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Worst Moments in Comic Books

Not to mention going back to the Silver Age characterization of Lex admiring Hitler, Napoleon, and Genghis Khan. Yeesh! Ever heard of three-dimensional characterization, Morrison? It's important in villains too.

The best villains always have something sympathetic about them and might have been heroes under other circumstances. However, the second best villains are just people you want to see utterly dropped off of a bridge.

The second is why villains like Bullseye work.

Take out Hitler and substitute Caesar and you have a list of great military conquerors. Maybe Luthor is just also a racist ;-)

But yes, All-Star Superman had a great take on Lex Luthor in my opinion. Luthor's biggest problem with Superman isn't complex, its the fact that Superman has screwed up years of work and delayed him on countless times. Frankly, its pretty much the real one in the DCU as well. When Superman is gone for a year, Luthor just continues being a giant ass.
 
But yes, All-Star Superman had a great take on Lex Luthor in my opinion. Luthor's biggest problem with Superman isn't complex, its the fact that Superman has screwed up years of work and delayed him on countless times. Frankly, its pretty much the real one in the DCU as well. When Superman is gone for a year, Luthor just continues being a giant ass.

That's the problem. I don't mind it (much) in All-Star Superman, where it fits in with the Silver Age fauxhion of the piece (and the alternative is that he hates Superman because he's a scapegoat for baldness), but the knowledge that it's being imported into the "real" DC? Ugh.
 
That's the problem. I don't mind it (much) in All-Star Superman, where it fits in with the Silver Age fauxhion of the piece (and the alternative is that he hates Superman because he's a scapegoat for baldness), but the knowledge that it's being imported into the "real" DC? Ugh.

Maybe, on the other hand I remember Lex Luthor: Man of Steel where Lex Luthor justified himself as being the man whom defended the human race's accomplishments from intrusion by an alien who belittled them. In that same book, Lex Luthor kills like 16 kids.

At heart, he's just a greedy and ambitious monster.

Any comments on my earlier larger post Zev? You provided a great deal of entertainment while reading your stuff and I hope you'd add your two cents on rebuttals.

Though I'm going to add my own original bits coming up. Mostly about Thor.
 
Maybe, on the other hand I remember Lex Luthor: Man of Steel where Lex Luthor justified himself as being the man whom defended the human race's accomplishments from intrusion by an alien who belittled them. In that same book, Lex Luthor kills like 16 kids.

At heart, he's just a greedy and ambitious monster.

Yes, but I like that he has reasons for being a greedy and ambitious monster, that he justifies it to himself by saying "Yes, I do horrible things, but they're for the greater good." Nobody in the real world goes around saying "You know who's evil? Me. Man, I love Hitler!"
 
Doctor Doom Mischaracterization: In the recent Black Panther storyline, we have Doctor Doom talk about the inferiority of black people and comment how the Black Panther's Wakandans must be mutants because their so advanced. Okay, first of all, in the 40 odd years that Doctor Doom has existed...never once has he indicated that he's a racist. Doctor Doom went back in time to kill Adolf Hitler for Christ sake. While you can certainly be a bigot when your people are discriminated against, Doctor Doom being a gypsy and all, it tends to make you aware of the pointlessness of naked prejudice. However, Dr. D also is the world's greatest scientist after Reed Richards and you'd pretty much think that he's aware that euglenics is bull**** science. Finally, this is actually him trying to be diplomatic with the Black Panther. He has to know T'Challa is huge on 'One African People, One Black Race' style progressivism (despite that really making no sense).

I call Doombot.

Would it be out of character for Doom to say that just to piss off Black Panther, get him riled up and not thinking straight? Doom knows all people have potential and you have to use them in just the right way...perhaps it was an attempt at manipulating Black Panther
 
Yes, but I like that he has reasons for being a greedy and ambitious monster, that he justifies it to himself by saying "Yes, I do horrible things, but they're for the greater good." Nobody in the real world goes around saying "You know who's evil? Me. Man, I love Hitler!"

That's assuming Luthor thinks of Hitler as evil. I mean yes Luthor justifies his behavior in the name of the greater good, but that's always been more or less a load of transparently self-serving horse****, a Luthor who conceives of Hitler as some sort of misunderstood genius would be entirely in keeping with such a characterization.

And as far as Ghengis Khan, he was actually a military genius who was much less of a sadist than the nobility of most of the lands he conquered, and whose globe-spanning empire promoted religious freedom and allowed for the exchange of philosophy and knowledge across whole continents.

Would it be out of character for Doom to say that just to piss off Black Panther, get him riled up and not thinking straight? Doom knows all people have potential and you have to use them in just the right way...perhaps it was an attempt at manipulating Black Panther.

Naw, even as concerns manipulating an enemy Doom wouldn't stoop to anything so petty or obvious as racism. I mean the entire point of Doom is as far as he's concerned, there are exactly two groups into which humanity is divided, Doom, and Everybody Who Isn't Doom. He would never acknowledge one group of people who aren't Doom as superior to any other group of people who aren't Doom because in his eyes all people are equal in their complete inferiority to Doom.
 
Spider-man's parents coming back and then turning out to be robots.
 
<5&#8230; 4&#8230; 3&#8230; 2&#8230; 1&#8230;>

A rolled-up scroll is on the command desk. Crow sits at it, pen in hand (how he wrote anything when his arms don&#8217;t work will remain a mystery). Mike and Tom walk (and hover, respectively) in.

MIKE: So Crow, what&#8217;s this about fixing the comic?

CROW: Not just A comic, Mike. ALL comics.

TOM: Oh boy, he&#8217;s having another messianic fantasy again.

CROW: Get thee behind me, Tom! Now Mike, what is the problem with all internet petitions?

MIKE: Nobody pays attention to them?

CROW: Too few signatures, exactly! So I&#8217;ve combined all the internet petitions into one super-petition! If everyone signs this, then EVERY petition will be granted.

MIKE: I&#8217;m not sure that&#8217;s such a good idea, Crow.

CROW: Shut up and start signing.

TOM: Well hell, I&#8217;m all for it. Mike, could ya jot me down?

Mike picks up the scroll. It falls open, almost filling the room.

MIKE: Okay&#8230; retcon Sins Past&#8230; that sounds reasonable&#8230;

TOM: Sign it &#8220;Thomas Augustine Servo.&#8221;

Mike begins signing.

MIKE: Bring back Blue Beetle&#8230; Okay, I could see that working. Give Steph a memorial&#8230; I think everyone is already in agreement with this stuff, Crow.

CROW: That&#8217;s why I had to get on the horn to some of the more minor fen factions.

MIKE: Bring back Gwen Stacy? Marry Peter and Betty Brant?

CROW: People have long memories, Mike, what can I say?

MIKE: Give the Welsh better representation?

CROW: When was the last time you saw a Welshman portrayed in a positive light?

MIKE: More scenes of Wonder Woman tied up&#8230;

CROW: That one was me.

TOM: I&#8217;m all for it! Sign me down!

MIKE: Thomas&#8230; Augustine&#8230; Crow, what&#8217;s this?

CROW: That&#8217;s &#8220;don&#8217;t have a sense of humor about pet causes.&#8221; It&#8217;s one of our more agreed-upon subjects. Just write down &#8220;fandom is serious business&#8221; and we&#8217;re in the clear.

MIKE: Teach Creationism in public schools?

CROW: Let&#8217;s see Bill Willingham ignore that voting bloc!

MIKE: Crow, these petitions have nothing to do with each other! Some of them are blatantly contradictory!

CROW: No, they all match up.

MIKE: &#8220;Less revealing costumes&#8221; and &#8220;More Nightwing ass-shots&#8221;?

CROW: That first one only applies to the women.

MIKE: Wait a minute, what&#8217;s this in small print?

CROW: Oh, that? That&#8217;s nothing, nothing&#8230;

MIKE: &#8220;We swear allegiance to Crow T. Robot, our lord and master, for as long as he&#8230;&#8221; Crow, what&#8217;s this all about?

CROW: Oh, it&#8217;s simple, Mike. You see, everyone loves *****ing about comics. They don&#8217;t know what&#8217;s wrong with them, but they know that Something Is Wrong. The writers are fanboys. The writers aren&#8217;t fannish enough. Too many retcons, yet the continuity is static. Too many deaths, yet the wrong characters keep on living. So to capture the heart and minds of comic book fans, all I have to do is blame every single problem on an industry-wide pandemic.

MIKE: Which is?

CROW: The Jews.

Long silence.

TOM: Crow, I&#8217;m Jewish.

CROW: Yeah, that&#8217;s why I&#8217;m going to have to ask you to wear one of these.

He holds out a yellow star. An even longer silence before the movie sign starts flashing. They quietly enter the theater.

[5&#8230; 4&#8230; 3&#8230; 2&#8230; 1]

MIKE: That&#8217;s it. No more Leni Riefenstahl for you.
CROW: But Mike, her movies are pure art! Why do you have to politicize art?

3.

CLOSE ANGLE&#8212;VICKI&#8217;S HAND is at the MONITOR, hitting the BUTTON. Alfred appears on the MONITOR.

5.3.1 VICKI: Who&#8217;s calling?

5.3.2 (Radio Balloon) ALFRED: Young lady, BRUCE WAYNE requests your presence. Would you be available tonight?

TOM: We can pencil you in for the eight-to-four shift, there may be some overtime, in which case you&#8217;ll be duly compensated.

4.

EXTREME CLOSE ON VICKI&#8212;she&#8217;s thunderstruck. Bolt out of the blue. She had no idea this was coming.

MIKE: Guess she didn&#8217;t read the solicits.

She&#8217;s never met Bruce. This is astonishing. Eyes wide, mouth calm.

MIKE: Ears burning.

5.4.1 VICKI: I&#8217;ll be right down. I&#8217;ll be quick.

PAGES SIX AND SEVEN

MONTAGE:

ALL: We&#8217;re gonna need a montage!

Play it as it lays, Jim. Go for broke. Lotsa little panels. VICKI fusses through CLOTHES. Applies MASCARA and LIPSTICK.

CROW: Dabbles in necromancy.

Ditches CLOTHES she doesn&#8217;t like. Fusses through the clothes she does like. Dresses.

ALL: Boo!

Checks herself in the MIRROR. Frowns. Undresses.

ALL: Yay!

She&#8217;s daunted. This is Bruce Wayne she&#8217;s going to see. She&#8217;s got a major crush on Bruce Wayne.

MIKE: Let&#8217;s hear it for strong female characters!

67.1.1 CAP: I&#8217;m having a date with BRUCE WAYNE.

67.1.2 CAP: I&#8217;m having a date with BRUCE WAYNE.

CROW: You think he splits the check?
TOM: I&#8217;m just wondering how many dates he can go on before angsting about something.
MIKE: &#8220;You don&#8217;t like Breakfast at Tiffany&#8217;s? My girlfriend doesn&#8217;t like Breakfast at Tiffaaaaaaaaaaaany&#8217;s!&#8221;

Meanwhile, cross-cut as ALFRED checks his pocket watch. The old kind.

MIKE: Because he&#8217;s British, you see.
CROW: I thought he was English.

Again. And again. And again. She&#8217;s taking forever.

TOM: I don&#8217;t think this story has room to talk about things taking forever.

She adds the last of her LIPSTICK.

Dressed to the nines, she checks herself out in the MIRROR.

MIKE: (Vicki) &#8220;Does this mirror make me look fat?&#8221;

67.1.3 CAP: I&#8217;m having a date with BRUCE WAYNE.

TOM: God, it&#8217;s no big deal! I&#8217;ve been on a date with Bruce Wayne.
MIKE: Really? How was it?
TOM: Guy was all hands.
MIKE: Eww.

67.1.3 CAP: How cool is THAT?

CROW: Ummm&#8230; Lorenzo Lamas cool?

PAGE EIGHT

1.

EXT. GOTHAM STREET &#8211; NIGHT

AFLRED holds the door open to a ROLLS ROYCE&#8212;the old kind&#8212;for VICKI. She strides toward it, body-proud as she deserves to be.

MIKE: Who you are on the inside is irrelevant.

8.1.1 VICKI: Sorry I took so long. I really wasn&#8217;t expecting this.

CROW: So, we gonna get any explanation on why Bruce didn&#8217;t call ahead?
TOM: Maybe he&#8217;s just a jerk.
CROW: Batman? Nooooooooo.

8.1.2 ALFRED: And I doubt he&#8217;ll be expecting THIS. You STUN. Welcome ABOARD, love.

MIKE: &#8220;Welcome to the Black Pearl!&#8221;
CROW: If she was Kiera Knightley, her breasts would be smaller.
TOM: Well, you could say that about anyone.
MIKE: Shh!

2.

INT. ROLLS ROYCE &#8211; MOVING &#8211; NIGHT

ON ALFRED &#8211; WE SEE VICKI in the backseat. She&#8217;s dazed. She can&#8217;t believe this is happening.

TOM: Bat-Rohypnol working great, as usual.
MIKE: Hey, we all know the only kind of rape Batman partakes in is statutory.

8.2.1 ALFRED: Master BRUCE wondered if you might fancy the CIRCUS.

8.2.2 VICKI: Fancy? Circus?

MIKE: Wondered?
TOM: Master?
CROW: Might?
MIKE: If?
TOM: The?
CROW: You?

Sure. Whatever.

3.

EXT. STREET &#8211; NIGHT &#8211; WIDE

The ROLLS ROYCE roars off and away.

MIKE: So, umm, guys&#8230; you think she&#8217;s having a date with Bruce Wayne?

8.3.1 CAP: I&#8217;m having a date with BRUCE WAYNE.

MIKE: Oh.

4.

INT. ROLLS ROYCE &#8211; EXTREME CLOSE ANGLE

VICKI&#8217;S MOUTH breaks into a luscious SMILE.

CROW: &#8220;Man, that last episode of Scrubs was their best episode yet!&#8221;

8.4.1 CAP: How cool is THAT?

ALL: (singing) How cool is a hot summer night
When the stars line up
And everything feels just right
How cool is knowing inside
That I'm the one she's looking at
With that look in her eyes.

PAGE NIN

1.

INT. CIRCUS TENT &#8211; CLOSE ANGLE

HANDS ONLY &#8211; MOM and DAD&#8217;s hands catch DICK&#8217;S at the forearms. He matches their grips.

9.1.1 CAP: They always catch me.

9.1.3 CAP: They&#8217;re always there for me.

MIKE: &#8220;Watching, waiting for me to slip up, look at the baby, look at the baby&#8230;&#8221;

2.

INT. CIRCUS TENT &#8211; CLOSE ANGLE &#8211; HEAD SHOT

CROW: And next, a shot of his face!
MIKE: Crow!

- DICK GRAYSON

again sails, upside-down. Enjoying his excellence.

TOM: Something Frank Miller hasn&#8217;t been able to enjoy for a long time.

9.2.1 CAP: I fly.

3.

WIDER &#8211; MULTIPLE FIGURE SHOT

As DICK flips and somersaults from one TRAPEZE to the next, locking his legs on the last of them.

MIKE: These Yoga classes are really getting eclectic.

4.

FULL FIGURE

CROW: That&#8217;s the only time you&#8217;ll see THAT word in a Jim Lee book.

DICK SWINGS on the TRAPEZE, legs locked, eyes determined, smiling wide.

5.

INSERT &#8211; CLOSE ANGLE

DICK&#8217;S LEGS LET GO of the TRAPEZE. Dropping.

PAGE TEN

1.

FULL FIGURE

Dick falls, spinning through space, brilliantly.

TOM: But does gravity get a thanks? No!

But we think he&#8217;s going to die.

CROW: Yeah, because characters whose names are in the title bite it all the time.

10.1.1 NO TAIL: My GOD&#8212;

MIKE: Sulu?

2.

HIGH ANGLE &#8211; WIDE

A HUGE CROWD BELOW REACTS as DICK FALLS RIGHT TOWARD THEM. PEOPLE SCATTER.

TOM: Yeah, wouldn&#8217;t want to get crushed by that twelve-year-old kid.

10.2.1 NO TAIL: My GOD my GOD

10.2.2 NO TAIL: My GOD this is HORRIBLE&#8212;

10.2.3 NO TAIL: My GOD&#8212;

MIKE: Guess there aren&#8217;t any atheists in the audience.

3.

IN THE CROWD &#8211; BOX SEATS &#8211; MEDIUM ANGLE

VICKI clutches the arm of 24-year old BRUCE WAYNE. She&#8217;s in horror. BRUCE leans forward. Stroking his

ALL: EWWWWWWW!

Chin

ALL: Whew.

In the classic Dick Sprang Batman gesture. Smiling. Eager

10.3.1 VICKI: Oh my GOD. Oh my GOD.

CROW: Vicki has a rather small vocabulary, doesn&#8217;t she?
MIKE: She doesn&#8217;t need a big one to go on a date with BRUCE WAYNE.
TOM: How cool is THAT?

10.3.2 BRUCE: Don&#8217;t worry, darling. This kid knows what he&#8217;s doing.

MIKE: &#8220;At least, that&#8217;s what we told child protection services&#8230;&#8221;

4.

CLOSE ANGLE &#8211; DICK&#8217;S HANDS

Yank a stretch of NYLON CABLE from his side.

5.

CLOSE ANGLE &#8211; A SMALL GRAPPLING HOOK

Rides the CABLE, flung upward.

6.

CLOSE ANGLE &#8211; THE GRAPPLING HOOK

SNAPS to the TRAPEZE.

MIKE: That trapeze just got served.

7.

CLOSE ANGLE &#8211; DICK&#8217;S HAND

Holds tight to the CABLE, swinging.

PAGE ELEVEN

1.

FULL PAGE &#8211; DICK GRAYSON,

Astonishingly, SWINGS by his CABLE in an arc over the stunned CROWD. HE DIDN&#8217;T BLOW IT! HE&#8217;S NOT GONNA DIE!

CROW: Except on the inside, where he keeps all his emotions tightly bottled up&#8230;
MIKE: Feeling a little dark today, Crow?
CROW: It&#8217;s the Miller, Mike. He&#8217;s getting to me.

PAGE TWELVE

1.

CLOSE ANGLE &#8211; VICKI

Slumps against BRUCE, dumbstruck.

MIKE: Something tells me it doesn&#8217;t take much to do that.
TOM: &#8220;So THAT&#8217;S how they get the cream in the Twinkie! WOW!&#8221;

12.1.1 VICKI: This kid&#8217;s AMAZING.

12.1.2 BRUCE: Yeah, I&#8217;ve had my eye on him for a while. He&#8217;s SOMETHING, all right.

ALL: Ummm&#8230;
MIKE: Okay, I don&#8217;t think I can take much more of us. Let&#8217;s take a break.
CROW: And good riddance. Batman actually having a romantic interest in Robin is kinda like Clark jamming his tongue down Lex&#8217;s throat. You think you want it&#8230; until you don&#8217;t want it.
MIKE: I never wanted it.
CROW: Homophobe.

<5&#8230; 4&#8230; 3&#8230; 2&#8230; 1&#8230;>
 
You just made sweet, beautiful love to my brain. :wow:
 
Professor X having a crush on Jean has effed me up for yrs to come.

To be fair, I liked it a lot better when Professor Xavier's chief flaw is he's a huge lech trapped in a wheelchair than he's actually an evil manipulative mastermind. It's bad enough Professor X has sex with Holocaust survivors he's treating, Amelia Vought, A Scottish girl he keeps on, and a Bird woman....

You don't need him keeping an AI enslaved in the Danger Room.

Frankly, I like that he's going "Oh yes, you certainly ARE nice Jean Grey. If I wasn't in this wheelchair I'd show you a few things..."
 
Just remember, the comic where Lex was admiring statues of Khan and Hitler was written by Jerry Siegel, who created Lex. So if it worked for Siegel, it works for me.
 
True.

On the other hand I actually credit Peter David for Hulk advice more than Stan Lee.
 

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