Wonder Woman 1984 General Discussion and Speculation - Part 2

[dhandler01]

If this HBO Max thing sticks, then WB is now making movies primarily for streaming. She mentioned that this becoming the norm could lead to a massive revolt by her fellow filmmakers. She is not toeing the company line and defending WB. That to me is telling. Say what you will, but filmmakers are artists. Someone like Patty Jenkins or Nolan clearly make these movies with the theatrical experience in mind. If as a business practice, WB stops making that a priority, then I can easily see her deciding she can work on something else she wants to do that will value that vision elsewhere.

I don’t think this is as simple as she will come back because WB gave her a bonus. I think this entire HBO Max thing does bother her artistically. Not every decision you make in life is geared toward financial benefit. Remember, despite not getting work for many years as a director on a major movie, she left Thor: TDW when she had creative differences with Marvel. Patty is someone who will do what she think is best artistically, clearly.

I am not saying it doesn't bother her artistically...I am sure it does. If she thinks Max is going to be where all movies go going forward then yeah she probably should be miffed unless she is making smaller films. But that doesn't mean she is going to be running for the hills somewhere else and there is a very slim chance a new "United Artists" will be able to make a big dent if Max and other studios go full streaming.

But any talk of all things going to Max is premature at best. Last I checked it was only the 2020/21 slate that is going streaming and that is because the US screwed up the COVID situation about as badly as you can. By the time WW84 came out in theaters who knows what is going on. (at earliest it would be July next year) There is little chance WB puts The Batman on Max in 2022 so I highly doubt they would relegate anything else that is big budget there either. (unless theater chains go broke and there is major contraction in which case not much Patty can do anywhere else that will change that)

See the big misnomer here is that WB is doing this because they want to make Max more palatable. That is BS. If they had a choice and there wasn't a Pandemic and half of the US wasn't so blatantly stupid they would want all these films in theaters. Right now there is way more money in it even if the films vastly underperform. Nolan and Patty know that. (or they should know that they are smart enough) Circumstances dictated what is happening. Those circumstances then shifted WB to using their films to beef up Max. This was not the plan at all and as soon as they can they will go back to the method that will make them the most money.

And you and I interpret Patty not towing the company line differently. You think that shows she is defiant and at risk to leave...I think it shows she knows she has all the power and WB isn't against her on it. If WB was so adamant everyone tow the line they would have gone ballistic after Nolan trashed them. They didn't. Now maybe that is cause they realize doing so would make them look bad (not that they have ever cared about that) but more likely it is because they know this is a short term issue and she is worried about long term problems that are relevant to their plans. We will find out.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I am not saying it doesn't bother her artistically...I am sure it does. If she thinks Max is going to be where all movies go going forward then yeah she probably should be miffed unless she is making smaller films. But that doesn't mean she is going to be running for the hills somewhere else and there is a very slim chance a new "United Artists" will be able to make a big dent if Max and other studios go full streaming.

But any talk of all things going to Max is premature at best. Last I checked it was only the 2020/21 slate that is going streaming and that is because the US screwed up the COVID situation about as badly as you can. By the time WW84 came out in theaters who knows what is going on. (at earliest it would be July next year) There is little chance WB puts The Batman on Max in 2022 so I highly doubt they would relegate anything else that is big budget there either. (unless theater chains go broke and there is major contraction in which case not much Patty can do anywhere else that will change that)

See the big misnomer here is that WB is doing this because they want to make Max more palatable. That is BS. If they had a choice and there wasn't a Pandemic and half of the US wasn't so blatantly stupid they would want all these films in theaters. Right now there is way more money in it even if the films vastly underperform. Nolan and Patty know that. (or they should know that they are smart enough) Circumstances dictated what is happening. Those circumstances then shifted WB to using their films to beef up Max. This was not the plan at all and as soon as they can they will go back to the method that will make them the most money.

And you and I interpret Patty not towing the company line differently. You think that shows she is defiant and at risk to leave...I think it shows she knows she has all the power and WB isn't against her on it. If WB was so adamant everyone tow the line they would have gone ballistic after Nolan trashed them. They didn't. Now maybe that is cause they realize doing so would make them look bad (not that they have ever cared about that) but ore likely it is because they know this is a short term solution and she is worried about long term problems that are relevant to their plans. We will find out.

As of right now, it is the 2021 slate. What if this plan works? You don't think they won't do it for 2022 as well? If this makes them money, it will become law. Pandemic or no pandemic.

As for Jenkins, I don't think WB is saying she has to defend them. But, if she is passionate about the theatrical model and preserving it, I don't think it is a stretch if this becomes WB's core business model that she exits. Which is something I def see as possible. Yeah, she can maybe get more money out of them, but Jenkins has historically been someone who lets art come before finances. If this bothers her and becomes law, I don't think she will just take extra money and stay.

I am not saying it will 100% happen, but if in the future we hear Jenkins is stepping down as director and maybe gets an EP credit but it will be someone else's movie, would I be shocked? I wouldn't be shocked at all.

 

[dhandler01]

Personally no not unless every studio does it. The money streams arent there yet to make it work they will lose money on every film that has a decently high budget. Disney has much better brand recognition and penetration and I doubt they are even seriously considering it. 5 years from now yes, now not a chance.

Look this is helping Max a ton and it will bring in a lot of money but do the math they are taking a bath on this. How much does Max cost a month? How many people do you think will sign up in the next year? How much was the combined budgets of all the films going to Max/day and date? I guarantee the numbers dont add up...because they cant.

There is no way WB wants The Batman to be on Max/Day and Date. That has billion dollar potential without a pandemic. (as does WW3 and AQ2...etc) Max can't match that and no streaming will be able to any time soon. Disney+ showed the stupid "premium price" model isnt gonna work yet so it just doesn't make any economical sense.

If Patty steps down from WW3 then yeah most likely this is why and I will definitely say I was wrong. (not the Amazon film cause she isnt directing that) Since I believe WW3 is supposed to be her last comic film for a while anyways we might never know what the truth is if she directs it though.

 

[kguillou]

Its a tricky situation. I think the argument that Nolan and a lot of people are making is that this decision they made is irreversible. That WB cant just switch off this same day streaming/release model in 2022 because then they may have potentially pissed off millions of subscribers who’ve become accustomed to watching new big blockbusters comfortably at home.

Thing is, I dont think that will happen, I dont think Joe Public will unsubscribe from HBO Max because he is now “forced” to go watch The Batman in theaters. I think so long as the pandemic is under control and people feel safe, people will be aching to go out and go to the movies again. WB will just need to make it clear that this is a one year deal.

 

[Micromind]

Yeah, this decision to release WB movies (same day/date release) on streaming and theaters, is partly due to prevailing pandemic situation in US, and partly due to lacklusture launch of HBO Max.

Once COVID gets under control, people will start going to Cinemas again.

Hopefully by 2022, we may return to movies earning billion at worldwide Box Office collections.

No way WB wants to sacrifice the big money on streaming, I mean... i don't see them doing same day release for The Batman and Aquaman 2.

While HBO Max will make some decent budget series like Amazon, GL Corps, JL Dark and some mid budget movies (which could be released simultaneously on HBO Max and theatres) I don't see this (releasing big budget movies on their streaming sevice) becoming a new norm.
Retaining viewership won't be difficult if they can offer the some quality content ( series).

And like Netflix, HBO Max will also make numerous exclusive low budget movies just for their streaming service.

 

[UncleSam1776]

Want to know what else contributed to the HBO Max/Theatrical model for 2021? The slate of movies coming out for WB next year. Besides TSS, which movie on that list had a chance at cracking $800M worldwide. I am talking pre-covid.

Tom & Jerry looks like crap. Mortal Kombat is a movie based on a video game and we know how that works out. Godzilla vs Kong belongs to a franchise that is showing reduced box office numbers with every new entry. Dune is an Oscar bait film that will probably end up being a Blade Runner 2049 situation at the box office. The Matrix 4 will have to draw people back to the franchise after the bad taste of the last 2 films.

 

[brandeezy89]

Yeah, this decision to release WB movies (same day/date release) on streaming and theaters, is partly due to prevaling pandemic situation in US, and partly due to lacklusture launch of HBO Max.

Once COVID gets under control, people will start going to Cinemas again.

Hopefully by 2022, we may return to movies earning billion at worldwide Box Office collections.

No way WB wants to sacrifice the big money on streaming, I mean... i don't see them doing same day release for The Batman and Aquaman 2.

While HBO Max will make some decent budget series like Amazon, GL Corps, JL Dark and some mid budget movies (which could be released simultaneously on HBO Max and theatres) I don't see this (releasing big budget movies on their streaming sevice) becoming a new norm.
Retaining viewership won't be difficult if they can offer the some quality content ( series).

And like Netflix, HBO Max will also make numerous exclusive low budget movies just for their streamming service.

I think in 2022, they'll do the same thing but on a film by film basis instead of the whole slate.

DC Films' like Batman will most likely get theatrical only releases while some others will get hybrids

 

[Micromind]

Want to know what else contributed to the HBO Max/Theatrical model for 2021? The slate of movies coming out for WB next year. Besides TSS, which movie on that list had a chance at cracking $800M worldwide. I am talking pre-covid.

Tom & Jerry looks like crap. Mortal Kombat is a movie based on a video game and we know how that works out. Godzilla vs Kong belongs to a franchise that is showing reduced box office numbers with every new entry. Dune is an Oscar bait film that will probably end up being a Blade Runner 2049 situation at the box office. The Matrix 4 will have to draw people back to the franchise after the bad taste of the last 2 films.

Agreed, and the fact that back to back releases of movies (which were not released in 2020) there's little breathing room and these 2021 releases will eat into each other's box office collections. The whole year is overcrowded.

No movie is going to make boat loads of cash. In such a scenario all movies are going to under-perform anyway.

 

[UncleSam1776]

There is ZERO chance that the THE BATMAN comes out on HBO Max and theatrical at the same time. The same applies to other 2022 WB movies like THE FLASH & AQUAMAN 2.

 

[kguillou]

Welp. Jenkins is directing a Star Wars film next...

 

[Snow Queen]

Don't get stupid, WB, I want a third one with her, damn it.

 

[kguillou]

Well i stand corrected guys, The Mouse already got to her aready. WB needs to start pulling rabbits out their asses.

 

[Erzengel]

I’ve been waiting for a Rogue Squadron movie since the video game and the books. Always thought this would be the ideal live action tv series. So excited about this.

 

[dhandler01]

Its a tricky situation. I think the argument that Nolan and a lot of people are making is that this decision they made is irreversible. That WB cant just switch off this same day streaming/release model in 2022 because then they may have potentially pissed off millions of subscribers who’ve become accustomed to watching new big blockbusters comfortably at home.

Thing is, I dont think that will happen, I dont think Joe Public will unsubscribe from HBO Max because he is now “forced” to go watch The Batman in theaters. I think so long as the pandemic is under control and people feel safe, people will be aching to go out and go to the movies again. WB will just need to make it clear that this is a one year deal.

Agreed. And Joe Public isn't going to quit going to movies just because (when they cant go to theaters anyways) WB put one slate of films on streaming. The people who want to see Blockbusters in the theater will still do so when they feel safe again.

We havent even hit 2021 yet...WB has a lot of time to make sure people know what is coming in 2022 without it seeming like a bait and switch. Nolan is smart enough to know that but he has an agenda and he will make sure come hell or high water his beliefs are recorded. That is fine but just because I happen to think he makes great movies doesn't mean I take anything he says with more than a grain of salt.

 

[dhandler01]

Want to know what else contributed to the HBO Max/Theatrical model for 2021? The slate of movies coming out for WB next year. Besides TSS, which movie on that list had a chance at cracking $800M worldwide. I am talking pre-covid.

Tom & Jerry looks like crap. Mortal Kombat is a movie based on a video game and we know how that works out. Godzilla vs Kong belongs to a franchise that is showing reduced box office numbers with every new entry. Dune is an Oscar bait film that will probably end up being a Blade Runner 2049 situation at the box office. The Matrix 4 will have to draw people back to the franchise after the bad taste of the last 2 films.

This is 100% what I thought when they made the announcement.

 

[dhandler01]

Well i stand corrected guys, The Mouse already got to her aready. WB needs to start pulling rabbits out their asses.

So she is upset with WB and goes to work on Star Wars which has been a cluster forever with studio interference and annoying fans and directors? For an artist that is an interesting move. I mean Marvel I could see but Star Wars is a joke outside the Mandalorian these days...

(and it isnt like directors dont go back and forth)

Unless she says she isnt working on WW3 I don't think Star Wars has anything to do with anything. She wasn't doing WW3 for a couple years anyways right?

edit: when I say its a joke I mean the rep is not great moviewise. Last Jedia was divisive, Rise of Skywalker was mediocre and Solo was a joke. The amount of BTS drama was WB level including actors ticked off, directors canned right before the end of filming, retcons and rehashes that made no sense...etc. Seems like a lateral move IF she is doing it to get away from WB. (which is why I don't think that is why she is doing it but we may never actually know)

 

[David Alexander]

Patty directing a Star Wars movie has nothing to do with the HBO Max situation. The deal with Disney was probably done months ago. She said she was taking a break from Wonder Woman anyway. I think she will do Cleopatra with Gal before she does the Star Wars movie. Congratulations Patty, you are now big time.

 

[geosphere]

Want to know what else contributed to the HBO Max/Theatrical model for 2021? The slate of movies coming out for WB next year. Besides TSS, which movie on that list had a chance at cracking $800M worldwide. I am talking pre-covid.

Tom & Jerry looks like crap. Mortal Kombat is a movie based on a video game and we know how that works out. Godzilla vs Kong belongs to a franchise that is showing reduced box office numbers with every new entry. Dune is an Oscar bait film that will probably end up being a Blade Runner 2049 situation at the box office. The Matrix 4 will have to draw people back to the franchise after the bad taste of the last 2 films.

I think Matrix 4 has huge potential to be a massive hit despite how horrible the last two films of the series turned out. It was so long ago, people wont think about how bad the last 2 were if the new one shows explosive new potential. The problem is... The Wachowskis, one of which is directing this next entry, have no taste. The only film they've made that I like, was the very first Matrix. Every movie they have came out with afterwards was complete and utter GARBAGE(I'm looking at you Jupiter Ascending).

If the new Matrix series was being worked on by other more competent storytellers with good taste. It can definitely be a force. Unfortunately, like I said one of the Wachowskis is the one behind this new matrix which gives me low expectations. What gives me some hope is that most of the original cast is returning to reprise their roles which should make some fans happy.

I did read that there are separate Matrix projects in the works with Michael B Jordan slated to take the starring role. My guess is that Matrix 4 is being done by Lana Wachowski in order to get the Wachowski blessing to do these separate Matrix projects to begin with.

 

[UncleSam1776]

I think Matrix 4 has huge potential to be a massive hit despite how horrible the last two films of the series turned out.

The problem is... The Wachowskis, one of which is directing this next entry, have no taste. The only film they've made that I like, was the very first Matrix. Every movie they have came out with afterwards was complete and utter GARBAGE(I'm looking at you Jupiter Ascending).

If the new Matrix series was being worked on by other more competent storytellers with good taste. It can definitely be a force. Unfortunately, like I said one of the Wachowskis is the one behind this new matrix which gives me low expectations.

The second part of your comment just killed the first part.

 

[geosphere]

The second part of your comment just killed the first part.

That's why you gotta read the whole thing in context ;P

 

[UncleSam1776]

That's why you gotta read the whole thing in context ;P

Your entire post is basically saying, "Matrix 4 could be good if it was directed by someone else". That is not the reality we live in.

 

[dhandler01]

Patty directing a Star Wars movie has nothing to do with the HBO Max situation. The deal with Disney was probably done months ago. She said she was taking a break from Wonder Woman anyway. I think she will do Cleopatra with Gal before she does the Star Wars movie. Congratulations Patty, you are now big time.

Yeah based on the promo she posted this has been in the works for a while. There is no way they are correlated.

(it also doesnt mean she is coming back fwiw)

She makes the films she wants to make and that is awesome. She does it with the studios she wants to which is even better. Cleopatra is with Paramount, WW is with WB and Star Wars is with Disney. She has earned it!

 

[Mysteryman]

Yeah, its highly doubtful that Patty just decided this week to do a Star Wars film.

 

[geosphere]

Cleopatra is likely going to be a HIGHLY divisive film. Will not get into why... But there is going to be a lot of people from various sides of the spectrum that are going to take issue with the whole thing. I kind of wish her and Gal Gadot wouldn't do that movie at all. I like them both too much for them to experience WHAT THEY WILL experience when that film is released. I just don't think its a good idea.

 

[dhandler01]

Are you talking about the controversy of Gal being Israeli?