Why is downloading so taboo here?

Well, I wasn't aiming for deep and intellectual. I just wanted to get a dig in. You know how it is. :cwink:

I'm not lecturing to anyone. Again, if you wanna steal, go ahead. But don't have the attitude that you're entitled to what you're stealing.

I'd add you to my list of mortal enemies, but dangit, you have too cool a collection of action figures for me to do so.
 
You don't have an Enemybook? It's the new craze in social networking, how else am I supposed to know what my high school bully Chad McStephen was eating last Wednesday??
 
Anybody that downloaded and didn't buy issues of the Thing's ongoing played a role in it being canceled and therefore has a special place in comic book geek hell reserved for them where there's nothing to read but the Spider-Man clone saga, One More Day, Jeph Loeb's onslaught reborn, and they're forced to watch the Elektra movie and Batman and Robin 5 times a day.

I didn't even know Thing had an ongoing.
Maybe Marvels marketing should be to blame instead of illegal downloaders.
 
I can't bring myself to download films or anything of that nature. I do download all my music, but here's the way I look at it. I'm not big into music and don't even own a cd player... and I don't intend on buying another one. The music buisness isn't losing money on me because if I didn't downloaded... i wouldn't be buying it from the stores either. I download it to listen to it, but I don't care enough to actually buy it. So either way, they're not getting any money from me.

I only download comics that I want to buy but can't afford, and then I delete them once I get the money to buy them. I'll occassionally download something I don't have for a reference, but usually I'll then delete the issue when I learn what I need from it.

Honestly... I don't much care reading comics on the computer. I like the physical floppies in my hand and collection. Otherwise it's just kinda fake. It's not like I really have the issues when they're just on my computer. That's why I'll never support comics going digital. I'd likely quit comics the moment that happens.
You should use Pandora if you just listen to music. At least then they're getting paid for it thanks to an ad that pops up every once and a long time.
 
I didn't even know Thing had an ongoing.
Maybe Marvels marketing should be to blame instead of illegal downloaders.
What should be to blame is the fact it wasn't that good to start with. Ads were everywhere for that book, its the qulitiy that killed it.
 
What should be to blame is the fact it wasn't that good to start with. Ads were everywhere for that book, its the qulitiy that killed it.

I think a LOT of people around here would disagree with you...

Slott's Thing series was very good... it just had poor sales from the get-go...

:csad:
 
I only read the last issue with the big poker tournament and I loved it. I'll tell you what I'm curious about though, is that old Thing series from way back when... maybe the 80's? I've always been curious about that and I've found them for fairly cheap a few times. I just hate spending money on something if I don't know whether I'll like it or not.


Heh... maybe I should download them to test them out, and then buy them if I like the first few issues :)
 
I didn't even know Thing had an ongoing.
Maybe Marvels marketing should be to blame instead of illegal downloaders.

which is why I didn't blame JUST illegal downloaders. I said they played a part in it being canceled if they were downloading it and not buying it.
 
What should be to blame is the fact it wasn't that good to start with. Ads were everywhere for that book, its the qulitiy that killed it.

Wow I missed this post before.

I mean everyone has different tastes so.......actually nah **** that, what the **** wrong with you? Thing was awesome I say, AWESOME!!
 
I only read the last issue with the big poker tournament and I loved it. I'll tell you what I'm curious about though, is that old Thing series from way back when... maybe the 80's? I've always been curious about that and I've found them for fairly cheap a few times. I just hate spending money on something if I don't know whether I'll like it or not.


Heh... maybe I should download them to test them out, and then buy them if I like the first few issues :)

It was ok... by issue #12, Ben decides to saty on BattleWorld (or whereever they fought in Secret Wars), and he stays there for about 18 issues... I think She-Hulk took his place on the team in the regular FF book... by the time he came back to Earth, sales had plummetted to the point of cancelation by issue #36...

Typical fun 80's Marvel comic... I'd get the issues cheap if you really LIKE the Thing...

:yay:
 
Okay, reading this thread brought up a question in my mind:

*Is admitting that you download comics okay in the Hype, or can it be cause for a ban/warning? I know posting links to scans or openly admitting to PMing them is not allowed, but if someone asks you "Ooh where'd you get that" and you just say "Oh I just downloaded it", is there any way you could get in deep?

And I'm not asking about the people in this thread who admitted to downloading, it's for, um, my own safety.
 
Ask a moderator... though many of them vary in their methods of upholding the law...

:csad:
 
I was arguing with someone about this recently on another site. It eventually boiled down to this:

The poster knew that what they were doing was stealing.
They also knew that it was an illegal act.

Here's the "small print", just so you know:

Copyright is a form of legal protection provided by United States law (Title 17 U.S. Code) that protects an owner's right to control the reproduction, distribution, performance, display and transmission of a copyrighted work.

Any activity that violates these protections, such as downloading and/or sharing copyrighted works without the owner's explicit permission, is in violation of United States law.

Violations of copyright law can lead to criminal charges and civil penalties. Under current copyright law, criminal cases of copyright violation carry a penalty of up to five (5) years in prison and a $250,000 fine. Civil penalties for copyright infringement include a minimum fine of $750 for each work. While criminal prosecution for illegal downloading is rare, civil law suits are quite common for some institutions. (This is due to the NET Act, we'll get to that in a sec...)

Currently, these are what constitute copyrighted works under United States Law:

* Books, articles and other writings
* Songs and other musical works
* Movies and Television productions
* Pictures, graphics and drawings
* Computer software
* Pantomimes and choreographic works
* Sculptural and architectural works

(Yes, as crazy as it sounds, you can copyright pantomime and choreography. Though I doubt that would sound crazy to a hard working choreographer...)

The United States No Electronic Theft Act (NET Act), a federal law passed in 1997, provides for criminal prosecution of individuals who engage in copyright infringement, even when there is no monetary profit or commercial benefit from the infringement. Maximum penalties can be five years in prison and up to $250,000 in fines. The NET Act also raised statutory damages by 50%.

Prior to the enactment of the NET Act in 1997, copyright infringement for a non-commercial purpose was apparently not punishable by criminal prosecution, although non-commercial infringers could be sued in a civil action by the copyright holder to recover damages. At that time, criminal prosecutions under the copyright act were possible only when the infringer derived a commercial benefit from his or her actions. This state of affairs was underscored by the unsuccessful 1994 prosecution of David LaMacchia, then a student at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, for allegedly facilitating massive copyright infringement as a hobby, without any commercial motive. The court's dismissal of United States v. LaMacchia suggested that then-existing criminal law simply did not apply to non-commercial infringements (a state of affairs which became known as the "LaMacchia Loophole"). The court suggested that Congress could act to make some non-commercial infringements a crime, and Congress acted on that suggestion in the NET Act.

The NET Act amends the definition of "commercial advantage or private financial gain" to include the exchange of copies of copyrighted works even if no money changes hands and specifies penalties of up to five years in prison and up to $250,000 in fines. It also creates a threshold for criminal liability even where the infringer neither obtained nor expected to obtain anything of value for the infringement.

The act raised the levels of statutory damages in civil cases to $750 - $30,000 per work (and up to $150,000 per work in case of willful infringement).


So even though the poster knew it was an illegal act., he still didn't believe that he was "wrong" because, as far as he knows, it's not something that's enforced.

If, at the end of the day, that's your argument-- that you don't think you'll get caught-- then what you're saying is something along these lines:

It's okay to steal something from a person's house if they leave the door unlocked and no one sees you doing it.
 
Last edited:
For the sake of full disclosure:

A while back I took a very public and strict stance against illegally downloading entire comics over the internet.
While I was doing this-- I WAS downloading TWO types of media:
1) TV shows which were out of circulation and not available on DVD.
2) International TV shows and movies which were not available for sale on American region DVD players.

I did this with the knowledge that WHENEVER material I'd downloaded became available in the States, I IMMEDIATELY purchased those shows/movies/boxsets-- and I've got a wall full of the American releases of British and Japanese DVDs to back that up-- as well as boxsets of American shows that took awhile to be released.

While I was passionately arguing my case about comics-- it was pointed out to me that if I REALLY wanted to-- I could BUY a foreign region DVD player AND international DVDs when they came out in their respective markets-- I had no counter argument for that. THAT was a good point. I conceded and STOPPED downloading shows all together. That was a few years back and I've still stuck to it.

People's views can (and for a proper cause should) change. I hope that I can put forth arguments that convince some of you to that downloading affects myself and other creators-- and our potential FUTURE incomes.

While that's a concept that might seem intangible to some of you-- for comic book creators (not the highest paid jobs on the planet) it's a VERY real and deeply PERSONAL concern as we try to budget for ourselves and our family's expenses and quality of life. Whatever you may think about any creator's skill, talent, ability what-have-you-- we ARE people, this is our JOB, this is what brings us income, food, shelter, security, and helps us provide for our loved ones.

If you consume the product we've produced-- if you were compelled to experience the unit of entertainment we worked on-- and you read it ALL THE WAY to the last page-- we DID our job-- and it's my belief that we fulfilled our part of the understood contract between the storyteller and the audience. If the audience does an endrun on that pact by denying their patronage-- that's not very ethical. The fact that in some cases it's EASY to skip that step does not mean that it's RIGHT or that it's an ENTITLEMENT.

Comics are fun. To the audience they're not a necessity-- like food or clothing. But for creators, it DOES provide those things-- and the promise of FUTURE food and clothing-- when the audience HONORS their part of that contract.

That said, I am not approaching this subject with a my-way-or-the-highway attitude. I DO understand that there are mitigating factors in some cases. I have a world of sympathy for that fan in the middle of a foreign country with no LCS for hundreds of miles-- and practically no access to ANY U.S. comics. And I understand the validity of certain circumstances here and there. But I see no excuse for (and I'm going to be VERY specific here) someone who lives in a country where comics are available but who HABITUALLY downloads a title issue after issue-- month after month-- who reads it cover to cover-- and who has no intention of buying it. That specific person is robbing creators of a "vote."

Those "votes" determine what projects we are offered in the future. Those "votes" determine our worth to the company-- and are taken to account when our page rates go up for review. I can tell you PERSONALLY that my quality of life would be DRASTICALLY altered by the simple math if-- at my next rate review-- Marvel saw fit to give me a raise of even $5 a page-- and EVEN more if Marvel were to give me a raise of $10 or even $15 a page. I can't even begin to tell you how that would affect my annual budget and how and where I could live, putting away for my future, etc. Those "votes" also determine what pencilers, inkers, colorists, etc. that I get to work with. In the case of smaller niche titles like SHE-HULK and THE THING, those "votes" determine the longevity of the project. Those "votes" affect MY life and other CREATORS' lives in SO many ways that it's not even funny.

That's what this subject means to me.
 
Last edited:
Right on, DS. Make sure you pass on to your bosses that there are fans out here who would LOVE to pay to download comics, old and new. (Marry it to some kind of eReader, and I'll die happy.)

And seriously, infringement on a mime's copyright? That's wrong on so many levels that I don't even know where to begin.
 
For the sake of full disclosure:

A while back I took a very public and strict stance against illegally downloading entire comics over the internet.
While I was doing this-- I WAS downloading TWO types of media:
1) TV shows which were out of circulation and not available on DVD.
2) International TV shows and movies which were not available for sale on American region DVD players.

I did this with the knowledge that WHENEVER material I'd downloaded became available in the States, I IMMEDIATELY purchased those shows/movies/boxsets-- and I've got a wall full of the American releases of British and Japanese DVDs to back that up-- as well as boxsets of American shows that took awhile to be released.

While I was passionately arguing my case about comics-- it was pointed out to me that if I REALLY wanted to-- I could BUY a foreign region DVD player AND international DVDs when they came out in their respective markets-- I had no counter argument for that. THAT was a good point. I conceded and STOPPED downloading shows all together. That was a few years back and I've still stuck to it.

People's views can (and for a proper cause should) change. I hope that I can put forth arguments that convince some of you to that downloading affects myself and other creators-- and our potential FUTURE incomes.

While that's a concept that might seem intangible to some of you-- for comic book creators (not the highest paid jobs on the planet) it's a VERY real and deeply PERSONAL concern as we try to budget for ourselves and our family's expenses and quality of life. Whatever you may think about any creator's skill, talent, ability what-have-you-- we ARE people, this is our JOB, this is what brings us income, food, shelter, security, and helps us provide for our loved ones.

If you consume the product we've produced-- if you were compelled to experience the unit of entertainment we worked on-- and you read it ALL THE WAY to the last page-- we DID our job-- and it's my belief that we fulfilled our part of the understood contract between the storyteller and the audience. If the audience does an endrun on that pact by denying their patronage-- that's not very ethical. The fact that in some cases it's EASY to skip that step does not mean that it's RIGHT or that it's an ENTITLEMENT.

Comics are fun. To the audience they're not a necessity-- like food or clothing. But for creators, it DOES provide those things-- and the promise of FUTURE food and clothing-- when the audience HONORS their part of that contract.

That said, I am not approaching this subject with a my-way-or-the-highway attitude. I DO understand that there are mitigating factors in some cases. I have a world of sympathy for that fan in the middle of a foreign country with no LCS for hundreds of miles-- and practically no access to ANY U.S. comics. And I understand the validity of certain circumstances here and there. But I see no excuse for (and I'm going to be VERY specific here) someone who lives in a country where comics are available but who HABITUALLY downloads a title issue after issue-- month after month-- who reads it cover to cover-- and who has no intention of buying it. That specific person is a robbing creators of a "vote."

Those "votes" determine what projects we are offered in the future. Those "votes" determine our worth to the company-- and are taken to account when our page rates go up for review. I can tell you PERSONALLY that my quality of life would be DRASTICALLY altered by the simple math of-- at my next rate review-- Marvel saw fit to give me a raise of even $5 a page-- and EVEN more if Marvel were to give me a raise of $10 or even $15 a page. I can't even begin to tell you how that would affect my annual budget and how and where I could live, putting away for my future, etc. Those "votes" also determine what pencilers, inkers, colorists, etc. that I get to work with. In the case of smaller niche titles like SHE-HULK and THE THING, those "votes" determine the longevity of the project. Those "votes" affect MY life and other CREATORS' lives in SO many ways that it's not even funny.

That's what this subject means to me.

A very compelling argument (logically and emotionally). While I usually disagree with you on these boards, in this case I commend you. Well put. Consider me persuaded.
 
When I first found out about downloading, whether it's music or comics, I went crazy! But, then I kind of stopped. For music, if I like it, I buy the CD. (I also found out the sound quality is different to me.) For the comics, it was great to have a resource like that where I can look up something...but, I simply hated reading a comic on the computer. (I also have no interest in getting a Nook or any other book reader.) I like having a comic or book in my hand. I like sitting in my favorite chair, not having the glare of a screen to interrupt me. Heck, I love going to bed, reading a couple comics, and then slowly dozing off with thoughts of superheroes in my head. (NO, I'm not dreaming of men in tights!!!!)

The only exception is I will download music if it's not available for me in CD. I did that with J. Geils Band's "You're Getting Even While I'm Getting Odd." You can't find that anywhere, but I found it in a J. Geils Band Complete Works download. Like Dan Slott previously, if I could have gotten it legally, I would have. But, those occassions are few and far between. I never download comics anymore. (Of course, most of the cool sites have since gone away. The big companies sent them a "cease and desist" letter, especially right after Marvel decided to offer comics on their own site.)
 


If, at the end of the day, that's your argument-- that you don't think you'll get caught-- then what you're saying is something along these lines:

It's okay to steal something from a person's house if they leave the door unlocked and no one sees you doing it.


Well....yeah. :awesome:
 
Those "votes" determine what projects we are offered in the future. Those "votes" determine our worth to the company-- and are taken to account when our page rates go up for review.

I understand what you are saying with this voting theory.
But since it is impossible to judge the quality of a comic, movie, etc. before purchasing said product, how could one value the worth of one vote?
Say a book or movie sells extremely well, but it was poorly received? Would the book or movie still be regarded as a success? Does higher sales solely determine the projects that come out in the future?

This post in no way should be taken into regard to my opinions on the downloading/stealing debate. I just want to make a point about how sales and viewer enjoyment can be two completely different things.
 
Please avoid posting responses like "We'll who cares, if it's selling well that all that really matters."
Because I think that is why we get such **** Hollywood movies now-a-days.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"