Why kids quit comics

[RogueDK]

^^^The funny thing about that is, you would think that the movies would make the kids flock to reading comics but I guess it's having a reverse effect.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I just think it's a possible factor.

 

[Drakon]

I dunno. I kind of agree. I mean, hell, look at us here on this site. For every one of us who likes what they do in the comics, you'll find 100 of us who hate what they did in the movie. So much so that I've seen people actually boycott the films, just because they're not "completely faithful to the source material". Wolverine Origins is a great example. Just go to that forum and read anything about Deadpool.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I'd rather not read any more "Baraka-Pool" posts, thank you. But kids are impressionable in many ways. They see a movie, NOT KNOWING ABOUT THE 30-40 YEARS OF BACKSTORY THAT IT DRAWS FROM-they like it. How could they then get excited over something that depicts such a radically different vision?
And it's true. We rant & rave & boycott & petition & ***** & moan about every little change that's made to a movie not centering on Batman (and a few of us even nitpick that) What kid would want to get that mentality hardwired into them, when they already like the movies?

 

[E-Man]

Good read on an interesting topic. I think there are many factors to why many kids aren't reading comics anymore. I don't think that it's something you can just pinpoint down to one certain thing. Here's my two cents.

-The biggest thing keeping kids away from comics today is the biggest issue with comics in general. The problem is that comics are not very friendly to new readers. It's very hard to get into reading comics now, and that's really on the shoulders on the industry and fans. I read comics as a kid growing up in the 90s, and I stopped reading comics around 6th grade or so. Money issues kept me from enjoying monthly comics with no job. In junior high and high school I'd pick up Wizard every blue moon, but I didn't buy any comics until about 3 and a half years ago. Then I got back into the comic scene, but it's been a slow process. I'm still a little behind on some aspects. There is just way too much continuity changes. Like Chris said, Spider-man has gone through so much that I have to pick and choose what titles to read. Trades help big time, but there is still too much. For a new fan that saw Iron Man, getting into his comics is a chore. If that new fan asks what to read about Iron Man at a comic shop, the clerk is going to tell him probably fifteen different storylines that are essential to understanding where Tony Stark is today. Think about that for a second. You're interested in a new medium, and someone who you perceive as an expert tells you that you need to spend about $75 just to catch up to a medium that's going to cost you $15-45 bucks a month. It's easy to see why they'll stay with what's tried and true in terms of video games, movies, music, etc. One of the biggest problems with that is how the storytellers of the medium get free reign. Christopher Priest had a great saying about this. He said to tell the story, and not the writer's story. Too often we get Bendis' take on Avengers, or Morrison's take on Batman instead of the story of the Avengers and Batman. Not picking on those guys in particular, but I using them as an example. When the writers get that much power from the editors you end up with several variations of a character, and you end up leaving the new readers in the dust. What really hurts is that comic fans tend to flock to certain writers. That's cool, I have my favorite writers too, but it should never be acceptable to change a character into something he/she shouldn't be because the writer thinks so. We need to vote wiser with our dollars. We should be a smarter consumer base instead of a trendy one.

-The comics medium has always been looked at as a kids thing. You guys have touched on this so well in addition to the article, so I'm not going to "preach" on that. I'm just going to offer a simple solution. I think Marvel and DC needs to hire well known celebs who are comic fans to help push the medium. They need those celebs that guys are girls drool over in schools to tell them that it's okay to read comics. I know Rosario Dawson is a nerd, and she's also very gorgeous to boot. Someone like her(and some bird chested youngin' that the girlies like to balance it) could bring kids back to the medium if they posed in magazines and billboards reading comics. I think the Big Two can pull it off.

-This is more of an extension of my first point, but it's a big problem. We as fans allow our genre to become too stagnant with the same recycled stories. How many books featuring Wolverine must we buy before telling Marvel that it's enough? It's not just Wolverine and Marvel either. Batman, Spider-man, Superman, X-mutants, etc. are all popping up in too many places monthly. This kills potential for new characters to develop, because the fans are busy buying the same old characters. This is why a new title that debuts well is in the top 30 instead of the top 15 or higher. Looking at the top 100 comics in a month is disheartening, because the top 30 titles usually feature the same damn characters. While everyone else has moved on to other titles or media outside of comics, the same fanboys gobble up their run of X-titles without even taking a gander at anything new. When new fans show up they see overkill, and a bunch of fanboys that call them noobs for not getting the love affair for reading about the same character 10 times a month. We let the companies get lazy. Of course Marvel is going to put Wolverine in every title if we keep buying it. They'll just sit on their asses feeding you the same thing if you let them. Therefore they get stale, and potential new readers shy away from the same old thing that the older generation liked. In every healthy medium new stars arise all the time. I didn't grow up listening to the same thing my parents listened to. Sure I listen to some old school stuff(Sam Cooke and Marvin Gaye FTW!t, but my youth was spent listening to Boyz II Men, 112, Jodeci, Tony Toni Tone, En Vogue, Brian McKnight, etc. instead of what my parents did. Imagine if I was a kid, and all new R&B music was new songs from Luther Vandross. I'd shy away from R&B, and into a different genre that was more progressive. Well this is what's happening with comics. Kids grow up hearing about how Superman defeated Lex Luthor in the 50s, and today they hear about Superman defeating Lex Luthor in the latest issue. Only this time Superman is a liberal that has a friend named Barack, and Lex Luthor has a new aide that looks like Dick Cheney. This is why the new generations heroes aren't Superman, Batman, and the Fantastic Four anymore. I'm an 80s baby, and I can tell you that our heroes are Ken and Ryu, Scorpion and Sub Zero, Super Mario and Sonic, and Master Chief and Marcus Fenix. We went out and got new heroes from different genres instead of having the same from our parents. If comics had some new and well written heroes(90s heroes were really really bad) then we'd be more into comics now. There won't be much fresh ideas until we force the companies to make some. If we stop spending all of our money on the same titles, then we can see some new development.

-Another problem is competition, but that's something that can be overcome by fascinating stories and marketing. I see you guys post about kids not wanting to read anything today, but how do you explain the Harry Potter series? Sure there is so much out there that vies for a kid's attention, but never underestimate the power of a good story. If the story is good enough to them, they'll sit down and read it. Let's go back to Harry Potter. Potter sucks ass like the tossed salad man, but kids don't think so. It's marketed in a way that kids just have to grab it. I know everything is to each their own, but you can't tell me that some heroes in comics is hard to sell if you marketed it right. Twilight is popular for goodness sake. You mean to tell me that the pre teen admirers of the girls who like Twilight wouldn't be interested in having their own vampire story too. For every little girl who likes Twilight, there is a guy that would love to see a badass vampire hunter kill all those emo vamp punks from that movie. Man sure would be cool if we had a story about a guy that just owned vampires. Oh yeah that's right, isn't there some Blade guy that was supposed to have comics? What did Marvel do to that? They ignored the success of the first two movies, and they just threw us a poorly drawn bone from time to time. They didn't expand on the success of the Blade fans. They just kept his crappy original powers, and got annoyed that we wanted better so they canceled the titles. The pre teen girls get a fantasy that fits into their wants, no matter how stupid it sounds to fall in love with a vampire. We get a guy that bit off his hand and replaced it with a gun.

For me there's still hope, and comics can be popular again if we put more pressure on the industry. We all just need to look at ourselves, and we need to figure out a way to save the medium. I think fresh blood that knew how to cater to people ouside of the usual comics demographic would be a good start.

 

[Chris Wallace]

What do you think of retconning? I know attempts have been made in the past, some good, some-well, Spider-Man Chapter One, anyone? BUt maybe if we didn't have the 50 years to bog it down, it wouldn't be so hard to follow.

 

[E-Man]

I think retconning actually makes the problem worse. That's how we get so many different versions of the same character's history. Once you change something then there are fans who will want it changed back, and eventually some writer comes along to make things the way they were. I fully believe that Peter Parker and Mary Jane will be married again, because eventually someone is going to try to go back to "the way things were." I think trades are wonderful for getting newbies into comics. If it wasn't for trades I'd still be on the outside looking in, so I'm very thankful for that. I think that trades should be cheaper though. 12-20 bucks a pop can really make your pocket burn. The 8 dollar digest trades are great though, so I wish they'd make more of them. I also have another radical idea. Why not release old back issues digitally for free? Companies are not going to make much money off the older issues that aren't important, so why not publish the issues you don't think will sell in trades for free on a website? For all the important storylines like Days of Future Past, Kraven's Last Hunt, The Dark Phoenix saga, Emerald Dawn, A Death in the Family, etc. you'd have to buy in trades, but all the other filler you could get online for free. The ad revenue would be pretty sustantial for that I believe, so these companies can have their cake and eat it too. New fans have something of reference to wet their palettes, and it can be a nice hub of money making. Those issues aren't going to make money by collecting dust, and not many people will buy some filler issues from 1986. But they'll read it if it's free, and plenty of companies would advertise that site.

 

[Drakon]

What do you think of retconning? I know attempts have been made in the past, some good, some-well, Spider-Man Chapter One, anyone? BUt maybe if we didn't have the 50 years to bog it down, it wouldn't be so hard to follow.

Certain retconning can be a good thing, if done right. Take Jason Todd, for example. The idea of one of Joker's victims coming back and taking up his old mantle? Genius? Making it Jason Todd, and crapping on all the drive and guilt Bats felt over his death? Stupid.

I think retconning actually makes the problem worse. That's how we get so many different versions of the same character's history. Once you change something then there are fans who will want it changed back, and eventually some writer comes along to make things the way they were. I fully believe that Peter Parker and Mary Jane will be married again, because eventually someone is going to try to go back to "the way things were." I think trades are wonderful for getting newbies into comics. If it wasn't for trades I'd still be on the outside looking in, so I'm very thankful for that. I think that trades should be cheaper though. 12-20 bucks a pop can really make your pocket burn. The 8 dollar digest trades are great though, so I wish they'd make more of them. I also have another radical idea. Why not release old back issues digitally for free? Companies are not going to make much money off the older issues that aren't important, so why not publish the issues you don't think will sell in trades for free on a website? For all the important storylines like Days of Future Past, Kraven's Last Hunt, The Dark Phoenix saga, Emerald Dawn, A Death in the Family, etc. you'd have to buy in trades, but all the other filler you could get online for free. The ad revenue would be pretty sustantial for that I believe, so these companies can have their cake and eat it too. New fans have something of reference to wet their palettes, and it can be a nice hub of money making. Those issues aren't going to make money by collecting dust, and not many people will buy some filler issues from 1986. But they'll read it if it's free, and plenty of companies would advertise that site.

Amazing post earlier, dude. And this one I can agree with for the most part, but I dunno how they'd want to do the "for free" thing, or even IF.

 

[Chris Wallace]

That makes sense, E-Man.
But it wouldn't work for everybody. The real problem is, every single factor-movies, internet, video games, being seen as kiddie stuff, Mothers Of America-they all apply. But not to every kid. You convince one kid that reading comics doesn't make him a dork, that doesn't sway the next kid's overprotective mom. You get one kid to put down the controller & read, that doesn't do a thing for the kid who just finds them jumbled & confusing. Because there is no one problem there is no one solution.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Certain retconning can be a good thing, if done right. Take Jason Todd, for example. The idea of one of Joker's victims coming back and taking up his old mantle? Genius? Making it Jason Todd, and crapping on all the drive and guilt Bats felt over his death? Stupid.

You forgot spitting in the faces of everyone who voted for his death.
Let's see-having mysterious figures with ties to the Goblin come after Spidey? Genius. Them turning out to be the illegitimate mutant offspring of Norman & Gwen? Stupid.
Undoing the chaos in Peter's life brought on by him revealing his identity? Necessary. Making the devil nullify his marriage & then selctively choosing which parts of continuity did & didn't happen as a result? Pass the aspirin.

 

[Drakon]

You forgot spitting in the faces of everyone who voted for his death.

No, I just felt I was already over-stating the obvious.

I do honestly think that retconning something small can be fine, so long as it doesn't change the fundamentals of a character or a story.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Example?

 

[E-Man]

Thanks Drakon for the compliment.

And Chris you're right on with the Mothers of America thing. I swear to God it urks me that what I like is affected by someone else's fears. If you don't want your kids to watch sex and violent things then there's nothing wrong with that. To each his own. But just because someone is afraid of what their kids will see on tv doesn't mean that you have to take it off all tv. That's like trying to get the government to outlaw pork because you don't want your kids to eat any. If you don't want your kids to eat pork then don't buy any. If you don't want your kids to watch violence, then enforce rules within your own home to keep them form doing it. V-Chips are perfect for that kind of stuff, but the FCC isn't. What might be right for you might not be right for some. I watched a ton of violent movies as a kid in the 80s and 90s(Arnie killed alot of people back then), and I even saw some nudity too. But I turned out alright. There's nothing wrong with me besides this little tick I get every now and then.

Sorry guys for typing so much. I wrote alot of essays in high school, and my brief time in college so I'm used to typing alot. That plus I'm a nerd that likes to talk about stuff.t:

 

[Chris Wallace]

Mothers Of America are, once again, the bane of the comic fan's existence. Always have been, always will be. I'm trying to educate my son on the dangers of these people.

 

[Drakon]

Example?

Well, I can't think of a direct one off the top of my head, but when I do, I'll post it.

Thanks Drakon for the compliment.

And Chris you're right on with the Mothers of America thing. I swear to God it urks me that what I like is affected by someone else's fears. If you don't want your kids to watch sex and violent things then there's nothing wrong with that. To each his own. But just because someone is afraid of what their kids will see on tv doesn't mean that you have to take it off all tv. That's like trying to get the government to outlaw pork because you don't want your kids to eat any. If you don't want your kids to eat pork then don't buy any. If you don't want your kids to watch violence, then enforce rules within your own home to keep them form doing it. V-Chips are perfect for that kind of stuff, but the FCC isn't. What might be right for you might not be right for some. I watched a ton of violent movies as a kid in the 80s and 90s(Arnie killed alot of people back then), and I even saw some nudity too. But I turned out alright. There's nothing wrong with me besides this little tick I get every now and then.

Sorry guys for typing so much. I wrote alot of essays in high school, and my brief time in college so I'm used to typing alot. That plus I'm a nerd that likes to talk about stuff.t:

Thanks for the good read.

And you're right about the pork thing. Truth be told, if it would do any good, I'd try to ban Pork like that, and when Mothers of America are all "OH EMM GEE!" I could be like "Well, how's it any different from what you do with everything else?" But it'd be my luck that I'd get support from PETA and Jewish Mothers of America.

 

[E-Man]

Well, I can't think of a direct one off the top of my head, but when I do, I'll post it.



Thanks for the good read.

And you're right about the pork thing. Truth be told, if it would do any good, I'd try to ban Pork like that, and when Mothers of America are all "OH EMM GEE!" I could be like "Well, how's it any different from what you do with everything else?" But it'd be my luck that I'd get support from PETA and Jewish Mothers of America.

Haha that sounds like you'd get the wrong type of support. Especially from PETA. I try to be open minded, but PETA makes it hard to take seriously. Their protests are stupid things like, "OMG Batman attacked dogs! Christopher Nolan is advocating the beating of dogs." If you somehow banned pork, they'd find a way to ban all other meats. If that happens I'm getting my Duke Nukem arsenal, and I'm going to war.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I'm opposed to all forms of censorship.

 

[Drakon]

I'm opposed to completely for all forms of censorship.

 

[C. Lee]

I'm opposed to all forms of censorship.

As a parent...I feel I have a responsibility to censor some things from my kids.

 

[Chris Wallace]

No, no, no-that's household regulating. Regulating in your household is when you decide what is & isn't appropriate for your kids. Censorship is when you dictate what's good for everyone's kids.

 

[C. Lee]

No, no, no-that's household regulating. Regulating in your household is when you decide what is & isn't appropriate for your kids. Censorship is when you dictate what's good for everyone's kids.

Oh....I gotcha.


Gotta say....I agree with E-Man too.....I was a regular comic reader for 20 years(from the 60's 80's)....then had to stop for a myriad of reasons for about 10 or 12 years. When I tried to restart....I was totally out of the loop and lost on all the major storyline revisions restarts and reimaginings. It's hard to come in on the middle of things these days.

 

[Chris Wallace]

And even though the companies are somewhat understanding & sympathetic to this, there's only so much they can do. They introduce the more accessible, kid-friendly titles. THat'll get some kids to read, but then getting them to cross over to the mainstream is another matter.

 

[SuGarRush]

And even though the companies are somewhat understanding & sympathetic to this, there's only so much they can do. They introduce the more accessible, kid-friendly titles. THat'll get some kids to read, but then getting them to cross over to the mainstream is another matter.

Here's the problem Chris. The mainstream right now is crap.

I know. I'm sorry to say it. But it's garbage.

I'm 23 years old, I'll be married in 40 days, and some of the mainstream comics I just stop reading they are so graphic. It's not just the MOA as you put it. There are a lot of us. It's not cencorship, it's basic morality.

I can't go out in public without having to hear people spew profanity. I can't turn on cable tv without being bombarded with softcore porn. And in the last few years I can't read a comic book without receiving a high dosage of sex, gore, and foul language.

I want my super-heroes to be paragons of morality and HEROICS. Something to ASPIRE to. You remember that kind of behaviour right?

Sure Hal Jordan's a womanizer, I get it, but do we need to show him in bed with an almost nude woman to get that across? No. You can allude to it, you can make reference in passing, and it accomplishes the SAME THING while keeping the book more friendly for children who most likely will skip right over the allusion and keep on trucking. (I know I did)

Do we need blood splattered all over the page and organs flowing out to understand the Omni-man just destroyed the heroes in Invincible? No, but Kirkman wanted it anyway. Invincible was AMAZING, SO MUCH fun, the best book I'd read in years. It was lighthearted, well written, full of jokes and action, and fun. And then Kirkman whips that little scene out. My fiance doesn't read comics because they are so convoluted and messy. But I managed to get her hooked on Invincible. As the stories progressed, they got more and more violent, more and more grim and gritty and dark, and eventually, we just stopped picking them up. The lighthearted fun that made the book accessible and appealing to us was gone.


My pull list usually consists of JSA, Booster Gold, an occasional Superman book, and JSA crossovers. Oh and the Flash again now that Barry is back.

JSA was fun, enthralling, wellwritten, and had all the goodness that I look for in comics. compelling characters, well written stories, great action, great art, etc... I was just bummed the last arc was all that Kingdom Come/Evil Captain Marvel stuff (Yeah he's another of my favorites) but the last issue of JSA was WONDERFUL.

The fun comics are few and far between these days. I've stopped buying Marvel, it's pretty much all about these morally ambiguous people that may or may not be "superheroes" and I use the term loosely.

At least DC still has some good guys.

Saddened and Serious,
Sugarrush


P.S.
Don't knock Marvel Adventures, I've bought some of the spider-man ones in trade and they are pretty fun to read. None of the messed up continuity to suffer through, funny jokes and decent action. A little child-like at times, but otherwise, better than the 616 garbage.

 

[SoulManX]

I think the problem of why we don't see the fun time comic era is because you have so many fans ( adult geeks) scream for gritty and grim i.e. Frank Miller's Batman. All Star titles should have been more for kids and less for the adults

 

[SoulManX]

E-Man makes a very good point the new age heroes are digital

Even with Marvel and DC more kids can get with them now threw a controller or tv show