Would DC be better if it WASN'T a Universe?

[crazy monkey]

Marvel comics works as a universe. It's a beliveable made-up place. You can imagine a New York with the Baxter Building gleaming in the skyline and Spidey swinging by with a friendly wave and mutants picketing for equal rights and Doc Strange doin' mumbo-jumbo down some dark alley. I've never given much thought as to why, but that shows you how natural the composition is; you don't notice the different elements, you just enjoy the whole.

But I'm really not that big a fan of Marvel comics. I enjoy DC's characters so much more. However, every time I see them all crammed into some cross-over or 'Crisis' or whatever, it irritates me, like ugly, clashing colors or food made with spices that just don't mix. Their personalities seem to get lost, their mouths are filled with bland dialogue and the story as a whole lacks a beating heart. It's obvious that the crossover is the reason for the story, not the other way around.

I say, call the whole thing off. It's time to face facts. Batman is only believable as top dog in a dark, film-noir world where the biggest threats to justice are the mafia, psycotic killers and ninjas. Superman can only be an icon (and not a joke) in a glossy, idealized America that has a Norman Rockwell past and a Gene Roddenberry future. Wonder Woman has a stupid name, but besides that , could be so much cooler in a Buffy/Highlander/Witchblade inspired setting where the stuff of legend refuses to die and catches up with present-day life to wreak havoc on our "stability."

That said, let's don't just fracture the DCU, but split it down its seams, namely, the Big Three. Take the whole shibang and pour it out over three different filters. If it's dramatic, dark and grounded, it's part of Bat-world. If it's shiny, fast-paced sci-fi, it's Super-stuff. And it it's magical or mythical, it belongs in Wonder-land.

This could just be my OCD brain desiring to organize everything, but I really feel that the seperate elements of DC comics contradict themselves when they're smushed togther rather then complementing each other.

What do you think?

-- END!

 

[Not Jake]

When I saw this thread title I was going to come in here and make some sarcastic comment about your opinions and intelligence. Possibly your penis. But actually the idea doesn't seem too bad. The only prob is that the Big 3 tend to interact fairly interestingly. I don't think it's fair to box Wonder Woman in Myth Land because her character has also been portrayed almost in the environment of Superman, the American dream deal. But I agree with Batman for the most part, I really don't like it when DC goes a little overboard trying to cram him into the superhero genre--not only that, but to try to put him at a level with Superman and Wonder Woman. He owns his city, but really, for the most part, Gotham doesn't seem to have as many overpowered supervillain attacks. It's an easier job. Not to say he works less hard than the other two; they have powers.

Batman is "Big 3" but it's a grouping of popularity, not power, and I wish DC would remember that more often. Hopefully this IC thing will lead to a realistic decrease in Batman's role with, say, The Justice League. I doubt it though. It's fine I guess. For the most part, DC's universe should really work quite well in this crazy post-crisis world.

 

[GoldenAgeHero]

thats a really dumb idea and doesnt make any sense. and would'nt work well either. thats a guarantee finanacial bankrupt idea. did i mention it doesnt make any sense? the dc works better this way with all these ideals clashing....it's just a really horrible idea.

 

[Nightwing1984]

Lol.......

 

[Tropico]

I bet if the whole DCU was based only in NY you wouldn't be making this thread. THAT idea clashes with me, but I still accept it.

I don't see the "attempts at smushing" that you mention, to me the DCU makes more sense than the Marvel U.

 

[Anubis]

Me too. At least the heros are spread the f**k out. Just about everybody in Marvel is stuck in one city. Thats not realistic at all.

 

[The Batman]

you know...Dc used to do that....

but that was back when they didnt sell many comics....and marvel started whopping their ass...partially because....you guessed it....they had a connected universe

 

[BrianWilly]

I like the current DCU and how it's structured. It feels like a coherent universe, where magic and sci-fi and noir and camp and adventure and tragedy all go together to make a solid, ongoing continuity. Starfire, Adam Strange, and Animal Man are stuck on an alien planet right now, and it feels like the most natural pairing despite the fact that none of these people have even met each other before this simply because they are all characters of this unified universe.

Heroes know each other and interact all the time, which makes you care about characters that you wouldn't normally care about solely on the basis that they are friends with or have some sort of team relationship with your favorites. I've never bought a single Hawkman or Nightwing book in my life, and yet I feel like I know those characters very well and care deeply about what happens to them because they exist alongside characters that are my favorites and are important parts of their lives. That's the strengths of a shared universe, one that I feel DC has taken very good advantage of. As much as I love Marvel characters individually, as of the last five or six years the company has failed to maintain relations between their superhero "castes," and now when everyone gets together for larger events like House of M or Civil War, it just feels a bit strained because we haven't seen any of these characters really talk to one another in years and years.

 

[The Batman]

yup. I remember in an old x0men comic when spider-man swung by and talked to cyclops and his gf and thinking how cool it was. wasnt even a crossover, either

 

[King Of The sea]

Marvel comics works as a universe. It's a beliveable made-up place. You can imagine a New York with the Baxter Building gleaming in the skyline and Spidey swinging by with a friendly wave and mutants picketing for equal rights and Doc Strange doin' mumbo-jumbo down some dark alley. I've never given much thought as to why, but that shows you how natural the composition is; you don't notice the different elements, you just enjoy the whole.

But I'm really not that big a fan of Marvel comics. I enjoy DC's characters so much more. However, every time I see them all crammed into some cross-over or 'Crisis' or whatever, it irritates me, like ugly, clashing colors or food made with spices that just don't mix. Their personalities seem to get lost, their mouths are filled with bland dialogue and the story as a whole lacks a beating heart. It's obvious that the crossover is the reason for the story, not the other way around.

I say, call the whole thing off. It's time to face facts. Batman is only believable as top dog in a dark, film-noir world where the biggest threats to justice are the mafia, psycotic killers and ninjas. Superman can only be an icon (and not a joke) in a glossy, idealized America that has a Norman Rockwell past and a Gene Roddenberry future. Wonder Woman has a stupid name, but besides that , could be so much cooler in a Buffy/Highlander/Witchblade inspired setting where the stuff of legend refuses to die and catches up with present-day life to wreak havoc on our "stability."

That said, let's don't just fracture the DCU, but split it down its seams, namely, the Big Three. Take the whole shibang and pour it out over three different filters. If it's dramatic, dark and grounded, it's part of Bat-world. If it's shiny, fast-paced sci-fi, it's Super-stuff. And it it's magical or mythical, it belongs in Wonder-land.

This could just be my OCD brain desiring to organize everything, but I really feel that the seperate elements of DC comics contradict themselves when they're smushed togther rather then complementing each other.

What do you think?

-- END!

ok frist i like dc and marvel but i dont realy belive marvel is all that believable.

ok with that being said the main problem i have is how batman,superman and wonder woman all get their own. if you would leave aquaman with his own comic like ruleing the sea and what not and green lantern corps keep a series for space and other planets then i think i could love this idea

 

[Laplace_Zombie]

It would, once again, become a contest of popularity of some sort. If, say, the DCU spreads into any number of different universes (multiple earths back, anyone?) it would actually diminish whatever sense of reality.
That there are superpowered beings flying over cities, tossing comets around, sorcerying stuff or channeling the power of gods wouldn't exclude the existance of "normal" criminals or evil scientist plots...

It is that there is a diversity of threats in the DCU that makes more room for development. Non-powered beings fighting enhanced humans every once in a while, or the superhumans involved in conflicts which can't always be solved by flying faster than light or shoving a sun in the villain's face...

 

[The Leaguer]

No.

 

[CConn]

No.

 

[yahman]

Marvel comics works as a universe. It's a beliveable made-up place. You can imagine a New York with the Baxter Building gleaming in the skyline and Spidey swinging by with a friendly wave and mutants picketing for equal rights and Doc Strange doin' mumbo-jumbo down some dark alley. I've never given much thought as to why, but that shows you how natural the composition is; you don't notice the different elements, you just enjoy the whole.

But I'm really not that big a fan of Marvel comics. I enjoy DC's characters so much more. However, every time I see them all crammed into some cross-over or 'Crisis' or whatever, it irritates me, like ugly, clashing colors or food made with spices that just don't mix. Their personalities seem to get lost, their mouths are filled with bland dialogue and the story as a whole lacks a beating heart. It's obvious that the crossover is the reason for the story, not the other way around.

I say, call the whole thing off. It's time to face facts. Batman is only believable as top dog in a dark, film-noir world where the biggest threats to justice are the mafia, psycotic killers and ninjas. Superman can only be an icon (and not a joke) in a glossy, idealized America that has a Norman Rockwell past and a Gene Roddenberry future. Wonder Woman has a stupid name, but besides that , could be so much cooler in a Buffy/Highlander/Witchblade inspired setting where the stuff of legend refuses to die and catches up with present-day life to wreak havoc on our "stability."

That said, let's don't just fracture the DCU, but split it down its seams, namely, the Big Three. Take the whole shibang and pour it out over three different filters. If it's dramatic, dark and grounded, it's part of Bat-world. If it's shiny, fast-paced sci-fi, it's Super-stuff. And it it's magical or mythical, it belongs in Wonder-land.

This could just be my OCD brain desiring to organize everything, but I really feel that the seperate elements of DC comics contradict themselves when they're smushed togther rather then complementing each other.

What do you think?

-- END!

I love it .... one could then make the JLA a multiversal, Authority esque type league, that fights truly Multiversal threats.

This idea works so well i believe it should be the foundations of any Ultimate D.C. like projects, proposed.

Flash = Superman universe (Maybe he could be a failed military Clone of Superman)
G.L. = Superman universe
M.M. = Batman universe (de-power him, make him more like the ailens from Signs rather than an over powered alternative to Superman)
Aquaman = Wonder Woman universe (Atlantis makes sense in a in this fantastical type universe)
Captain Atom = Superman universe

 

[yahman]

thats a really dumb idea and doesnt make any sense. and would'nt work well either. thats a guarantee finanacial bankrupt idea. did i mention it doesnt make any sense? the dc works better this way with all these ideals clashing....it's just a really horrible idea.

Mann i hate totally closed minded people who Bash others who try to be diffrent and original. At least evryone else has try to be constructive in their criticism. You on the other hand have rushed in with your Cave man mallet, and have proceeded to bash until the threat / meal is dead !!!!!!

 

[gildea]

Oddly enough I often think that superman works a lot better in his own universe.

 

[Doc Destruction]

Nope. ALL of the DC characters are iconic. People love them, and cheer them on. It's escapism at it's finest and it works very very well.

 

[November Rain]

I thought all the made up cities were practically a way of keeping characters in different' universes, while all coming from the same planet.

i mean what else is the reason for these fictional places if not to cause some sort of separation from the whole when really needed.

 

[Ben Urich]

******ed.

 

[Tropico]

I thought all the made up cities were practically a way of keeping characters in different' universes, while all coming from the same planet.

i mean what else is the reason for these fictional places if not to cause some sort of separation from the whole when really needed.

So that the artists and writers can make up their own landscape without having to worry about being too faithful to the real world? You know, to better provide a fantastic environment to their fantatic creations.

 

[Anubis]

Plus to taylor a city to it's protector. Like Starman and Opal, or Superman to metropolous.

 

[storyteller]

Marvel is a unified universe within new york. Dc is actually a unified universe.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Marvel's not even unified within New York sometimes.

 

[crazy monkey]

I bet if the whole DCU was based only in NY you wouldn't be making this thread.

Uh, wha -- ? Read my initial post again. My perceived conflicts within the DCU have nothing to do with its characters' physical proximity to each other, but rather the disparate elements of their respective genres and personalities being forcibly mixed.

I mean it, go read it again. Now smack yourself. I can't reach from here.

thats a really dumb idea and doesnt make any sense. and would'nt work well either. thats a guarantee finanacial bankrupt idea. did i mention it doesnt make any sense?

Yep. Same things said about the airplane, automobile, telephone and television.

So...you must be right.

******ed.

Wow. You're awesome. Simply the best. I mean, c'mon, who's better then you, really? Nobody, that's who. Except maybe Nightwing1984, whose second post ever on this site was three letters followed by a frivolous waste of punctuation.

you know...Dc used to do that....

but that was back when they didnt sell many comics....and marvel started whopping their ass...partially because....you guessed it....they had a connected universe

Emphasis on partially (Marvel also happened to have a handfull of comic-creating gods at the time), but yes, that's true. The idea of a connected universe did help to sell comics for Marvel -- fifty years ago, when the idea was fresh and new. I think half a century is time enough allotted to try something else, hmm?

And your point is loosely connected to my own: Marvel just seems to be built with a singular reality in mind, and DC still feels to me like it's been thrown together just to catch up, even after all these years.

At least the heros are spread the f**k out. Just about everybody in Marvel is stuck in one city. Thats not realistic at all.

True dat, homes. At least, when it comes to their big names. It irritates me, too. Again, my gut feeling about Marvel has nothing to do with stories centralized around a specific city. I just used their NY as an example of its cohesion, albeit somewhat cluttered.

When I saw this thread title I was going to come in here and make some sarcastic comment about your opinions and intelligence. Possibly your penis. But actually the idea doesn't seem too bad. The only prob is that the Big 3 tend to interact fairly interestingly.

Hey, thanks, man. My penis says thanks, too. He's got low enough self-esteem as it is.

I also agree -- Bats, Supes and WW do make a good combo, better'n anything on Wendy's menu. Still, I can't help but wonder if they'd read better if left to develop on their own.

Heroes know each other and interact all the time, which makes you care about characters that you wouldn't normally care about solely on the basis that they are friends with or have some sort of team relationship with your favorites. I've never bought a single Hawkman or Nightwing book in my life, and yet I feel like I know those characters very well and care deeply about what happens to them because they exist alongside characters that are my favorites and are important parts of their lives.

Y'know, that's a pretty cool anomaly you bring up there, and it's something I've certainly experienced myself (my guess is any mainstream comic reader has) and yet have never considered before. That's good stuff, dude. It would be something missed in a disjointed continuity, at least in a broad sense. It would still continue on a smaller scale, unless you simply bought every book published in your division of choice.

if you would leave aquaman with his own comic like ruleing the sea and what not and green lantern corps keep a series for space and other planets then i think i could love this idea

Whoa, so, you want every book to stand alone? That's more radical than me, people. How come this guy's not gettin' flamed?

Hey, you trolls! Some guy over here, spoutin' his own ideas! They're new, they're different from yours! Come an' get it!

...Should get the heat offame for a tick. Sorry, King.

That there are superpowered beings flying over cities, tossing comets around, sorcerying stuff or channeling the power of gods wouldn't exclude the existance of "normal" criminals or evil scientist plots...

It is that there is a diversity of threats in the DCU that makes more room for development. Non-powered beings fighting enhanced humans every once in a while, or the superhumans involved in conflicts which can't always be solved by flying faster than light or shoving a sun in the villain's face...

No reason why that stuff can't still happen in a divided DCU. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I don't meant that organized crime has to be shelved under 'B' for Batman and nowhere else. It's just that it irritates me when Batman is flying around in space with the JLA. It bothers me when Superman travels to Gotham and looks like a wimp. See what I'm getting at? I'm not against personal struggles for superheroes, and far be it from me to limit the use of a good, ol' fashioned shoot-out with ski-mask sportin' bank robbers. Those are universal tools of comic-creation. I just think that, while some things go great together, like chocolate and peanut butter, other flavors work better solo. Same with storytelling.

No.

Wait...




'K. Duly noted.

love it .... one could then make the JLA a multiversal, Authority esque type league, that fights truly Multiversal threats.

This idea works so well i believe it should be the foundations of any Ultimate D.C. like projects, proposed.

Flash = Superman universe (Maybe he could be a failed military Clone of Superman)
G.L. = Superman universe
M.M. = Batman universe (de-power him, make him more like the ailens from Signs rather than an over powered alternative to Superman)
Aquaman = Wonder Woman universe (Atlantis makes sense in a in this fantastical type universe)
Captain Atom = Superman universe

Hey...He gets it, and agrees! And holy s***t, that JLA idea is cool. I didn't take the idea that far, but I could deal with that.

Just...leave Batman where he is.

Nope. ALL of the DC characters are iconic. People love them, and cheer them on. It's escapism at it's finest and it works very very well.

Never said different, Doc. And I never will. I just wonder if we could turn "very very well" into something better.

Thanks for responding, all!

-- END!

 

[Tropico]

Uh, wha -- ? Read my initial post again. My perceived conflicts within the DCU have nothing to do with its characters' physical proximity to each other, but rather the disparate elements of their respective genres and personalities being forcibly mixed.

I mean it, go read it again. Now smack yourself. I can't reach from here.

I'm smacking myself. I'm smacking myself for only remembering your first paragraph about New York and the Baxter building and all taht mumbo-jumbo that, at least to me, make it seem like, even though you say it doesn't, Marvel heroes' location does matter. My bad.*Smack*

Now I'm smacking you!*SMACK!* Smacking you for calling the replies to your post flames. And then only acknowledge those that seemed to agree with you or like your idea of a divided DCU. I get your idea, I understand it. Just because I don't share your ideas and don't see the same things your OCD addled mind see doesn't make me dumber than the people who agree with you. Just because, to me, the flow between characters and titles doesn't seem "smooshed" doesn't mean I'm not open to new ideas. Heck, I'm a Legion fan and I was ecstatic when it was revealed that Ra's Al Ghul was the mastermind in one of the story arcs. A "separate faction" of DC having a link with the mainstream, it was awesome.

Next time you only want to hear opinions from people that agree with you, please do so. Otherwise, expect what happened in this thread after you write "What do you think?" and get honest answers.