Why is the Red Skull considered Cap's archnemesis?

[The Overlord]

Good god, this is idiotic. You realize Zemo wasnt even a Cap character until 1968 right? Red Skull has been fighting Cap since the 40's. It doesnt matter how many evil things Zemo has done to Cap, Red Skull is a consistent and long standing foe for Cap, and he will always be his arch nemesis.

Doc Ock has had a longer rivalary with Spidey then Gobby has (Gobby was dead for 20 years), yet Gobby is considered his archnemesis. Now I'm not trying to be silly, just controversial .

 

[Kitsune]

Doc Ock has had a longer rivalary with Spidey then Gobby has (Gobby was dead for 20 years), yet Gobby is considered his archnemesis. Now I'm not trying to be silly, just contraversal.

Goby killed Gwen Stacy... so far as I know she is still dead.

 

[Darthphere]

Doc Ock has had a longer rivalary with Spidey then Gobby has (Gobby was dead for 20 years), yet Gobby is considered his archnemesis. Now I'm not trying to be silly, just contraversal.

And im trying to help you with spelling: "controversial"

 

[The Overlord]

Ah, Bucky isn't dead.... <sigh>

Yeah but he's an evil psychotic assassin now, how is that better for Cap's psyche? Baron Zemo's actions are more or less what resulted in Bucky being in his current state.

 

[The Overlord]

And im trying to help you with spelling: "controversial"

Thanks, here's a gift:

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/grammarian.htm

 

[Darthphere]

Yeah but he's an evil psychotic assassin now how is that better for Cap's psyche? Baron Zemo's actions are more or less what resulted in Bucky being in his current state.

Not anymore.

 

[Darthphere]

Thanks, here's a gift:

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/grammarian.htm

Please, im insulted, use something original.

 

[The Overlord]

Goby killed Gwen Stacy... so far as I know she is still dead.

So if Gwen came from the dead as evil assassin, Doc Ock would be the archnemesis?

 

[roach]

So if Gwen came from the dead as evil assassin, Doc Ock would be the archnemesis?

you just spoiled JQ's big idea for next years Spider-man crossover

 

[el brujo138]

So the title of this thread is Why is the Red Skull considered Cap's archnemesis? And when people try to answer why he is The Overlord just turns a deaf ear and says so what to all the explanations being given as to why Red Skull is Cap's archnemesis.

Did you (Overlord) make a thread just to state that Red Skull as Cap's archnemesis sucks and that Zemo would be a better choice for that role or are you actually willing to listen as to why Red Skull is considered Cap's archnemesis? I guess what I'm asking is: is this a whine/hate fest or do you actually want to learn something and try to take in new perspectives? Because if the latter is the case then saying so what seems kind of dense. On the other hand if this thread is just about whinning about Zemo not getting the credit he deserves (in your point of view) then carry on.

 

[Cyclops]

So if Gwen came from the dead as evil assassin, Doc Ock would be the archnemesis?

No, stupid.

Shocker would.

 

[The Overlord]

Not anymore.

Alright I guess that's fair, since Zemo's evil has been retconned, the Red Skull is undisputed archnemsis of captain America. I still think the Skull can should improve his feats, I mean he was lagging behind a dead guy in terms of personal damage against scored against Cap for 40 years, he should try to do better than that.

 

[The Overlord]

So the title of this thread is Why is the Red Skull considered Cap's archnemesis? And when people try to answer why he is The Overlord just turns a deaf ear and says so what to all the explanations being given as to why Red Skull is Cap's archnemesis.

Did you (Overlord) make a thread just to state that Red Skull as Cap's archnemesis sucks and that Zemo would be a better choice for that role or are you actually willing to listen as to why Red Skull is considered Cap's archnemesis? I guess what I'm asking is: is this a whine/hate fest or do you actually want to learn something and try to take in new perspectives? Because if the latter is the case then saying so what seems kind of dense. On the other hand if this thread is just about whinning about Zemo not getting the credit he deserves (in your point of view) then carry on.

No I'm just curious as to how one defines someone's archnemesis, is it the longest serving villain, the villain who scores the most personal damage on the hero or the villainis the popular opposite of the hero? I am merely putting forth something controversial so that I can here differing opinions on why it is wrong, consider me playing devil adcovate here. Why is it some cases the villain who scores the personal damage is considered the archnemesis, yet in other cases that is irrelevant compared to which villain is the polar opposite or which villain has been around the longest? Exactly what makes an archnemesis, an archnemesis?

 

[Marcdachamp]

This is Marvel, no one is dead.

Seriously if Baron Heinrich Zemo came back from the dead, would the Red Skull still be Cap's archnemesis?

The current Zemo's better anyway. Bringing the original back would be stupid.

 

[The Overlord]

The current Zemo's better anyway. Bringing the original back would be stupid.

Well duh, but just because something is stupid doesn't mean Marvel won't do it. Brining back Heinrich would be a really bad idea.

 

[captainrogers]

So, using the logic being presented here... who would be Superman's greatest archnemesis....Lex Luthor or Doomsday?
Doomsday killed Supes....
Luthor's been trying for years, but no cigar.
I'm of the opinion that the Lex is Superman's main archnemesis.
I see what The Overlord is saying. But Red Skull always fits the bill to me when it comes to Cap.

 

[Marcdachamp]

So, using the logic being presented here... who would be Superman's greatest archnemesis....Lex Luthor or Doomsday?
Doomsday killed Supes....
Luthor's been trying for years, but no cigar.
I'm of the opinion that the Lex is Superman's main archnemesis.
I see what The Overlord is saying. But Red Skull always fits the bill to me when it comes to Cap.

That quote in your sig is awesome.

 

[Varient]

LOL @ this thread.

(the back and forth,... not the content)

 

[Paloogin]

The fact that he has killed this person or that person has no bearing on it. He is his arch enemy because his battles with Cap are some of the main stories that established the Captain America character as a super-hero. Generic thug kills Uncle Ben, he isn't Spidey's arch enemy, same with Joe Chill and Batman. It's all in the early battles between the two and the fan reactions to said battles, in my humble opinion.

Wow, I think I just made a point. Cool!

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

This may seem like a silly question, but why is the Red Skull considered Cap's archnemesis? Baron Hienrich Zemo has done far more to hurt Cap than the Skull has. Who killed Bucky? Heinrich Zemo. Who trapped Cap in ice for several decades? Heinrich Zemo. What the heck has Red Skull done to Cap?

Heck Helmut Zemo has done more to hurt Cap than the Skull. Helmut has the one who distroyed Cap's most treasured possessions in the Seige of the Avengers Mansion storyline (the only remaining picture of his mother, his original shield, etc). What personal damage has the Skull done to Cap that outweighs what the two Barons of Zemo have done to him?

The Red Skull`s very appearence was evil,as all he stood for was evil.You may have put down some very strong facts,but The Red Skull represented evil,and Captian America represented virtue.

 

[The Overlord]

So, using the logic being presented here... who would be Superman's greatest archnemesis....Lex Luthor or Doomsday?
Doomsday killed Supes....
Luthor's been trying for years, but no cigar.
I'm of the opinion that the Lex is Superman's main archnemesis.
I see what The Overlord is saying. But Red Skull always fits the bill to me when it comes to Cap.

You make a good point. Lex is clearly more an archnemesis than Doomsday. I guess standards for what makes an archnemesis does change from hero to hero. But that begs the question, are there universal standards for determining an arch nemesis?

 

[Spade]

I'll put my opinion this way- if there was a movie on Captain America, Zemo wouldn't even be considered until a sequel. Why? The Red Skull is symbiotically connected to the Cap mythos; however little he's done in comparison is not the point. The point is that when most people think 'Cap' the nemesis is 'the Red Skull'. As Darthphere and others have pointed out, RS has been around for a longer duration and as such has become the much more easily recognized face in Cap-related comics. He may not have as drastic an impact, but then again there are quite a few villains in comic books in general who carry much more gravity sheerly with inaction or a quick appearance than others.

 

[CBK]

does it even matter who's Captain America's enemy is? The Red skull failed so many times its not even funny. every time i read the red skull in the current cap comics i just ignore it. because hes not even that feared by anyone in the marvel u. hes going to fail with nothing really happen to captain america and we'll just move on to the next issue. plus im sure that batroc the leaper has fought captain america more then anyone. I'm talking about actual fighting not sending ppl to fight for you.

 

[Red Mask]

The Red Skull is a threat because his ambitions perpetuate the spread of fear and hatred in the free world. He's inspired guys like Cross Bones, who truly believe in facism.

 

[The Question]

I'll put my opinion this way- if there was a movie on Captain America, Zemo wouldn't even be considered until a sequel. Why? The Red Skull is symbiotically connected to the Cap mythos; however little he's done in comparison is not the point. The point is that when most people think 'Cap' the nemesis is 'the Red Skull'. As Darthphere and others have pointed out, RS has been around for a longer duration and as such has become the much more easily recognized face in Cap-related comics. He may not have as drastic an impact, but then again there are quite a few villains in comic books in general who carry much more gravity sheerly with inaction or a quick appearance than others.

Also, The Red Skull has made a massive impact. He infiltraited the United States government at it's highest levels and initiated a terrorist atack from within that killed thousands. Was it personal? No. But I'm certain that Cap felt responsible for every body on the pile.