it can never happen. Not to mention the moral support and the hopes of maintaining that fan who may fall away from the creative teams stuff later on if they lose interest now.

I think you're ignoring the point here. If you can't afford it, guess what? You don't buy it. I'm sorry if that's mean or hurts your feelings, but if you can't afford something, whatever it is, you go without it. Just because you love something you can't afford, doesn't mean you should steal it.

And I don't think your word of mouth supporting angle works, either. Only because if you tell your friend how awesome Incredible Hercules is, and he says "Cool. Next time you go buy one, grab one for me." You say,"Oh, I don't buy them. I just DL them because $3.99 is so expensive. But, uh, YOU should buy one to support iHerc and keep the series going."

He's gonna roll his eyes, and say "whatever, if you got a free copy, then I want one too".

And now both of you are downloading comics.

 

[iloveclones]

People who aren't eating should consider dropping their internet service and selling their computer if life is that rough. (Although, spending a few minutes at Wal-Mart pretty much convinces me that even the poor are managing to find large quantities of food in this country.)

 

[Drz]

Good Lord man. If you dislike people skimming the book in the stores, then no wonder downloading is horrible to you. You must be a rich man. I'd much rather skim a book and find out that it's a piece of crap, than buy and find that out when I get home and am $4 poorer.

Or i do what people should do. If i'm unsure about the comic. I:
A) Check reviews
B) Read a forum
C) Lol download it illegally and then depend whenever or not to buy it because stealing is the easy way to go!

Really i've sadly have wasted money on comics i didn't like, but theres nothing that justifies us stealing and not supporting the people who work on these things.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Or i do what people should do. If i'm unsure about the comic. I:
A) Check reviews
B) Read a forum
C) Lol download it illegally and then depend whenever or not to buy it because stealing is the easy way to go!

Really i've sadly have wasted money on comics i didn't like, but theres nothing that justifies us stealing and not supporting the people who work on these things.

No amount of reviews can tell you whether you'll like a comic or not. It's all a matter of opinion.

You know that forums never have anything good to say about anything.

You could download it, but if you're worried about your conscience I don't see the prob with skimming it in the store.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I think you're ignoring the point here. If you can't afford it, guess what? You don't buy it. I'm sorry if that's mean or hurts your feelings, but if you can't afford something, whatever it is, you go without it. Just because you love something you can't afford, doesn't mean you should steal it.

If you can't afford the book, and you aren't spending money on it, and you download it... you know what? Marvel's still not out a single dime, because they weren't getting your money anyway. And as apposed to if you actually steal a comic for real, in the folds of your jacket, no one's out anything.

My opinion... downloading is illegal... but it isn't stealing. It's as much stealing as reading a friend's copy or a copy in the comic shop. It's questionably unethical, but there's nothign about it that is stealing. I think it's just stealing because it's the magic "D" word, hen there are other means of reading a book that's just the same results but isn't stealing apparently.

And I don't think your word of mouth supporting angle works, either. Only because if you tell your friend how awesome Incredible Hercules is, and he says "Cool. Next time you go buy one, grab one for me." You say,"Oh, I don't buy them. I just DL them because $3.99 is so expensive. But, uh, YOU should buy one to support iHerc and keep the series going."

He's gonna roll his eyes, and say "whatever, if you got a free copy, then I want one too".

And now both of you are downloading comics.

Yeah, don't see that happening. Most comic fans want floppies. If they can afford them, they'll buy them. I know very few who download large quantities (and those few I'm just guessing from on here). And if they do download, most times they'll do it to try it and if they like it they'll start buying it. And if they don't then they won't... and being that they wouldn't have started without the advice, Marvel's still not out any money.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Or i do what people should do. If i'm unsure about the comic. I:
A) Check reviews
B) Read a forum
C) Lol download it illegally and then depend whenever or not to buy it because stealing is the easy way to go!

Really i've sadly have wasted money on comics i didn't like, but theres nothing that justifies us stealing and not supporting the people who work on these things.

How is reading reviews better than skimming? Instead of skimming and getting the story yourself, you let someone else read the book and get the story from them. Eiter way you're still getting the story without buying it.

 

[Dan_Slott]

This is such a tricky subject to talk about. Mainly because it's the nature of ANY individual (myself included) to cast themselves as the hero and/or victim of their own story. And from that P.O.V., any kind of behavior can be justified if a person can find the right rationalization for it.

I really don't want to address any specific individual here. Because no one likes to be confronted personally and be called a "thief". But illegally downloading IS stealing. Plain and simple.

Every comic has an indicia that clearly says that you're not allowed to copy and/or reprint this material w/o permission of the company. When you make the CHOICE to illegally download that material you're complicit.

Let me be perfectly clear here: Laws have been passed in this country which state that even someone who downloads a copy JUST for themselves, even if they're NOT reselling it, they've committed a crime.

Do I want people to read what I write? In the SHORT GAME: Yes, but...

That's not a "yes" that's a "yes, but..." You can't separate that and make that a "yes" across the board. It's a CONDITIONAL "yes". And here's the condition...

...for the LONG GAME, I NEED people to PAY for what I write. That PURCHASE equals a VOTE. That VOTE gives me power, security, and freedom as a writer. The more VOTES I get, my stock (not actual company stock, but "stock" as in "merit") goes up. That means: Better chances for raises in pay. Better chances to work on higher profile projects. Better chances to work with higher profile creators. Better chances for having my voice counted in creative summits. Better chances to have the freedom to tell the stories I want to tell. I could go on and on. That purchase, that VOTE, is HOW a reader can BEST support me, fellow creators, and the HARD WORK we've put into projects. That's SUPPORT. Does that make sense?

I appreciate that these are financially tough times. I appreciate that there are people who live in places where American comics are not readily available. I appreciate that some people have mitigating factors that hinder them from purchasing comics.

But illegal downloads ARE illegal. And, on a personal note, they do an end run on the unspoken contract between creators and their audience. The creators work hard to put out a product for the audience enjoyment, if the audience consumes the entire benefits of that work and doesn't cast that VOTE, please understand, that HURTS our chances of future pay AND creative freedoms. It just doesn't feel right.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

I think everybody here agrees that it's theft and therefore illegal

 

[Tron Bonne]

Yeah, I agree, I think everyone here does realize that. I think it's become more of a discussion of, 'Right, but what if...' type of deal. Justification and moral gray areas and such

 

[JewishHobbit]

This is such a tricky subject to talk about. Mainly because it's the nature of ANY individual (myself included) to cast themselves as the hero and/or victim of their own story. And from that P.O.V., any kind of behavior can be justified if a person can find the right rationalization for it.

I really don't want to address any specific individual here. Because no one likes to be confronted personally and be called a "thief". But illegally downloading IS stealing. Plain and simple.

Every comic has an indicia that clearly says that you're not allowed to copy and/or reprint this material w/o permission of the company. When you make the CHOICE to illegally download that material you're complicit.

Let me be perfectly clear here: Laws have been passed in this country which state that even someone who downloads a copy JUST for themselves, even if they're NOT reselling it, they've committed a crime.

Do I want people to read what I write? In the SHORT GAME: Yes, but...

That's not a "yes" that's a "yes, but..." You can't separate that and make that a "yes" across the board. It's a CONDITIONAL "yes". And here's the condition...

...for the LONG GAME, I NEED people to PAY for what I write. That PURCHASE equals a VOTE. That VOTE gives me power, security, and freedom as a writer. The more VOTES I get, my stock (not actual company stock, but "stock" as in "merit") goes up. That means: Better chances for raises in pay. Better chances to work on higher profile projects. Better chances to work with higher profile creators. Better chances for having my voice counted in creative summits. Better chances to have the freedom to tell the stories I want to tell. I could go on and on. That purchase, that VOTE, is HOW a reader can BEST support me, fellow creators, and the HARD WORK we've put into projects. That's SUPPORT. Does that make sense?

I appreciate that these are financially tough times. I appreciate that there are people who live in places where American comics are not readily available. I appreciate that some people have mitigating factors that hinder them from purchasing comics.

But illegal downloads ARE illegal. And, on a personal note, they do an end run on the unspoken contract between creators and their audience. The creators work hard to put out a product for the audience enjoyment, if the audience consumes the entire benefits of that work and doesn't cast that VOTE, please understand, that HURTS our chances of future pay AND creative freedoms. It just doesn't feel right.

I can understand this. I know that the little that I download, and the way I do it, doesn't take any money away from anyone... but download in general can be damaging.

I do hate that the way Marvel's charging these days and how money is more important to them than fans, but I can at least understand the principals behind what you say as listed above. You've at least helped me see that a bit more clearly.

Of course, you guys probably wouldn't have to worry about this quite so much if your bosses didn't raise prices dramatically and unrealistically in a time of nationwide financial hardship.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Okay, I think I'll talk a little about my experience with illegal downloading, in other mediums before eventually getting round to comics.

Generally speaking, I am against downloading from the internet. I'm not going to be morally judgemental against those who do, but aside from everything else (much of which Dan Slott compellingly touched on earlier) I think they're doing themselves a disservice. A movie is much better when viewed in a packed cinema on a big screen with surround sound. And a comic is much better when it's a book you can hold in your hands.

However, though my stance is generally against, there are occasions when I've slipped. Most often, and most prominently, with the downloading of music. I used Napster back in the day, and Soulseek more recently, downloading singles I liked rather than seeking out filler-packed albums or soundtracks. However, I did eventually come to the conclusion that this was wrong, and signed up with iTunes so I could legally download music. I paid money to download a large selection of songs. But when I went to put these legally-downloaded tunes onto my MP3 player, none of them worked. I did a little research, and found the problem: my MP3 player isn't an iPod - iTunes downloads are only compatible with an iPod. So not only would I have to buy an iPod to legally listen to downloaded music, but I don't think my hundreds of songs on my current MP3 player would be compatible with an iPod either, so I'd have to go back and re-buy all of them. Don't know what I'm doing there, so I've stopped downloading music from anywhere now, and when it comes to collecting new music just buy a new album on occasion.

The other area where I've slipped is with television. I myself don't download TV shows, but I will visit my friend's house and sometimes watch shows he's downloaded. I don't condone downloading movies at all, but with TV I'm more likely to play along, and here's why. The RIDICULOUS delays we get for TV shows here in the UK. A lot of American stations do hard-assed deals with foreign channels, insuring that America gets first broadcast rights at least a year in advance (but often longer) before the UK and other countries get to see it, in order to "protect their status". This often puts us a full season behind America on many shows. Most of the time, I wait, and obsessively avoid spoilers. But on some occasions (Season 5 of 24 and Season 4 of The Shield spring to mind) I can't wait and need to keep up with America.

I'm about to relent and start watching Dexter Season 4 with my friend. Season 3 finished not too long ago here, and there's no sign of Season 4 hitting any time soon, while my friend (who's been downloading each week) says Season 4 is the best yet. An American letting slip a major plot spoiler was the final nudge that made me decide I'm going to bite the bullet and play catch-up for this. Sky One have paid a lot of extra money to get earlier broadcast rights, and now show programmes like Lost, House, Fringe and 24 a mere week after America. I hope similar deals can be worked out for more US shows, so I don't have to resort to condoning piracy. For those Americans who disapprove, I can only ask you: if you found out that the UK was getting Iron Man 2 on April 2010, but you had to wait until June 2011 for a US cinema release, would you not be tempted to endorse piracy?

Right, now onto comics. No, I do not download comics. As someone who hopes to one day work as a comic book writer, I appreciate how hard those within the comics industry work to make a living. Sales can struggle at the best of times, without numbers being further hurt by all the illegal downloading going on. While piracy does little to REALLY hurt the big industries like music and Hollywood, it can be really damaging to a smaller medium like comics. I don't want quality smaller titles to be in danger of cancellation. I don't want comic book stores to shut down. This is an industry we should all be supporting with our wallets each week. Yeah, prices go up. But you know what? I find the money to buy the titles I want to buy, even if that means cutting the ones that are less important.

That said, I was sad to see the demise of Scans Daily. To me, that getting shut down was a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It was, for all intensive purposes, the comic book Youtube, the chance to get a partial glimpse of comics past and present - not whole issues, but enough to perhaps entice people to check out comics they may have otherwise ignored or maybe never even have heard of. There had been comics I bought because I liked the little snippet I saw on Scans Daily. And it was more than just printing pages from comics - you had fascinating essays discussing trends with characters and titles, using scans from across decades of comics history to illustrate their arguments. It was a great community, and I was sad to see it get labelled as simple piracy and shut down. The worst thing about it is, when Scans Daily went under, I'm sure that the Torrent sites - the REAL pirates - enjoyed a big surge in site traffic.

There's only been one instance where I've illegally downloaded a comic. I hope you can forgive me, allow me to explain the mitigating circumstances. Blackest Night #0. I knew it was coming out on Free Comic Book Day for months in advance, and I wanted it, bad. Weeks in advance, I asked the seller at one of my local comic stores (the only one participating in Free Comic Day) if they'd be getting it in, and they said yes. I checked again a couple of days before the big day, and with annoyance the guy again told me yes. I even scheduled that Saturday off work so I could go in and pick it up. And then Saturday came... and my Grandad was rushed into hospital. I spent the whole day there with him, pretty much. At one point, though it was far from front of my mind at that particular moment, I called the guy at the comic store and said I'd had a family emergency, would there be any chance he could put aside a copy of Blackest Night #0 for me to pick up the next day. He said he wasn't sure, he'd see. The next day, I rushed into the comic store, and the seller took great pleasure in gloatingly telling me they had no copies left, before smarmily adding that I could "buy it off eBay" if I wanted.

Buy a free comic book off eBay. No.

So, I went online, and pieced together the issue by saving images I found. Scans of the story from one site. Scans of Geoff Johns' message from another. Then the various Corps profiles from DC's site. Put it all together into a folder on my computer, labelled it Blackest Night #0. My one illegal comic download, though it was of a free comic I wouldn't have been paying for anyway. And I later got the comic in my free swag bag when I signed in on Preview Night at the San Diego Comic-Con.

 

[bryanss3]

No amount of reviews can tell you whether you'll like a comic or not. It's all a matter of opinion.

You know that forums never have anything good to say about anything.

You could download it, but if you're worried about your conscience I don't see the prob with skimming it in the store.

soo true. I've made my ssh! appearance this week carry on

 

[iloveclones]

I thought I might turn this discussion on it's ear a bit, and talk about what I would like in terms of Marvel/DC/Image/etc putting there product out for digital consumption.

First off, Marvel's current Online Digital System: Despite it's many flaws, I'm subscribed to it (twice actually, one as a present to a friend). I'll probably cancel mine, primarily because of the lack of content. I know they have thousands of comics, but when I want to go back and read a run, and only 1 or 2 are available, to me, that's a content problem. If they improved on that one thing, I would definately stick with it.

In a perfect world:

**I want to own what I buy. Sometimes, believe it or not, I'm not online.

**I suppose my price tolerance would be $1.00 for a "new" (in the past 6 months) issue, $0.25 for anything 6 months-3 years, and basically $0.10 for anything older than 3 years. That would be about $30 for a 300 issue run which is about what GIT was charging (most, if not all, of which I bought)

** I actually kind of like Marvel's Online viewing system. I wouldn't mind at all if they offered that with a Pay type system.

I honestly don't see what roadblocks prevent Marvel from having some kind of an iComics system.

 

[Donald Thomas]

I thought I might turn this discussion on it's ear a bit, and talk about what I would like in terms of Marvel/DC/Image/etc putting there product out for digital consumption.

First off, Marvel's current Online Digital System: Despite it's many flaws, I'm subscribed to it (twice actually, one as a present to a friend). I'll probably cancel mine, primarily because of the lack of content. I know they have thousands of comics, but when I want to go back and read a run, and only 1 or 2 are available, to me, that's a content problem. If they improved on that one thing, I would definately stick with it.

In a perfect world:

**I want to own what I buy. Sometimes, believe it or not, I'm not online.

**I suppose my price tolerance would be $1.00 for a "new" (in the past 6 months) issue, $0.25 for anything 6 months-3 years, and basically $0.10 for anything older than 3 years. That would be about $30 for a 300 issue run which is about what GIT was charging (most, if not all, of which I bought)

** I actually kind of like Marvel's Online viewing system. I wouldn't mind at all if they offered that with a Pay type system.

I honestly don't see what roadblocks prevent Marvel from having some kind of an iComics system.

Aloha,
At the end of the day, the only reason Marvel has an Online comic book reading service today is because people who scan comic books, proved to them that there was an actual MARKET for digital comic book content. I have NEVER believed in 0 day comic book scanning. That is an outright violation of Marvel's or any other comic book companies right to sell their product. But, if I buy a comic book and read it and then leave it at my barber shop and 15 people over the course of the month read that same comic book, should all 15 have to pay?If I buy a CD and lend it to my cousin who then lends it to his friend, should my cousin and his friend have to pay? By virtue of what makes a book rare, books on paper will NEVER go out of style, but a time will come when you will be able to get both the hard copy of the comic and the digital version as well. The Ereaders are going to create a new market for illustrated content(comics) and the comic book companies will have to respond.But it was the scanners who wanted to preserve the Silver and Modern Age of comics(Back issues).The major companies don't sell back issues and unless they were planning an Annual or Special, the old stuff had little financial value to them.Marvel has already given license to two companies to create CD and DVD of back issues Amazing Spider-Man and a few more, so I'm not sure why their on line service does not allow you to download the comic.
Spidey rules

 

[Max J Power]

To throw in my personal experience, I've only downloaded comics for two purposes: (1) To preview a book to see if I will like it. I realize this is a theft, but I can't afford to buy many issue without knowing I'm going to read the ongoing series. I never would have gotten into Slott's Mighty Avengers, for example, if I hadn't downloaded his first issue (which I did buy and still buy every month). (2) I know I'm going to buy an issue, but I won't get the physical copy for awhile. I'm going to download the newest issue of Invincible Iron Man, for example, because I won't get my copy from my Marvel subscription until I go home for winter break in three weeks. I would also download a book if it was unavailable in trade (or the trade was long out of print) and, as far as I know, would not be in trade in the foreseeable future. This has not come up, though.

I buy this concept of "voting" but I have one area of uncertainty. If my memory serves me right, I've read 29 trades by Brian K. Vaughan, but I've only bought one of them. I checked out the other 28 from my county public library system. Have I completely wronged Vaughan and robbed him of a few hundred dollars worth of votes, even though I didn't steal this books or read them in any illegal way?

 

[Colossal Spoons]

I buy this concept of "voting" but I have one area of uncertainty. If my memory serves me right, I've read 29 trades by Brian K. Vaughan, but I've only bought one of them. I checked out the other 28 from my county public library system. Have I completely wronged Vaughan and robbed him of a few hundred dollars worth of votes, even though I didn't steal this books or read them in any illegal way?

Interesting point

 

[JewishHobbit]

That is an interesting idea. So I guess we can put that up there with skimming and reading reviews. You're getting the story without owning the physical copy and the Marvel people aren't getting a dime for it.

I dunno, I think it's all the same thing... all that and downloading. But only downloading is illegal and taboo. I see what Mr. Slott is saying above, but I don't really see the ramifications of downloading and these other things being any differant.

 

[iloveclones]

I buy this concept of "voting" but I have one area of uncertainty. If my memory serves me right, I've read 29 trades by Brian K. Vaughan, but I've only bought one of them. I checked out the other 28 from my county public library system. Have I completely wronged Vaughan and robbed him of a few hundred dollars worth of votes, even though I didn't steal this books or read them in any illegal way?

It's something I thought about before, and my answer would be twofold: (1) If you asked a bean-counter (not a creative person) at Marvel, and forced him to be really, really honest, he would probably admit that he doesn't like the practice. I mean, no-one would ever really admit to this. It's like saying that you don't believe in kill-free shelters, or telling kids that Santa doesn't exist. In the end, though, I think anyone looking at the big picture realizes that it helps the industry. This same argument could be applied to downloading, but I think the scale at which it's done invalidates it's own argument. In other words, you're one guy, reading one comic, one at a time at the library. Not 1000 people passing around 300-comic torrents.


(2)There's a consent (tacit or otherwise) that is going on here. Marvel, mainly by publishing trades, knows that free libraries exist in this country, and that they are used to distribute (primarily) published content. They agree to this merely by being in the publishing business. I suppose there is some mechanism that exists where they can ask different library systems not to stock their product (but I've never really heard of it, just talking out of my ass a bit.) And just the opposite, again, they probably view this as a good thing. Downloading, on the other hand, they have made clearly known that they DO NOT give consent.

 

[Spider-Jay420]

I buy this concept of "voting" but I have one area of uncertainty. If my memory serves me right, I've read 29 trades by Brian K. Vaughan, but I've only bought one of them. I checked out the other 28 from my county public library system. Have I completely wronged Vaughan and robbed him of a few hundred dollars worth of votes, even though I didn't steal this books or read them in any illegal way?

No, you're alright. Vaughn got his "votes" because someone, somewhere purchased those books at one point. If someone donated them to the library out of kindness, that's awesome!! Be thankful.

I doubt they we stolen from Borders, and then donated to your library.

 

[JewishHobbit]

No, you're alright. Vaughn got his "votes" because someone, somewhere purchased those books at one point. If someone donated them to the library out of kindness, that's awesome!! Be thankful.

I doubt they we stolen from Borders, and then donated to your library.

But only one person bought that trade, and hundreds are reading it without buying it.

How is that differant from one person buying it, and hundreds downloading it without buying it?