Why is downloading so taboo here?

[8Diagrams(WU)]

The internet has changed things a bit. The way I see it, if there is something that presents a worthwhile service or property, the consumers will pay for it. Downloading went mainstream close to 10 years ago and all these industries are still around. They just want to control profits to the max but its proving too difficult.

Anyways people will pay if they feel their money is worth it. To go to the movies, you pay for the big screen experience, with comics you pay to have a professionally printed artform, etc. The ones that suffer the most are the music industry but those guys have been overpriced greedy crooks for decades now and they got what they deserve. Where they suffer is in the fact that their product does not actually present any service(like the movie theatre does) but for a while a CD was worth prob twice the cost of a movie ticket!

One thing these industries dont like to talk too much about is that downloading also works as a marketing tool of sorts as it allows people to sample their products. A downloaded item does not equal a lost sale always because lets face it, most stuff you download you would not pay to have if you had to pay for it. Through downloading you expose yourself to new products you wouldnt have had a chance to in the past and it may lead you to buy a shirt or a comic, or a dvd or whatver in the future that you wouldnt if you hadnt downloaded it.

I think downloading for personal purpose is ok and that is the way things are turning out in society. Where I have the problem is downloading for financial gain(bootleging, etc). Thats where it goes wrong imo.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Pirating was a bit of a murky area for me. As far as I've been able to clarify it with other mods, you're not allowed to mention or give out links to websites where others can pirate stuff and you're not allowed to specifically ask for pirated materials or websites where you can pirate stuff on the Hype. Talking about downloading comics isn't necessarily prohibited, but it does have kind of a "don't ask, don't tell" policy, as someone stated earlier.

 

[iloveclones]

Ergo, people who download are gay.....


Logic is fun!

 

[JewishHobbit]

It is a good argument against those who habitually download comics, but what do you think about people like me, who at times, simply can't afford it? I just went through my buy list and had to drop around 7 titles just to reach 'barely affordable' levels, and I'll be doing it again in a few months once Dark Reign ends. While I enjoy Mighty Avengers, it'll likely be one of them I drop. I have nothing against the title, in fact it was a surprise book that I didn't expect to like but came to love, but the way my ongoing finances are I'm having to start losing out on titles that I enjoy but just can't afford to support any longer. (And on a side note: you can thank your bosses for that. If not for all the minis/oneshots and afew of my ongoings going $4 per book I could probably afford maybe anther 3 or 4 books a month, and Mighty would most likely have been one of those.)

So do you think that I shouldn't be able to still enjoy your work by downloading when I just can't afford it anymore? I want to buy the book, I want to own it and enjoy it, but money just isn't allowing it anymore.

 

[Themanofbat]

At the end of the day, it's all about priorities... if you cannot afford the comics, make a sacrifice somewhere else in your life so that you can afford them... if those sacrifices aren't available, then you must cut back on what you buy in spite the fact that you enjoy them... we live in lives of luxury, but it's up to you what luxuries you can afford... and it's not ok for you to take money outta these writers/artists pockets by downloading the books just because you feel like you're "entitled" to... it's just not right.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

So do you think that I shouldn't be able to still enjoy your work by downloading when I just can't afford it anymore? I want to buy the book, I want to own it and enjoy it, but money just isn't allowing it anymore.

Uh... no. Seriously, the whole consumer system says no. Comics are a luxury, ergo if you can't afford to buy them, you don't get to read them. There's nothing anywhere in the entire universe that guarantees you the "right" to read comics. Justifying downloading the comics because money doesn't allow you to purchase them makes no sense, really, because it's a privilege to read comics contingent on your ability to purchase them at the price the creators/publisher sets for them, same as any commercial product. The ease of pirating stuff lately has just skewed that model to the extent that people have come to consider pirating as a secondary means of getting things they believe they're entitled to if they can't pay for them.

Granted, if you're talking about downloading first and then purchasing the comic later, that's a different story. Money is still going from you to the people responsible for producing the comic, just on a delay. Realistically, you still shouldn't be able to read the comics until your finances actually permit you to (i.e. by having enough money to buy them), but I guess you could look at downloading comics as more of a jury-rigged credit system rather than pirating from that perspective.

 

[JewishHobbit]

At the end of the day, it's all about priorities... if you cannot afford the comics, make a sacrifice somewhere else in your life so that you can afford them... if those sacrifices aren't available, then you must cut back on what you buy in spite the fact that you enjoy them... we live in lives of luxury, but it's up to you what luxuries you can afford... and it's not ok for you to take money outta these writers/artists pockets by downloading the books just because you feel like you're "entitled" to... it's just not right.

Who said I was entitled? I want to know if Mr. Slott would prefer his fans to not read his book if they can't afford it. I understand if people are just downloading to download, but if there's been support from the fan that's stopped due to ongoing financial issues, does Mr. Slott not want the fan's continued support if he's not getting paid for it?

And that's not an attempt to jab at him, I'm wondering about Marvel and comic book creators in general. Mr. Slott's just the example since he's the one who actually shows up and mingles with us.

Granted, if you're talking about downloading first and then purchasing the comic later, that's a different story. Money is still going from you to the people responsible for producing the comic, just on a delay. Realistically, you still shouldn't be able to read the comics until your finances actually permit you to (i.e. by having enough money to buy them), but I guess you could look at downloading comics as more of a jury-rigged credit system rather than pirating from that perspective.

Oh I agree. I don't really plan on downloading anything unless I'm going to be buying it eventually. If I have to permanantly stop a book, I don't want to keep reading it or it may make me miss it more. Like I said earlier in the thread, I don't like digital comics, they feel fake. I like the floppies.

I was just making an inquiry about people who may actually want to continue reading a book they have to stop reading. Mighty Avengers being a good example due to my having to drop it without wanting to, and having supported it financially since issue 1. If I were to continue supporting the book by downloading it, would Mr. Slott want me to stop supporting him.

I wouldn't be helping him financially or in sales, but at least I'd still be able to support him through talking up the stories online and at the comic shop, promoting his title and work to others... hopefully help pick up a few extra readers here and there for him. But if I wasn't reading the book then I wouldn't be able to say it was good or bad. I can say I liked it 'back then' but really, what good is that going to do to get new readers reading the current stuff?

And for the record... I'm not discussing if it's illegal or not. It obviously is. I'm wondering if Mr. Slott... or Marvel in general... would prefer to keep a fan if it means downloading.

 

[katie_girl09]

I never download.

But that's only because I wouldn't know where to find free ones. Yes, yes. I know I'm a terrible person...

 

[Tron Bonne]

I'm pretty against downloading myself, so it may seem contradictory to say that I understand downloading something with plans to purchase it later. Like, not so long ago, I had the whole series of Cowboy Bebop downloaded on my computer, but then I eventually bought the series (plus, on top of that, I got the remastered re-releases, and I'll probably get the Blu-ray set whenever/if ever they are released in the States). Still, I had the whole series on my computer for quite awhile before eventually purchasing them.

Though, I suppose in my own defense, that's a pretty rare thing for me to do. And, unfortunately, I think that's far from the norm anyway when it comes to downloading and purchasing.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

So where can I download some comics? PM Me.

This is exactly what's not allowed.

At the end of the day, it's all about priorities... if you cannot afford the comics, make a sacrifice somewhere else in your life so that you can afford them... if those sacrifices aren't available, then you must cut back on what you buy in spite the fact that you enjoy them... we live in lives of luxury, but it's up to you what luxuries you can afford... and it's not ok for you to take money outta these writers/artists pockets by downloading the books just because you feel like you're "entitled" to... it's just not right.

So if I could only afford comics and food, I should cut back on food if I wanna read comics that badly.....when I could just d/l them? No sir. When people are hurtin for cash, the options are: a) don't buy them at all or b) "steal" it. In this case, the writers/artists aren't losing anything b/c if you didn't download it, you just wouldn't read it AT ALL. The people who download instead of buy just to horde their cash are the ones hurting the industry.

Who said I was entitled? I want to know if Mr. Slott would prefer his fans to not read his book if they can't afford it. I understand if people are just downloading to download, but if there's been support from the fan that's stopped due to ongoing financial issues, does Mr. Slott not want the fan's continued support if he's not getting paid for it?

 

[Spider-Jay420]

Who said I was entitled? I want to know if Mr. Slott would prefer his fans to not read his book if they can't afford it. I understand if people are just downloading to download, but if there's been support from the fan that's stopped due to ongoing financial issues, does Mr. Slott not want the fan's continued support if he's not getting paid for it?

And that's not an attempt to jab at him, I'm wondering about Marvel and comic book creators in general. Mr. Slott's just the example since he's the one who actually shows up and mingles with us.

I'm sure he wants you to read his stuff. But after reading his previous post about taking money out of creator's pockets, I'm sure he would prefer you actually, ya know, PAID for it.

 

[Themanofbat]

I want to know if Mr. Slott would prefer his fans to not read his book if they can't afford it. I understand if people are just downloading to download, but if there's been support from the fan that's stopped due to ongoing financial issues, does Mr. Slott not want the fan's continued support if he's not getting paid for it?

This is merely my opinion here, but I think if people are not purchasing his books, then Dan Slott (or any writer for that matter) is not really getting any fan "support" by downloading...



I'm such a luddite here... I feel really outta my league...

 

[Themanofbat]

So if I could only afford comics and food, I should cut back on food if I wanna read comics that badly.....when I could just d/l them? No sir. When people are hurtin for cash, the options are: a) don't buy them at all or b) "steal" it. In this case, the writers/artists aren't losing anything b/c if you didn't download it, you just wouldn't read it AT ALL. The people who download instead of buy just to horde their cash are the ones hurting the industry.

yes, but at what point do you draw the line?

If someone downloads comics because they can't afford to eat, then methinks that reading comics would fall a bit lower on the "life priority" list... but once that person starts downloading, who's to stay they'll stop when things are better financially?

 

[Tron Bonne]

This is merely my opinion here, but I think if people are not purchasing his books, then Dan Slott (or any writer for that matter) is not really getting any fan "support" by downloading...

Yeah, I think it really boils down that a writer/creator probably doesn't think of what you're doing as 'support' if you're downloading it. Sure, you're still reading it, but they've not seen anything from it, and won't until you purchase an actual copy or trade or whatever. I don't think you can really call that support as much as admiration

I guess you could say that you're still talking about it and getting people involved, but that's all theoretical 'What If's' and 'Maybe so's'.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

yes, but at what point do you draw the line?

If someone downloads comics because they can't afford to eat, then methinks that reading comics would fall a bit lower on the "life priority" list... but once that person starts downloading, who's to stay they'll stop when things are better financially?

If the person is so poor that the choice is between food and comics, then comics must really mean something to them. Everybody prefers to read the comic physically rather than electronically so I'd assume they'd go back to buying comics once their finances were in order again.

 

[Drz]

If the person is so poor that the choice is between food and comics, then comics must really mean something to them. Everybody prefers to read the comic physically rather than electronically so I'd assume they'd go back to buying comics once their finances were in order again.

And what if the person downloads the comic, decides it wasn't worth it and won't pay for it? Hmm?

 

[deathshead2]

JH when you say you download it and later buy it, do you buy the issue new or as a backissue for cheaper?

If its a backissue then you aren't helping Slott out. Just like I don't help any creator out when I buy there $4 comic for $1 a month later.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

And what if the person downloads the comic, decides it wasn't worth it and won't pay for it? Hmm?

Then that person saved some money. We should pay Marvel and DC for bad books now too?

 

[JewishHobbit]

JH when you say you download it and later buy it, do you buy the issue new or as a backissue for cheaper?

If its a backissue then you aren't helping Slott out. Just like I don't help any creator out when I buy there $4 comic for $1 a month later.

I typically buy it new if I'm able (my shop keeps the issues on the new shelf for about 3 months and they base their sales on that, so that's what I mean by new). I guess a better way of phrasing it is I try to buy it asap.

Though I will admit, for the first time... this week... I've decided to maybe download a couple comics and then buy it cheaper later due to the $5 price tags. I don't know if I'll do it or not, but the thought's occurred to me.

I'm sure he wants you to read his stuff. But after reading his previous post about taking money out of creator's pockets, I'm sure he would prefer you actually, ya know, PAID for it.

You're kinda missing the point here. What if the person CAN'T pay for it. If the money just isn't there and won't be any time in the forseeable future... but he still loves the series and creative team and WANTS to continue supporting them.

Word of mouth can be a powerful thing, but without the tool to put those words in your mouth it can never happen. Not to mention the moral support and the hopes of maintaining that fan who may fall away from the creative teams stuff later on if they lose interest now.

Yeah, I think it really boils down that a writer/creator probably doesn't think of what you're doing as 'support' if you're downloading it. Sure, you're still reading it, but they've not seen anything from it, and won't until you purchase an actual copy or trade or whatever. I don't think you can really call that support as much as admiration

I guess you could say that you're still talking about it and getting people involved, but that's all theoretical 'What If's' and 'Maybe so's'.

So money is the only method of support that should happen?

I think that's a big Marvel problem of late... money money money. It's understandable to a point because they are a buisness and that's a primary focus... but when you're money money money drives away loyal fanbase, that's an issue. And if creative teams do not want the support of fans who can't offer financial backing then that speaks volumes about modern day Marvel and what they think about us, the readers.

 

[Drz]

Then that person saved some money. We should pay Marvel and DC for bad books now too?

But you stole it. Let's say it's a comic _you_ personally didn't like, but generally its good by others... lets say a stubborn Batman fan who hates the new comics with Grayson as Batman, but just decides to download the comics but isn't supporting any of the comics.

 

[JewishHobbit]

How is that differant from skimming or reading them at the comic shop and deciding not to buy it?

 

[deathshead2]

You're kinda missing the point here. What if the person CAN'T pay for it. If the money just isn't there and won't be any time in the forseeable future... but he still loves the series and creative team and WANTS to continue supporting them.

Word of mouth can be a powerful thing, but without the tool to put those words in your mouth it can never happen. Not to mention the moral support and the hopes of maintaining that fan who may fall away from the creative teams stuff later on if they lose interest now.



So money is the only method of support that should happen?

I think that's a big Marvel problem of late... money money money. It's understandable to a point because they are a buisness and that's a primary focus... but when you're money money money drives away loyal fanbase, that's an issue. And if creative teams do not want the support of fans who can't offer financial backing then that speaks volumes about modern day Marvel and what they think about us, the readers.

Word of mouth is important but it only does so much.

Honestly I'm just going to say this. If, you really "loved" the hobby and wanted to "Support" it. You wouldn't just tell people to read the book to make up for the fact you can't afford it. Your just making excuses to make yourself feel better.

And I'm going to say your in insult to the industry. If I was a comic book writer and knew you liked my stuff I'd be super proud. If I knew you liked my stuff and were stealing. Honestly if you came up to me at a con and wanted me to sign something I would spit in your face. Your not helping anyone out by stealing even if your doing so to tell others to buy the book later on down the road at the comic shop. You shouldn't use those people as an excuse to keep doing what your doing.

Just quit downloading them, and trade wait. Damn, get over your "I bind my own book, I can't trade wait." Then buy the trade and rip out the pages and bind them yourself. At least then your supporting. Quit making excuses.

I'm going trough money problems. How would you feel if I went to whatever job you do and just took it without paying. Horrible I hope. Then more than likely you'd lose your job as I tell others hey you can just take it for free as long as you tell people how good it is.

 

[Drz]

How is that differant from skimming or reading them at the comic shop and deciding not to buy it?

Well i don't like that really either tbh.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Word of mouth is important but it only does so much.

Honestly I'm just going to say this. If, you really "loved" the hobby and wanted to "Support" it. You wouldn't just tell people to read the book to make up for the fact you can't afford it. Your just making excuses to make yourself feel better.

Than's an opinion. If I felt bad about doing it I wouldn't do it... and just to set it clear... again... I seldom download comics.

And I'm going to say you're an insult to the industry. If I was a comic book writer and knew you liked my stuff I'd be super proud. If I knew you liked my stuff and were stealing. Honestly if you came up to me at a con and wanted me to sign something I would spit in your face. Your not helping anyone out by stealing even if your doing so to tell others to buy the book later on down the road at the comic shop. You shouldn't use those people as an excuse to keep doing what your doing.

Again, it was an example for a scenerio. I actually dont' talk to anyone at my comic shop. It was a hypothetical scenerio about people who download. As I said just a few posts above, if I quit a title, I quit. If it's bad and I quit then I don't want to go and read new issues. If it's good and I have to quit then I don't want reminded of how much I loved it... for me, it's cold turkey or nothing. I dont' even look at them at the shop.

Just quit downloading them, and trade wait. Damn, get over your "I bind my own book, I can't trade wait." Then buy the trade and rip out the pages and bind them yourself. At least then your supporting. Quit making excuses.

What the heck does my binding hobby have anything to do with downloading? I can't bind what I'm downloading... well, I guess I could... but the cost of printing them and keeping the coloring consistant on good enough quality paper would cost more and defeat the purpose. Not to mention most binders I've worked with won't bind printed comic book pages unless you can prove you own the issue first.

And if I can't afford a $3 comic... you think I can somehow just whip out $20-$30 for a trade? It's not saving me any money... and if I remember correctly, aren't people losing a nickle on trades vs. floppies? I could be wrong on that, but I"m pretty sure I read it on here somewhere.

I'm going trough money problems. How would you feel if I went to whatever job you do and just took it without paying. Horrible I hope. Then more than likely you'd lose your job as I tell others hey you can just take it for free as long as you tell people how good it is.

Sure, if you want to come and take my dust mop from the janitor's closet go for it. Life will move on

But if you want to play on similar terms... I do have a comic book story coming to print in an anthology this spring, and no, I don't really care if someone downloads it. You want to know why? Because I put my heart into that story and the more people who read it the more honored I'll be. Granted, I'm not getting paid for it, but as someone who hopes to write stories for a living, I still don't really care.

 

[Tron Bonne]

So money is the only method of support that should happen?

I think that's a big Marvel problem of late... money money money. It's understandable to a point because they are a buisness and that's a primary focus... but when you're money money money drives away loyal fanbase, that's an issue. And if creative teams do not want the support of fans who can't offer financial backing then that speaks volumes about modern day Marvel and what they think about us, the readers.

I was just saying that I think you're stretching the word support a bit much. I mean, honestly, how are you supporting these writers/artists/creators by not paying for their material? Sitting on the sidelines and saying, 'You go, man, you go!'. I mean, that's nice, I'm sure that's flattering for them and all, but when they have bills to pay, mouths to feed, it'd probably seem a little hollow, don't you think?

And, yes, maybe you get some others on his field from the sidelines, but maybe you don't. It's all in the air as far as that is concerned.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not in support of this system by any means, but I still recognize how it works.