Why there will never be a better Batman than Keaton

Discussion in 'Batman World' started by Chris Wallace, Mar 19, 2005.

  1. buggs0268 Registered

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    No, no one was expecting Camp. We were told there would be no camp in it, so no one was expeting it. But that was the only Batman theme song. The Elfman score had not been released till November of that year. The prince album was out, but teh 60's theme was the most recognizable. But, like I said, I wa there sneak preview before opening night and the next week that was all that people talked about, non fan boys included was that the movie was a let down. We were expecting something on the calibre of how Superman 1 was treated minus the Otis crap. I remember people groaned when the joker pulled that damn long gun out of his pants. It was as bad as when the fricken penguins came out to drag the penguin to the water at teh end of Batman Returns. Everyone groaned. There were a few "Oh come on!" being shouted out.

    After Returns, there were Warner guys where there, as it was the day after opening day, handing out survey cards. The card had questions like "Will you buy this when it comes out on video?" "What wa the part you liked the most?" "What was the part yo uliked the least?" Stuff like that. I hadned my cards in last and I asked the Warner Rep there, who was with three other guys tallying up responses, how it rated. The guy said, "Same as last night and what we are hearing from other guys doing this aroudn the country. People don't like it."
     
  2. Proximo Registered

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    What yoou write dosent make any point, But however the long/big gun is Joker's things his gadjets is supposed to be overdesigned and laughable at.
    As for the end of Returns when the penguins dragged him down the water i hated to, but overall '89 and Returns is to date the best Batman live action we have seen, Some people may hate burtons batman but not as much as Joels. and Begins will probably be good in its own way. i mean its gone 16 years since the first movie came. Its a big diffrence about the film making 16 years ago and today.
     
  3. Infinity9999x Registered

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    I dont know about you buggs but I first saw B89 when I was in second grade and I thought it was loads better then BR, and B&R which both had more action and were aimed more for kids my age at the time. Many of my friends, who aren't comic fans at all, like B89 much more then the other movies because they thought the movie was more serious and had a better storyline then the other movies. In this forum its almost a complete concensuss that B89 and BR are the best batman movies to date. I really haven't heard anyone say that movie sucked.
     
  4. buggs0268 Registered

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    Right, they are better then forever and batman and robin. I saw all the movies on opening night except returns, which I saw the next day, and Batman 89, which I saw the sneak showing at 12:00 am the night before opening night. Watching Batman and robin was like, as ford fairlane puts it, Ma*******ing with a cheese grater. It was torture. I like parts of Forever but then hated parts. So Batman 89 is best in that series, but in all they all sucked ass. I think Batman Begins will put all of them to shame. But I wished they had filmed the Mankeweitcz script. That was the closest to Batman. The ending needed work but it would have made a great film. Far superior to Batman 89. but what I am saying is that when the film came out, okay meaybe kids in the second grade like it, but the adults didn't. It was a big let down. people were expecting what Donner did for Superman, minus the otis, teshmacher and luthor treatment. It was very disapointing. All I am saying is now ir is revered, but when it was released most people hated it as it was a big let down.

    And trust me, the big Joker gun got a lot of groans. It was rediculous. It was something you would expect from the 60's series. People groaned during that high shot of batman in the begingin when they used cell animation for batman. I Know that Derek Meddings tried to do it with a rod puppet, and it didnt work, so his sone did it with cell animation. It just sucked oit see it on the screen. People hated the fact that the much of the batcave walls are supposed to be the support pylons of the buildings in Gotham. but Wayne Manor is outside of town and the cave is underneath the house. There were just alot of things that people hated. People hated the voice activated batmobile as it was too muchj like Night Rider.

    People were upset because instead of a viscious Joker who cracks jokes, we got an old guy saying things like "I'm of a mind makes a movie" and "never rub another mans rubarb." We thought we were going to get a Joker that was up to par with Jack Torrence from The Shining. not this goofball thing that Batman could have kicked his ass in two seconds. And Keaton may be Batman to you guys, but to us older people he was just Mr. Mom in a Batman suit. If Ashton Kutcher had been chosen to be superman, to all of us now it would be "Micheal for that 70's show or the guy from Dude Where's My Car in a Superman suit. That is what it was for us. Mr. Mom in the Batman suit.

    IN short, we were expecting Batman begins, and we got this weird thing.
     
  5. swifty Registered

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    oooookay!!! time to change those glasses and make sure to go the best optometrist money can buy!!! :)
     
  6. Infinity9999x Registered

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    actually w/ those two pictures keaton looks more intimidating. I think it's because of the lighting, Bale's in more light while keaton's in more shadow.
     
  7. swifty Registered

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    I very much like Keaton as an actor, and in all honesty I liked him as batman back in 89, but now compared to Bales batman, he looks anything but intimidating.
     
  8. Infinity9999x Registered

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    I saw Mr. Mom too and I thought Keaton did a pretty good job of portraying Batman, the guy just didn't have the physical appereance to play Wayne as well as Bale probably will. I don't know, I still find B89 entertaining, and while not as close to the comics as desired, still fun to watch. I wouldn't say the movie sucked, B&R sucked, The Fantastic Four straight to video movie sucked, The Captain America with rubber ears movie sucked. B89 didn't suck, it may have been diffrent, but I personally still thought it was enjoyable.

    Nicholson's Joker may have been diffrent from what we were expecting but I still thought he did a good job, many people think he stole the show and was the best part of the movie for them. I guess its all in how you want to view the Movie. I viewed B89 as a diffrent take on the Character of Batman, and Nicholson's Joker was a diffrent preception of the Joker. Though I would still prefer a Joker like Hammil's from B:TAS I still liked Nicholson's Joker.

    I hope Begins is better then B89, but i'm not getting my hopes up yet, I want to reserve judgment until I see the movie. I don't want to hype myself up to much because then if it's bad it'll hurt more.
     
  9. darknight7 Registered

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    all you BALE WILL BE THE BEST are just a bunch of ban wagoners...


    *And I agree with you CW...Keaton...IS THE BEST:up::)

    --dk7
     
  10. P. Cushing Registered

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    I have a feeling that The Guard will verbally kick your ass.
     
  11. The Guard Registered

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    Done and done.

    If people didn't like BATMAN, why did it clean up the box office for much more than one weekend? Why did merchandise fly off the shelves? Why was there clamor for a sequel? Why do DVD/VHS copies of it still sell fairly well?

    Why?

    Let's hope so. With a budget of more than fifty percent more than what BATMAN & ROBIN or any previous film had, a star-studded cast of even bigger names, and almost eight years of advancement in special effects technology, as well as the talent involved, it damn well better.

    Hardly. Even the second draft of that script is filled with camp.

    Adults made up quite a bit of the moviegoing audience for BATMAN.

    I think that people were expecting exactly what they saw in trailers, and exactly what they got. A Batman film with a new, darker, different take on the character, black rubber, a new Batmobile and Batwing, Jack Nicholson as The Joker and Kim Basinger as the love interet, directed by one of the hottest directors at the time.

    Odd, because blockbuster movies tend to be LESS revered as time goes on. Most people don't even remember BATMAN, other than the fact that Keaton was Batman and Nicholson was "some villain".

    It was also something you'd see The Joker do. But funny, I never saw it in the 60's series.

    Because in 1989, everyone watching that shot knew it wasn't real. And would have cared anyway. Right.

    Those are obviously not support pylons. If anything, it's an old part of the sewer system. People hated a lot of things? Or you did?

    Except that The Batmobile didn't talk to him. Or have flashing red lights.

    Speaking of vicious, I seem to remember him killing innocent people. Just for fun. And then trying to kill Bruce. Just for being with the girl The Joker considered to be his. Nothing viscious there. The Joker was extremely faithful beyond his age.

    Batman's always been able to kick The Joker's ass in a short amount of time.

    That's tough. It really is. Because what you're going to see in BATMAN BEGINS is, you guessed it, Patrick Bateman in a Batsuit.

    Why would you be expecting BATMAN BEGINS? And what was so weird about it?
     
  12. Riven Registered

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    Great reply, Guard. Too bad your talents were wasted on such obviously unfounded and rediculous statements to begin with.

    "people hated the support pylons in the batcave" ???

    Most everyone in a general audience unwittingly swallows ANY kind of HUGE plot flaw and THAT is something he claims is something a whole theatre of people objected to? Sounds more like something he thought up all by himself on a dull wednesday afternoon... cause I've heard practically ALL bull$h!t criticisms on B89, but I've never heard that one before.

    The Mankiewicz script was terrible. At certain points it was as campy as B&R. Maybe campier.

    B89 delivered exactly what it promised. And people LOVED it. To be honest, yes it could have been a much better movie. But in no stretch of the imagination did it "suck @ss". The general audience, if reminded of it, have fond memories of it, just like they did in 1989. Fanboy appreciation changes with the wind... one day B89 is their end-all-be-all of Batman movies, the next day it's utter $h!t that will be crushed under the brilliance of Begins.

    Do I expect Begins to be a better (Batman) movie than B89? Well, I have not seen it yet, but indeed I do expect it to be better. Like The Guard said, it has the advantage of a great cast, great director, huge budget and technological advances. Most importantly, it has the benefit of HINDSIGHT in that it can look back on the previous Batman movies and even Spiderman to avoid and learn from mistakes made in the past involving superhero flicks.

    I think it is also important to remember that it IS possible to love both B89 and Begins (heck, I like BR a LOT better than B89). To consider both GREAT Batman movies and to regard both Keaton and Bale as great interpretors of the role.

    And not come up with strange revisionistic recollections of how a movie audience reacted to the most minute of details back in 1989 to prove some kind of bizarre point that one movie sucked and that another will kick its hiney.
     
  13. Guason Registered

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    First Batman is a movie better than Superman
    why?
    I`ll quote Mattew Doberman
    "Cinematic superheroes had moved from the simplicity of Christopher Reeve`s
    Superman to the brooding, tormented, shadow-enshrouded Dark Night.
    Batman remains one of the best adaptations of a comic character to the screen and certainly one of the most stylized. This is not your father`s Batman, and given its relentless grimness, it shouldn`t be your kid`s either."
    As for which of the first two Bat movies is better, I couldn`t answer but Batman is definitely the more effective.
     
  14. KenK Registered

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    Why does everyone keep saying Burton's Batman was a "re-imagining" of the character? Despite Keaton's physique, he was the same character. Parents murdered in front of my as a child, devotes life to fighting crime dressed up as a bat. Batman had seen plenty of dark periods in the comics before the movies, so let's cut the crap about Burton coming up with all that.
     
  15. GLREBORN Registered

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    Keaton was not now, nor will he ever be Batman, Heck he is not even an actor.
     
  16. Dark Vigilante Registered

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    ? Um ok. So what is he?
     
  17. P. Cushing Registered

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    He was, he was, he is.
     
  18. Edd Extraordinaire Registered

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    Shut your hole, Mr. Born.
     
  19. Guason Registered

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    he is, he will always be , he is.
     
  20. regwec Make Mine Marble

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    I enjoyed B89 a lot, but some of you people seriously believe that's the most accurate protrayal of Batman that is possible for any actor, ever? Maybe your standards are a little low?
     
  21. The Guard Registered

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    I don't think anyone said that. No one truly believes (at least I don't) that an interpretation of a famous character can't be improved on, depending on the writing and acting and look of the actor. But regardless of whether it was depicted as it is in the comics (and in a lot of ways, it was), Michael Keaton flat out nailed the role he was playing.
     
  22. Lazlo Panaflex Registered

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    man you guys sure do talk a lot.
     
  23. P. Cushing Registered

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    That's the thing with message boards.
     
  24. Punisher 04 Registered

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    I'll reserve judgement on Bale and Batman Begins til June 17, 2005 (my birthday by the way) when I have already seen it. I remember discussing Batman '89 in class and saying "they got freakin Beetlejuice to play Batman what a joke". But after I saw Batman '89 in the theater with dad and my friend, we were impressed how good the movie was and how Keaton was perfect as Batman. To this day it's still my favorite Batman movie,and one of my favorite movies I've seen.
    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]
     
  25. Infinity9999x Registered

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    Ditto. It's my fav batmovie 2. And I dont wanna get too hyped bout BB, just being cautious. I member bein hyped bout league of extrodinary Gentlemen....ya, learned my lesson there.
     

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