Why is this movie disliked?

[SolidSnakeMGS]

I find this funny:

What do do you know about how much backbone Tim Story showed to the studio? Were you there?

and in the same post:

Do you really think Story, a lifelong FF fan, was happy to see one of the the greatest villains of all time completely ruined by the studio's choices?

You assume Tim Story was in a situation where he could effectively influence the very wrong direction the studio was taking with so many aspects of this film. That's enormously naive, given the extensive and ruinous meddling Fox is reknowned for.

Kinda hypocritical that you're criticizing someone for putting themselves in Story's head when you're doing the exact same thing.

Yes, Fox is to blame, but so is Story. He's a subpar director. He did Taxi for chrissakes!

 

[Malus]

Kinda hypocritical that you're criticizing someone for putting themselves in Story's head when you're doing the exact same thing.

Yes, Fox is to blame, but so is Story. He's a subpar director. He did Taxi for chrissakes!

He also did a little thing called BARBERSHOP which apparently so few of the Story-bashers have seen. 9 out of 10 times it's brought up, there's no response...because they haven't seen it.
Oh but TAXI ...that they've seen. Wonder why?

The critically-acclaimed Barbershop is what got Story the FF gig in the first place. TAXI was a studio star vehicle for Jimmy Fallon and Queen Latifah that was written and into pre-production before Story was brought on. Kinda like the first FF.

And exactly how was I "putting myself in Story's head?" Please explain. I just re-read my supposedly "hypocritical" post and I see no place where I was "putting myself in his head." I was just stating facts and pointing out to yet another Story-basher that the buck doesn't necessarily stop with the director.
Because it kinda ticks me off to see someone presuming to question Tim Story's backbone for God's sake.

Story was an FF fan long before he got the job and Story is on record as being unhappy with the way Doom turned out in FF1.
And it's fairly well-known that he fought for Doom's iron mask and the cape when the studio was ready to go with a maskless Doom.

Asking someone making such a ridiculous statement ("Story showed no backbone") if they were there and then reitterating some facts about the production was entirely appropriate.
How you get from there to accusing me of putting myself in Story's head is equally ridiculous.

 

[SolidSnakeMGS]

Wow, Barbershop and Taxi. Riiiiiiight! He's the perfect man for the job of directing a big scale comic book movie adaptation. I guess you fail to see the problem with your argument about Barbershop.

You jump on someone because someone accused Story of having no backbone, YET you assume Story didn't like how the studio handled Dr. Doom. Your response to the poster you jumped on -- "Were you there?" -- could easily be thrown right back at you. I guess its ok to be in the director's head as long as you're trying to be positive, right? And then you assume Story had no power or influence, as if none of the fiasco know as FF was his fault. Again, were you there to confirm your claims?

 

[Malus]

Wow, Barbershop and Taxi. Riiiiiiight! He's the perfect man for the job of directing a big scale comic book movie adaptation. I guess you fail to see the problem with your argument about Barbershop.

Yeah, because I don't think there is a problem. Barbershop was critically hailed extensively because of Story's excellent direction of the film's ensemble cast. That's what critic after critic wrote, and the quality of that directing job is what kept Story from being a wash-out after Taxi.

Story didn't have any big action pictures under his belt before being tapped for FF, so I can see why some would have been concerned. Maybe that's part of what went wrong. But my personal gut feeling is that it had a lot more to do with the mediocre script, unimaginative production design and muck-it-up mandates from Fox.
Hey, maybe it was all Story's fault. Maybe Fox made a huge mistake by keeping him on board for FF2. Maybe he is a "sub-par" director.
I guess we'll find out June 15th, won't we?

You jump on someone because someone accused Story of having no backbone, YET you assume Story didn't like how the studio handled Dr. Doom. Your response to the poster you jumped on -- "Were you there?" -- could easily be thrown right back at you. I guess its ok to be in the director's head as long as you're trying to be positive, right? And then you assume Story had no power or influence, as if none of the fiasco know as FF was his fault. Again, were you there to confirm your claims?

NO, I don't "assume" Story didn't like how the studio handled Doom. I know Story wasn't satisfied with it, because he's said so repeatedly.
I don't have to have been present at the filming to simply take the man at his word.
And Story fighting for Doom's mask is a matter of record. Plenty of people (including Story & Julian McMahon) have reported this. So I didn't have to have been there to be privvy to this information either.

But for someone to proclaim that the man has "no backbone" - that requires some backing up. That falls under "personal attack" and should be subject to some burden of proof.
Thus "Were you there?" is an entirely appropriate question.
I'm not claiming any special insight about Tim Story or the production of FF1. I've only stated facts.

I've never said Story is exempt from blame. Only that he's not entirely responsible. There's a big difference. But it's a difference that some can't seem to comprehend.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

Y'know, watching you guys bicker is like seeing two sides of a spinning coin, each trying to best the other. Keep it up, and people will start dubbing you both "Two-Face".

 

[Malus]

Y'know, watching you guys bicker is like seeing two sides of a spinning coin, each trying to best the other. Keep it up, and people will start dubbing you both "Two-Face".

Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm done here.
Debating the merits of directors -especially when it comes to genre films, and most especially on the internet- is an exercise in futility as far as I'm concerned. And all that is really incidental to what I was objecting to in the first place.

 

[Geko]

This is from Tim Story's MySpace Blog
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...yToken=8713f295-c177-49e8-a8d9-7357f3bcd04dML

Friday, July 21, 2006


Just checking in
Current mood: hyper

Okay, it's been a minute and I had to reach out. I know most of you are probably at comicon as I type this. I'm bummed out that I couldn't be there but I spoke with Kevin Feige today, who's attending, and he had great things to say about the excitment out there and the anticipation for, not just the FF sequel but all the Marvel product coming to a theater near you.

I am busy working away at all the concept art and most recently the design for Doom. I saw the maquette today of what the improved Doom will look like and he's everything I 've wanted him to be. Many have stated their disappointment with the lack of "evil" ness in the last movie and I'd be lying if I said I was able to do everything I set out to do, but this time, there will be the plotting and the fighting and technology. He's just as smart as Reed, or as he would say, smarter and I'm going to represent that in the movie big time. Julian is on board and wants to have just as much fun in making him "that villian" we all know and love, or should I say hate. I'm wrestling right now with the cape issue and trying to have it but not let it get in the way of him fighting. He's not going to just shoot beams of power this time. He goes toe to toe with a really big surprise.

My 2nd Unit director Ej Forrester was showing me storyboards on a sequence we have in the movie that involves Doom, and we're determined to have him blowing up ****! Wait until you see the mask! The armor!

 

[TripleF]

Yeah, theres a whole thread for these on the F4 2 forum.

 

[TripleF]

Y'know, watching you guys bicker is like seeing two sides of a spinning coin, each trying to best the other. Keep it up, and people will start dubbing you both "Two-Face".

No, actually I see someone that needs to spend more time on an actual forum of a movie they enjoyed, rather than trolling on one they didn't. Hmmmmmm, guess which one I'm thinking of.

Check the history, you'll get the jest.


And YEP, Malus debating Trolls is a waste of your time. They simply drain the life out of forums when left untouched for a period of time.

 

[K.B.]

Are you talking about me?
Cuz you'd be wrong. While I dont doubt there are peopel who go on boards just to be a----les, I think boards jus tpraising a movie is stupid. You can have a thread where you can praise it but a whole board? Thats ridiculouse. You should be able to hear both sides good and bad on a movie.
And you do realize that this thread is calel "Why is this movie disliked"? So obviously folks on here will be bashing it,so why go in here if you don't wanna read it?

 

[TripleF]

Are you talking about me?
Cuz you'd be wrong. While I dont doubt there are peopel who go on boards just to be a----les, I think boards jus tpraising a movie is stupid. You can have a thread where you can praise it but a whole board? Thats ridiculouse. You should be able to hear both sides good and bad on a movie.
And you do realize that this thread is calel "Why is this movie disliked"? So obviously folks on here will be bashing it,so why go in here if you don't wanna read it?

No. But its funny that you would think I was. Kind of like, "hey stupid" and 5 guys turn around.

 

[GreenKToo]

I know its wrong,but plenty of folks go to other forums just to bash that character or film,(S.R. comes to mind)while I wont stoop to that level,..(I like all C.B. films)..plenty will be here to bash the sequel to F42 if it does poorly....anyway,I liked F4,and I hope the sequel does well..

 

[Mike059jig]

I think it had everything going for it to become a great movie.....parts needed to be stretched out more....some of the acting was a little off much to Invisible woman and Reed...johnny storm I thought was done well....Doom's character with what time was given to him to develop was cool....I never read a fantatic four comic..but did this movie deviate from the comics???

I think of all the comic book movie cept {Spidey,Bats}..go the character origin right....ben grimm and Johnny I thought were done great!!!.....the movie was just had bad acting,casting,and director....

at least its getting a sequel...maybe people might forgive the first movie

 

[Valerie_f4]

I have no complaints about this movie. But I haope they add more dynamic to the group, I mean they are family.

 

[CandyBarr1993]

I very much disliked the movie.... it had no class to it. It was all corny mumbo jumbo like in those 50 Christmas movies where kids learn a lesson, what christmas is all about! The human torch was stabbed in the back, the thing... not bad, invisible girl, not to shabby, and Mr.Incredible was pretty cheesy. But hey thats me.

 

[Valerie_f4]

What do you mean the human torch was stabbed in the back?

 

[CandyBarr1993]

They ruined his character and made him like some dumb, careless college boy. Ive read one of their comics

 

[Valerie_f4]

Hmm, WEll hopefully they add something to these characters.

 

[MOIDANGEREUX]

It’s a weird time for on screen heroes. Hollywood and the pimple on its ass that is my brethren in the critical community have become obsessed with making heroes gritty, realistic, human, and by extension much less heroic. Batman is being shot with shaky-cams and put in real-life situations. James Bond has been turned into a grinning thug. No one’s interested in seeing someone who always gets things right. Bright, hopeful, and heroic, Superman Returns made just as much money as Batman Begins, but is continually labeled a failure as the press drools all over Batman. Casino Royale had a weaker opening weekend than previous, more fantasy oriented Bond movies, but is still talked about as if it’s somehow more successful. Peter Parker makes billions peddling red and blue angst. If you think that’s all anyone wants, you’re walking around in a fantasy land.

Gritty, dark heroes are fine, but there’s nothing wrong with a little fun every now and then. Look no further than the success of the Fantastic Four for proof. Tim Story’s fun, brightly colored, cartoony superhero movie opened to a critical crushing and received nothing but a kick to the curb by press and pundits alike. Oh it’s not cool to like Fantastic Four, but audiences turned up anyway and had one helluva time.

Look, there’s room for both types of movies in the world. The anti-hero has been done to death, let’s give lighthearted fantasy a chance. Audiences are hungry for it; it’s time critics, nerds, and the rest caught up. They’ll get a chance when the Four returns for Rise of the Silver Surfer.

If anything, Rise of the Silver Surfer looks to be skewing even closer than ever to that cartoony edge. After all, they’re bringing in a bad guy who rides an interstellar surfboard. Despite his tortured origins, there’s just no way to make Silver Surfer gritty. Nor should they. That’s not what we’re looking for from Fantastic Four. Peter Parker can have his angst and Batman can revel in darkness. The Fantastic Four will ride around in a four person flying bumper-car and fight a space alien who travels the stars on a giant, mirrored surfboard. Heck yeah. The only question you need to ask is whether or not Tim Story will be able to invent another reason to get Jessica Alba in her underwear. Let’s hope then answer to that is yes.
by Josh Tyler

http://cinemablend.com/previews/Fantastic-Four-Rise-of-the-Silver-Surfer-1806.html

 

[Sam Fisher]

I watched this movie the day, & I couldn't really figure out why people were hating on it so much. I mean in my opinion it captures the spirit of the FF. Much the way that Scooby Doo, & Garfield were captured. I mean I know that all these movies are not the best in the world, but they didn't stray far away from what made them apealing to begin with. Any thoughts?

The movie's ok. It's better than the Hulk. And Scooby Doo didn't capture the sprit of the cartoons because it had Scrappy Doo in it but that's besides the point..........

 

[DyeLorean]

Well...

:/

The movie isn't bad, is just that IT COULD'VE BEEN SOOOO MUCH BETTER.

I don't like the 'comedy' tone of it. The movie is HOLLOW. Lacks of a good script. The Thing becoming human sub-plot??? I mean come on!!! That means he can become human whenever he wants!! STUPID IDEA.

There are other stupid things, like when Invisible chick gets naked to pass all the people... WTF???? WTF???????????

Dr. Doom... is not bad. The last action sequence is quite good, but it should've been waaaay longer.

I don't know, maybe I have to rewatch it again to like it.

D! (dyego)

 

[Damiean Dark]

I just found it enjoyable a trait i did not get as much when watching Batman Begins it seems nowadays a film has to be dark, gritty and full of pretentious speeches to be cool FF isnt perfect (what film is?) but it was ENJOYABLE while it lasted.

 

[Everyman]

Casino Royale had a weaker opening weekend than previous, more fantasy oriented Bond movies, but is still talked about as if it’s somehow more successful.

Casino Royale mad emroe money than the previous Bond and even broke the record of Die ANother Day. If you wanted a proof that audeinces wanted serious, gritty and soemwhat "realistic" heroes, there's your answer. And CR was a commercial and critical success, unlike DAD and Fantastic Four, which was panend as a ridiculous superhero pantomyme.

 

[roony]

FF is nowhere near as bad as people make it. Things I liked about it-

-Johnny, Ben and their Relationship were well-played
-Alba is a babe and the script-writers/producers/director's extremely genius idea to get her to strip
-The characterization of the four (excluding Doom/Sue) was pretty spot-on
-The decent effects: Sue's force fields, Johnny when in not too much flame time, the Thing suit looking kinda rocky and ugly
-The nods to the ORIGINAL FF. Such as them fighting outside of costumes, getting hit by the cosmic rays in the manner drawn by Kirby, Stan playin' Willie Lumpkin

Things I didn't like, however-
-DOOM. They had better fix him for the sequel.
-The absolutely turdish dialogue ("Marco? Polo?" "No, let's!")
-Wooden acting and the lack of chemistry from Ioan and JAlba.
-Lack of drive for the story throughout the film. In this way it is similar to Spider-Man 1, in which the plot of the movie is the Goblin (Doom) trying to kill the hero (FF) for not 'joining' them (to rule the galaxy?). This is much less driving and interesting than a villain with actual motivation, such as in Spider-Man 2. Doc Ock wants to create an energy source and needs the tritium to help the world, using his knowledge responsibly. It is cheesy and lame, but its better than ruling NYC together (lamer.)
-The length of the movie: FF seems to suffer from the same problem as X3, in that it's trying to cram too much into too little time.
-The not so good effects- Stretchy Reed looked ridiculous, Johnny could look pretty bad, the Thing suit not looking like it could stop a truck or throw a car, the crappy Doom...lightning?
-The crappy soundtrack that will be dated in a year, and the crap score from Ottman that is miles away from X2/SR
-The plot holes you could drive the Fantasticar through: Debbie on the bridge (WTF?), Doom just happening to own a rocket launcher in his boardroom/apartment, Ben having FOUR fingers as the Thing, but five as a human being, the magic arrival and departure of the FF into and from space, and the apparent gravity in space that could have been fixed with three lines-
Reed: Are these gravity simulators on the ship, Victor?
Doom: Yes, the company doesn't wish for its space travellers to become too uncomfortable.
Reed: Fascinating...

Overall though, a 6/10, and a over-hated film whose sequel is likely to be quite good if all these dumb cons are taken care of and the FF really get to shine (A.K.A Latveria, real Doom, Invisible WOMAN, etc.)

 

[MOIDANGEREUX]

TOTAL LIFETIME GROSSES Domestic: $154,696,080 46.9%+ Foreign: $175,424,795 53.1%= Worldwide: $330,120,875

Opening Weekend: $56,061,504
(3,602 theaters, $15,563 average)
% of Total Gross: 36.2%
Widest Release: 3,619 theaters
Close Date: December 29, 2005
In Release: 175 days / 25 weeks

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/?pagenum=2&p=.htm

Alltime#135
Fantastic Four Fox $330.1 $154.7 46.9% $175.4 53.1% 2005

FANTASTIC FOUR
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=fantasticfour.htm