Wonder Woman 1984 General Discussion and Speculation

[misslane38]

While I don't know what Jenkins' plans are for WW84, I do know that she is not totally averse to the idea of Diana killing:

I think I have stronger feelings about that than most. It wasn’t a huge hot topic of debate. I think that I probably care about her being less violent and easy to violence than anybody else because one of my favorite things about Wonder Woman is that she takes no relish in fighting and she’s not going out of her way to kill but I, myself, completely relate with the character who when push comes to shove and somebody’s got to step up and do it, then somebody’s got to step up and do it.

I love that duality of Wonder Woman that she both wants peace and means peace but when push comes to shove and someone needs to be put down like a dog, that’s what she would be willing to do. Yeah, we didn’t end up having to talk about it because I was already trying to keep it that way. Interestingly really, there’s the problem of how do you deal with the Germans and war and you’re fighting them. I actually spent a lot of time looking at interestingly Indiana Jones because that was like they’re plowing through World War II but you’re not viscerally delighting in killing. That was the cue that I took, she’s trying to take people out and certainly some of those people are being killed because that’s what it would take. You’re not getting into the act of killing as something you delight in.

https://www.criticalhit.net/entertainment/director-patty-jenkins-reveals-wonder-womans-age-kills-movies-unexpected-editing-process/

 

[Dufusyte]

You realize Max Lord isn't the first character Diana has killed in the last 35 years of comics, right?

 

[kingcharmingman]

WW stabbed ludendorf when he was already powerless, when he never said he was ares, and never had Diana regretted to have kill the wrong 'god', yet people still say this film has lighter tone than mos-bvs.

Superman snapped zod's neck after zod ravaged metropolis, used world engine to annihilate earth and tried to kill another men, clark cried sadly after killing zod, yet many audience can't accept that and called it a dark brooding superman.

I don't think you can compare mos and ww just by that.

If diana need to snap a neck, please do so, if the execution is good, people will still think WW84 is a step toward new direction in lighter tone, lol

 

[sup101]

What the argument here is? WW kill, that was established in the beach battle. Arrow in a guy heart. She's a warrior, she was born to kill, She and superman not the same. In the WW84 clip, she almost kill the bad guys by violently dragging them across the floor..

 

[sup101]

If max lord is in this movie and WW kill him, nobody would bat an eye, she killed about 100 people in the first movie. Anyway, I think Dr. psycho would be better.

 

[Willi Berg]

That struck me in the first movie- you see WW killing and injuring quite frequently- from the beach battle, to the trenches and No Man's Land, to throwing German soldiers out of buildings to Ludendorff etc. You can see Patty Jenkins doesn't pull any punches about that.

When the David E. Kelly WW TV pilot came out, people were complaining about her throwing a pipe through a security guard's neck. That seemed more gratuitous and over the top.

And yes it's not like killing came out of the blue, it is in the comics. It is part of WW's warrior code, unlike in the comics Batman and Superman's non-killing codes have been established and discussed, which is why when they do it in the movies it is more controversial and hotly debated.

 

[dhandler01]

It doesnt matter...the chances he is playing Maxwell Lord are pretty remote. And if by some small chance he is playing Lord that doesnt mean Diana is going to snap his neck in this film since this is not WW: Prelude to Infinite Crisis.

 

[harlequinade]

There's no way they will do that kill scene here after the reactions to what Snyder did in MoS

 

[Wanda Detroit]

WW does have a lighter tone. Bvs was dour and mos almost devoid of any humor and warmth that a Superman movie should have.

The warmth, charm, and humor is why WW is a lighter film. Not to mention the fact that it is about a hero who actually wants to be a hero and enjoys it.

Some people love to bring up the death and killing in the movie like it some how is some uber dark film. Almost every animated Disney movie has the same elements and they aint nothing like BvS.

 

[sup101]

If they do go with max lord, That's almost like saying, we don't have any faith in WW character history. WW has villains that can do everything he can. Mind control? Most WW villains can do that.

 

[Willi Berg]

Yeah I don't think this movie has suddenly become Justice League: Mortal.

 

[Dufusyte]

Geoff Johns is one of the writers on WW1984, and he was also a writer on the comic Countdown to Infinite Crisis, which featured Maxwell Lord and something like Brother Eye.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countdown_to_Infinite_Crisis

So it is very likely for him to push for the inclusion of something he worked on.

Indeed, the upcoming Flash movie will be based on Geoff Johns Flashpoint storyline, and the Aquaman film is based on Geoff's Rise of the Seven Seas.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/06/18/geoff-johns-justice-league-rise-seven-seas/

So we are seeing a pattern here. WW1984 is highly likely to include characters/storylines that Geoff Johns has worked on. At the time they were writing WW1984, he was President and Chief Creative Officer of DC Entertainment, which gave him extra authority to push his own agenda. He lost that role after Justice League crashed and burned.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

WW does have a lighter tone. Bvs was dour and mos almost devoid of any humor and warmth that a Superman movie should have.

The warmth, charm, and humor is why WW is a lighter film. Not to mention the fact that it is about a hero who actually wants to be a hero and enjoys it.

Some people love to bring up the death and killing in the movie like it some how is some uber dark film. Almost every animated Disney movie has the same elements and they aint nothing like BvS.

I think you are misinterpreting. People bring up the deaths to say that if your view was that Diana didn't kill in her previous outings in the movies even in her own solo film then you are, point blank, wrong. So to say she couldn't kill a villain in this movie is to not be backed up by the character's actual history both in universe but also as she's been done for probably more years than most people posting in this forum have been alive. Jenkins herself has stated she knows that Diana has terminated enemies as she sees fit as a matter of course in the comics.


I'll leave the rest of the post unanswered since the most boring thing on an Internet forum about super hero movies is having yet another pointless debate about MOS/BvS which will change no side's POV in the least.

 

[dhandler01]

Flash is no longer going to be Flashpoint and just because Johns is one of the writers doesnt mean he is going to push for a storyline that makes no sense. You are stretching.

Have you even read Countdown to Infinite Crisis? There was a lot of build up to that and the Max Lord stuff was based on other elements of the story. His time in the JLI with Blue Beetle was what thrust him into the story, since Blue Beetle's death (shot by Lord when Beetle discovers Lord's plan) is what is the last straw that leads to Infinite Crisis. Johns retconned a lot of stories to make it work, including the fact that Lord prior to that was a cyborg because his body had died.

Not to mention Lord wasnt born a meta, he got his powers via aliens...

Look they could write an all new character, name him Max Lord and put him in the film but it would be pretty worthless. There are plenty of characters to use and some weird faux version of a character most of the audience has never heard of just makes little sense. Hell the neck snap itself only comes because WW knows how maniacal and scheming Lord is and what he is capable of powerwise. Plus she knows how much he hates metas and why.

And Johns did not lose his job over Justice League...that is just ridiculous. If that were true he wouldnt be writing and producing the films and back to writing comics.

 

[Wanda Detroit]

I think you are misinterpreting. People bring up the deaths to say that if your view was that Diana didn't kill in her previous outings in the movies even in her own solo film then you are, point blank, wrong. So to say she couldn't kill a villain in this movie is to not be backed up by the character's actual history both in universe but also as she's been done for probably more years than most people posting in this forum have been alive. Jenkins herself has stated she knows that Diana has terminated enemies as she sees fit as a matter of course in the comics.


I'll leave the rest of the post unanswered since the most boring thing on an Internet forum about super hero movies is having yet another pointless debate about MOS/BvS which will change no side's POV in the least.

You are the one misinterpreting. I have no problem with Diana killing. She is an Amazon warrior. Trained for battle. She will do what she must, killing is the last option, but she will do what she must. I don't know how you came up with this from what I posted. My point was about someone's post about WW not being a lighter film just because it had death and killing in it. A lot of cartoon movies for kids have the same elements. It is how it is done and for what purpose.

 

[Dufusyte]

Flash is no longer going to be Flashpoint

I'm going to go way out on a limb here and say, if Geoff Johns were still President and Chief Creative Officer of DC Entertainment, Flash would still be Flashpoint.

It's not surprising that Geoff's creative input is getting rolled back in the wake of his departure from his former lofty role, however a lot of projects in the pipeline still bear his stamp (Aquaman) and WW 1984 is among them: it will feature Maxwell Lord and Brother Eye, both of which fit the 80's theme, but neither of which are classic Wonder Woman material, aside from the part where she breaks his neck on worldwide TV.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

You are the one misinterpreting. I have no problem with Diana killing. She is an Amazon warrior. Trained for battle. She will do what she must, killing is the last option, but she will do what she must. I don't know how you came up with this from what I posted. My point was about someone's post about WW not being a lighter film just because it had death and killing in it. A lot of cartoon movies for kids have the same elements. It is how it is done and for what purpose.

Actually this all started with some being indignant that they would have Diana kill Max Lord as she did in the comics and the killing Diana has done was used as a counterpoint to show that given the circumstances she already has been shown to kill as she sees fit. Nor has the director stated that her taking a life is totally out of bounds for the character. That's my point. I didn't bring up tone nor do I have an interest in having that debate, just adding my voice to the chorus that Diana could kill Lord, if that is Lord since we don't even know, and it wouldn't be something new to the character either in the films nor the character's history for the last 35 years.

 

[valmont]

I'm going to go way out on a limb here and say, if Geoff Johns were still President and Chief Creative Officer of DC Entertainment, Flash would still be Flashpoint.

It's not surprising that Geoff's creative input is getting rolled back in the wake of his departure from his former lofty role, however alot of projects in the pipeline still bear his stamp (Aquaman) and WW 1984 is among them: it will feature Maxwell Lord and Brother Eye, neither of which are classic Wonder Woman material, but both of which fit the 80's theme.

You sound very sure of yourself there. The photo and some details may give a Max Lord vibe, but there's no evidence that it will be him.

Besides, like it has already been said, Lord is not a WW villain, their infamous scene together might make it look like they have a deep relashionship, but the reality is that this scene only makes sense in a broader context.

I am not saying that it's impossible that it's Max Lord (for the reasons that I gave in a previous post), but I think it's probably a villain from the WW lore (Dr Psycho, Sebastian Ballesteros...).

And quite frankly, I hope it's not Lord, it would imply that Diana's villains are not interesting enough, that it was so difficult to adapt them, that they had to introduce a villain who only shared 1 moment with her.

Bring on Dr Psychot:

 

[Dufusyte]

I hope it's not Lord, it would imply that Diana villains are not interesting enough

or that Geoff Johns shoehorned in some of his (very scant) Wonder Woman material.

Look, I'm all in favor of Dr. Psycho, and ectoplasmic Steve makes a wonderfully dramatic solution to Pine.

But it's clear that is not what's happening. How am I sure it's Lord? The blue, the gold, the television monitor. Besides, I read it on the internet.

 

[terry78]

And there you have it.

 

[valmont]

or that Geoff Johns shoehorned in some of his (very scant) Wonder Woman material.

Look, I'm all in favor of Dr. Psycho, and ectoplasmic Steve makes a wonderfully dramatic solution to Pine.

But it's clear that is not what's happening. How am I sure it's Lord? The blue, the gold, the television monitor. Besides, I read it on the internet.

Look, I don't like Geoff Johns's Wonder Woman, and I don't even like the guy (don't hate him either), and indeed, he could try to push for his material, but right now, these details are not enough to convince me that it's Max Lord.

Besides, I read it on the internet.

Come on

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I am not on the Max train just yet but... I do get Maguire era Max Lord vibes from that image of Pascal.

Sure, it's a crap shoot and could be any number of suited, businessman type characters but the styling is a very good match of 80's Max.

 

[Micromind]

I'm going to go way out on a limb here and say, if Geoff Johns were still President and Chief Creative Officer of DC Entertainment, Flash would still be Flashpoint.

It's not surprising that Geoff's creative input is getting rolled back in the wake of his departure from his former lofty role, however a lot of projects in the pipeline still bear his stamp (Aquaman) and WW 1984 is among them: it will feature Maxwell Lord and Brother Eye, both of which fit the 80's theme, but neither of which are classic Wonder Woman material, aside from the part where she breaks his neck on worldwide TV.

Eh, we have very little evidence to reach this conclusion, I would say that the movie plot involves some magic based threat rather than tech based threat, so I dunno about Brother eye thing. The movie's working title is "Magic Hour" and we have seen some weird things happening around Washington DC, there's Cheetah and then there's Steve Trevor back from dead, all this does not fit into Bother Eye story-line, maybe I'm wrong here but I think we should wait till we learn more.

 

[Dufusyte]

The movie's working title is "Magic Hour"

Could be a reference to Silver Swan. She can only turn into a swan for one hour each day until she destroys Wonder Woman.

Georgetown, roommates, magic hour, Cheetah, something that looks like Steve - it all fits the Dr. Psycho "Captain Wonder" storyline (including the lovely Ms Gabriella as Silver Swan) except for the jarring introduction of Maxwell Lord and his surveillance system "to make it more relevant, (and more Geoff-like)" in place of Dr. Psycho's Victorian ectoplasm.

So, in place of a classic Wonder Woman villain and a classic Wonder Woman storyline, we're getting a trumped up 80's businessman, a headgame Steve, and a lot of monitors. And the chance for a broken neck.

 

[Micromind]

They could be introducing a character with a secondary story arc to be followed in the sequel. Also, they are going to shoot a scene with 2000 extras (mostly women) in Canary Islands, so that adds additional back story.


Usually, comic book movies are based on more than one story line.