Wonder Woman 1984 SPOILER Review Thread

[Micromind]

What do you mean? How can Diana do what for him? Renounce his wish? Max is still supposed to renounce his wish but everybody else has to do the same as well. The purpose of that scene with the Mayan guy was to explain the background of the stone and set up the rules of how to destroy it. Steve Trevor says that we need to either destroy Max...i.e. kill him...or everyone needs to renounce their wishes. Diana refuses to kill him so they pretty much establish that everyone needs to renounce their wishes. When Diana gives her speech at the end, she’s giving it to everyone who made their wish through the lasso around Max. She gets through to them and they all renounce their wishes, including Max of course.

That's exactly my point, if everyone (including Max) has to renounce their wishes, they need to do that by themselves. Nobody can force them to do so. Lasso just opens their eyes, after that, they need to renounce their wishes on their own accord.

The other thing is, things go back to how they were (earlier normal) only when everyone renounces their wishes, which might not be the case as some don't but we don't know exactly what happened later as the main person (Max) does renounce his wish to be the stone, thereby destroying it.

So, maybe Barbara has the power to transform into Cheetah at will, it's left ambiguous.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I don't think everyone renounced their wish. I think that by Max renouncing his wish, it essentially destroyed that he was the wish stone and undid the wishes.

That doesn't quite track as there are wishes being shown as being renounced after Lord already renounced his wish. If it all came down to him, then they should have been undone before the other wishers.

 

[Prison Mike]

That's exactly my point, if everyone (including Max) has to renounce their wishes, they need to do that by themselves. Nobody can force them to do so. Lasso just opens their eyes, after that, they need to renounce their wishes on their own accord.

The other thing is, things go back to how they were (earlier normal) only when everyone renounces their wishes, which might not be the case as some don't but we don't know exactly what happened later as the main person (Max) does renounce his wish to be the stone, thereby destroying it.

So, maybe Barbara has the power to transform into Cheetah at will, it's left ambiguous.

Yeah, I wasn’t saying that Diana renounced the wishes for them. I was saying that Max renouncing his wish doesn’t automatically take back all the other wishes. Everyone has to renounce their own wish for it to work.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Yeah, I wasn’t saying that Diana renounced the wishes for them. I was saying that Max renouncing his wish doesn’t automatically take back all the other wishes. Everyone has to renounce their own wish for it to work.

Yeah, cause he may have been the stone when the wishes were made, but all Lord's wish does is make he and the stone no longer one and the same. That doesn't mean those other wishes never happened or should be negated.

But it is a family movie. So everyone renouncing their wishes is fine by me. I don't subscribe to it is crap cause no way everyone would do that. That is just an opinion driven by synicism and WW is a character about optimism even if it isn't exactly realistic.

 

[Prison Mike]

Yeah, cause he may have been the stone when the wishes were made, but all Lord's wish does is make he and the stone no longer one and the same. That doesn't mean those other wishes never happened or should be negated.

But it is a family movie. So everyone renouncing their wishes is fine by me. I don't subscribe to it is crap cause no way everyone would do that. That is just an opinion driven by synicism and WW is a character about optimism even if it isn't exactly realistic.

Yeah I have no problem with it and I like the message that the movie conveys. I was surprised that there was any debate about this because I thought the ending was pretty clear. Not sure why people are coming up with their own theories.

 

[Aurakles]

I don't think renouncing a wish undoes everything that wish caused. Diana renouncing her wish doesn't turn back time and make it so that Steve was never there, just that he isn't there going forward.
So by that logic, Lord renouncing his wish wouldn't undo any wishes made on him.

I think...

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

So are the vast majority of MCU directors.

You'll get no argument from me there. The only filmmakers that have touched that franchise with any real creative vision are Jon Favreau, Scott Derrickson and soon to be Sam Raimi.

 

[Prison Mike]

You'll get no argument from me there. The only filmmakers that have touched that franchise with any real creative vision are Jon Favreau, Scott Derrickson and soon to be Sam Raimi.

Personally I would add Taika Waititi to that list.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

Personally I would add Taika Waititi to that list.

in all honesty, I forgot about him but yes, Waititi as well.

 

[Detective Conan]

You'll get no argument from me there. The only filmmakers that have touched that franchise with any real creative vision are Jon Favreau, Scott Derrickson and soon to be Sam Raimi.

No James Gunn or Ryan Coogler? I’d argue Gunn is way more of a visionary than Derickson.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

No James Gunn or Ryan Coogler? I’d argue Gunn is way more of a visionary than Derickson.

Gunn is another one I legitimately forgot about. Cooglers best work is Black Panther but I haven't been particularly impressed with anything else he's done but that's just my opinion.

 

[fan4stic]

If that were the case, then how come Diana refused to “destroy” Max...if that just meant that he renounce his wish? This is why the writing is bad because they contradict their own logic that they set up in the movie.

How is that a contradiction? Renouncing the wish undoes it. By renouncing his wish, I think it makes sense for Max's granted wishes to be undone.

Diana at that point didn't want her wish renounced or undone. I take it as that and not knowing what to do yet.

That doesn't quite track as there are wishes being shown as being renounced after Lord already renounced his wish. If it all came down to him, then they should have been undone before the other wishers.

I think that's more a personal thing. Like showing some people choose to not let something bad happen because of their wish. But I think it doesn't show Barbara renounce her wish (I think I've seen Patty post about it being ambiguous), and it shows her losing her powers.

Yeah, cause he may have been the stone when the wishes were made, but all Lord's wish does is make he and the stone no longer one and the same. That doesn't mean those other wishes never happened or should be negated.

The wishing stone was destroyed when he made his wish. If he's no longer the stone, why wouldn't it be destroyed?

So by that logic, Lord renouncing his wish wouldn't undo any wishes made on him.

 

[Spider-Fan]

How is that a contradiction? Renouncing the wish undoes it. By renouncing his wish, I think it makes sense for Max's granted wishes to be undone.

Diana at that point didn't want her wish renounced or undone. I take it as that and not knowing what to do yet.I think that's more a personal thing. Like showing some people choose to not let something bad happen because of their wish. But I think it doesn't show Barbara renounce her wish (I think I've seen Patty post about it being ambiguous), and it shows her losing her powers.The wishing stone was destroyed when he made his wish. If he's no longer the stone, why wouldn't it be destroyed?

Max wished he and the stone were one. That doesn't mean it wouldn't reform itself when they separate. Yeah, we never see that, but we also never see Barbara renouncing her wish either and she was human. So, all things equal that is my take

 

[xenos5]

I was watching the Pitch Meeting episode Ryan George did for WW84 and he pointed out a huge plothole I didn't even think of. When Steve grabbed Max all he had to do was wish for everything to go back to normal and the movie could've ended there

Like I get the idea was for Steve to be selfless unlike all the other people making wishes but that's REALLY dumb. Unless Max can just refuse to grant a wish or something even if he's being touched.

 

[Prison Mike]

Even if Steve made that wish, there would have been some sort of punishment that went with it. The whole point was that there should be no shortcuts.

 

[CowCommando]

I was watching the Pitch Meeting episode Ryan George did for WW84 and he pointed out a huge plothole I didn't even think of. When Steve grabbed Max all he had to do was wish for everything to go back to normal and the movie could've ended there

Like I get the idea was for Steve to be selfless unlike all the other people making wishes but that's REALLY dumb. Unless Max can just refuse to grant a wish or something even if he's being touched.

Had he done that, only God knows what the price of that wish would’ve been. Perhaps everything goes back to normal and the next morning Earth is hit by an asteroid. Renouncing was the only way out

 

[Prison Mike]

The more I think about this movie, the more I like the message that Patty was trying to convey. I still think the writing was bad and the execution was done poorly but I do respect the message and overall lighter tone. The first Wonder Woman film still had the perfect balance of seriousness and light moments.

 

[Moncton]

I don't know if anyone feels this way, but looking at the stills and trailers, I thought there was gonna be a MAJOR battle in the streets of Washington, maybe an international war has broken out and we were gonna a get an epic Diana action moment. It honestly depresses me when I think what could have been done and what we got.

 

[PimpDaddyDOC-OCK]

I don't know if anyone feels this way, but looking at the stills and trailers, I thought there was gonna be a MAJOR battle in the streets of Washington, maybe an international war has broken out and we were gonna a get an epic Diana action moment. It honestly depresses me when I think what could have been done and what we got.

We did get to see Wonder Woman lasso swing from an airplane & lightning & then fly. Wonder Woman 1984 felt like it could have been a smaller budgeted made for tv movie that's how underwhelming the action sequences were. However Wonder Woman 1984 is more of a psychological movie with dealing with the Wish Stone & the twisted consequences behind the wishes.

 

[fan4stic]

Max wished he and the stone were one. That doesn't mean it wouldn't reform itself when they separate. Yeah, we never see that, but we also never see Barbara renouncing her wish either and she was human. So, all things equal that is my take

It doesn't mean it would reform itself either.

I was watching the Pitch Meeting episode Ryan George did for WW84 and he pointed out a huge plothole I didn't even think of. When Steve grabbed Max all he had to do was wish for everything to go back to normal and the movie could've ended there

Like I get the idea was for Steve to be selfless unlike all the other people making wishes but that's REALLY dumb. Unless Max can just refuse to grant a wish or something even if he's being touched.

Max says he grants the wishes and that he takes what he wants in return. Making that wish is still wrong. Evil wishing stone is still an evil wishing stone, no matter what the wish is.

 

[kguillou]

I think we all wanted more Wonder Woman action outta this movie. Patty is going to need a lot of help in that department for WW3. I dont think action sequences are really her thing nor does she care for them. Remember the first WW movie had a big lag in action too.

 

[xenos5]

Had he done that, only God knows what the price of that wish would’ve been. Perhaps everything goes back to normal and the next morning Earth is hit by an asteroid. Renouncing was the only way out

It doesn't mean it would reform itself either.Max says he grants the wishes and that he takes what he wants in return. Making that wish is still wrong. Evil wishing stone is still an evil wishing stone, no matter what the wish is.

How would that work exactly? Max wouldn't be the stone anymore as soon as everything went back to normal. He wouldn't be able to enact the wish price at that point.

And even if the wish price was still in effect and was just something random with Max no longer controlling it, everything going back to normal would leave the wish price with no target since Steve would go back to being dead.

 

[Micromind]

I was watching the Pitch Meeting episode Ryan George did for WW84 and he pointed out a huge plothole I didn't even think of. When Steve grabbed Max all he had to do was wish for everything to go back to normal and the movie could've ended there

Like I get the idea was for Steve to be selfless unlike all the other people making wishes but that's REALLY dumb. Unless Max can just refuse to grant a wish or something even if he's being touched.

Wish stone was evil and there was always a price to pay in bargain for wishes that were granted, when Max became the Stone, he was corrupted as well and no wish could have resulted in greater good only and nothing negative in return.

There was always a downside cost associated with it, somtimes the cost was greater than thing that was granted.

 

[Micromind]

I think we all wanted more Wonder Woman action outta this movie. Patty is going to need a lot of help in that department for WW3. I dont think action sequences are really her thing nor does she care for them. Remember the first WW movie had a big lag in action too.

Cathy Yan, who directed Birds of Prey had hired the stunt team who directed John Wick movie for one of their action scenes, Patty will need somone like them or maybe the stunt team of Zack Snyder (Damon Caro) who worked with her in the first WW movie.

 

[Micromind]

How would that work exactly? Max wouldn't be the stone anymore as soon as everything went back to normal. He wouldn't be able to enact the wish price at that point.

And even if the wish price was still in effect and was just something random with Max no longer controlling it, everything going back to normal would leave the wish price with no target since Steve would go back to being dead.

Steve can cease to exist but still pay the price if something bad happens to someone he loves.