Why is MAX inferior to Vertigo?

[Nasty-B]

Why is it that Marvel doesn't seem to be able to put together a mature line that is on par with Vertigo? I mean, sure, I loves me some Punisher Max- it's quite possibly my favorite title rght now- but the meager 2 or three other MAX titles haven't really impressed me. Not to mentioned that most of the titles from MAX's initial launch were very short lived. My theory is that it's because Marvel insists on using MAX as a venue for extra violent and sexy iterations of their pre-existing superhero titles. Is Quesada scared of publishing non-superhero, high quality titles like Preacher, Y: the Last Man, DMZ, the Exterminators, Outlaw Nation, etc...? If DC can branch out of the world of super heroics, why can't Marvel?

 

[The_Mystery]

They should just take the ICON imprint and merge it with the MAX imprint. Then offer all their hired writers the opportunity to come up with creator-owned work and then find talented newcomers to team up with the vetern all-stars and produce innovative work.

If you steal my idea Marvel, I want royalties

 

[The Question]

The real problem is just that MAX is much newer than Vertigo, and doesn't have a flagship title like Sandman to give it a boost. The lack of non established characters and non continuity stories isn't really an issue, since the Icon imprint really fills that quota. Both imprints just need more atention given to them and mpre ongoings. MAX has The Punisher, and then just a bunch of minis. Icon only has one real title now. They just need a crative boost, is all.

 

[Nasty-B]

Oh yeah, I forgot about Icon and Powers. I agree, they should merge the two. Icon just seems like it exists in order to give BMB his own little private playground.

 

[The Question]

I don't really see a need to merge the two. I just think both need a major creative push.

 

[Darthphere]

Marvel is a lot more timid about allowing creato owned projects to be ok'd. I saw somehwere a list of projects Marvel had turned down and there was some interesting stuff in that.

 

[Nasty-B]

Are they a bunch of control freaks, or what?

 

[Ben Urich]

MAX books seem to exist solely to curse and show ****, whereas the Vertigo books have an actual, you know, story.

 

[The Question]

Marvel is a lot more timid about allowing creato owned projects to be ok'd. I saw somehwere a list of projects Marvel had turned down and there was some interesting stuff in that.

Like what?

 

[Anubis]

The Icon Imprint is really the one that could possibly be Marvel's Vertigo. I mean look at what you got already. Powers, which has always been critically acclaimed and, lets face it, it's BMB's best book. It's the reason for all the hype. You also got Brubaker's Criminal, which has just started, and is really good. There's plenty of talent at Marvel that they could offer a book to. I really liked that Dream Police One Shot JMS did for the Icon imprint last year. I'd love for that to be an ongoing. They have Brian K Vaughn, for Christ sakes on a number of they're books. The man who is currently kicking ass with his Vertigo and Wildstorm books. Why haven't they just hooked him up with an artist and told him to do whatever the hell he wants?

It's new, and given time, the Icon imprint could really start to take off. Just gotta be patient. The thing the folks at Marvel have to realize is that, these books are never gonna sell all that well. This is the work that elevates comics to an art form. Lets face it, the average comic buyer, is an idiot who only wants to see Wolverine in every book. Or Hulk Smashing something. This sorta thing isn't for them. Once they accept that they aren't gonna make a lot of cash off these books, and just do it for the art, then maybe we can get some competition between the two. Which would ultimately be a good thing for all of us actually reading.

 

[The Question]

The same should go for MAX. I mean, Vertigo has more than a few in continuity titles. Really, I see MAX and Icon as taking the Vertigo concept and deviding the two main functions of it into their own things.

 

[Darthphere]

Like what?

I know they passed up on The Other Side.

 

[The Question]

I know they passed up on The Other Side.

Which is?

 

[gildea]

Simple answer max isn't a creator ownership imprint its for adult marvel properties which few creators are interested in doing (relatively). Icon is for creator ownership but is very very guarded and is currently only there to keep bendis and brubaker happy.

 

[The Question]

Well, Vertigo isn't necessairily creator owned. Sandman and Hellblazer are both owned by Time Warner. It's just that the creators get very nice royalties, and at least in the case of Sandman, they give the creator complete creative control to keep him happy so he'd be willing to come back and write for them again.

 

[Nasty-B]

Okay, I guess I should change the thread to "why are Max/Icon inferior to Vertigo?"

 

[Dangerous]

Baracuda should be good.
Shame its not gonna be ongoing, I would buy that.
Also a Deathlok comic would be nice.

 

[Anubis]

Which is?

This kickass Vietnam book that is currently being published elsewhere.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I think MAX just needs more ongoings to increase it's prevalance and should interact more with the main Marvel Universe. Along with the Punisher, Wolverine, Blade, Deathlok, and Daredevil should have their titles moved to the MAX line. Other cool MAX titles would be Black Widow, Luke Cage, and Spider-Man MAX (because Spider-Man needs a title in everyone of Marvel's lines).

 

[The Question]

This kickass Vietnam book that is currently being published elsewhere.

Ah. I should look into that.


Anyway, here's my feeling for MAX and Icon: Start accepting pitches. People have good ideas for origional stuff and for new takes on established characters that wouldn't work in the mainstream. Just listen to 'em.

 

[The_Mystery]

The MAX titles do seem like an excuse to make Cap curse or to show MJ's breasts and that in-itself is the problem. I think most people see the flimsiness of the line. The answer really is to bury the line, and move the "best" projects over to ICON. The ICON imprint doesn't necessarily have to be creator-owned, just be works that are different than the standard spandex and super-powers that Marvel publishes.

 

[Max J Power]

Vertigo is already so far ahead of Icon in amount of content that Icon will probably never catch up. MAX is like Marvel's regular comics, but more violent and with more adult themes. I'm not condescending MAX, I'm just saying that it's not the type of thing that would compete with Vertigo.

 

[Elijya]

They should just take the ICON imprint and merge it with the MAX imprint. Then offer all their hired writers the opportunity to come up with creator-owned work and then find talented newcomers to team up with the vetern all-stars and produce innovative work.

If you steal my idea Marvel, I want royalties

but they're two compeltely differently themed lines: Icon is creator owned, MAX is still Marvel owned but allows mature content

 

[gildea]

What they really should do is simply expand Icon.

 

[Darthphere]

Supreme Power should have never left MAX.