Superman Returns Would Reeve's Superman do what Routh's version did in SR?

[Showtime]

Keep in mind though that the bank robbery was set up as a distraction to keep Superman busy while Luthor was robbing the museum. The part was cut from the movie but the novelization from the script is clear on that. So in essence that over the top robbery would not have taken place if not for Superman's pressence in the first place. I'm not sure what that proves - I just thought I would throw it out there!

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That is not true, that was never in later drafts of the script and never was filmed. The criminals robbing the bank were not connected at all with Luthor. The novelization is a different entity. The car scene was the distraction for Superman. I don't remember a connection in the script to the bank robbery anywhere? Did I miss it?

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Keep in mind though that the bank robbery was set up as a distraction to keep Superman busy while Luthor was robbing the museum. The part was cut from the movie but the novelization from the script is clear on that. So in essence that over the top robbery would not have taken place if not for Superman's pressence in the first place. I'm not sure what that proves - I just thought I would throw it out there!

Wasnt Kitty's rampaging car the distraction for Luthor robbing the museum? It may have been in the script but it wasnt in the movie so i just thought it was a random bank robbery.

 

[Rob-el]

]

That is not true, that was never in later drafts of the script and never was filmed. The criminals robbing the bank were not connected at all with Luthor. The novelization is a different entity. The car scene was the distraction for Superman. I don't remember a connection in the script to the bank robbery anywhere? Did I miss it?

The novelization by Wolfman was based on the script and it clearly identifies that the crook was not to use the gun until a very specific time which was set by the mysterious person who left it there - Lex Luthor

 

[Rob-el]

Wasnt Kitty's rampaging car the distraction for Luthor robbing the museum? It may have been in the script but it wasnt in the movie so i just thought it was a random bank robbery.

The robbery and the car were both set up by Luthor as a double distraction - Superman would go to the incidents where life was at risk first -the bank robbery with the gun and the car out of control - before a non-violent thef at a museum.

 

[afan]

Some criminals are bolder(or more desperate) than others, this is a certainty, some even would be even more eager to commit a crime if Superman was there (the daredevil types). But most criminals would be scared off by the fact that Superman was around, non of them want to get caught or go to prison, but i bet it bothers some a lot more than others if they do.

Some people are bolder and more desperate than others, this is true of all of us.

Once again thank you for supporting my position

As you state, with certainty, bold crimes occurr, even under the threat of Superman. Now wouldn't just one of those crimes, to which Superman failed to respond, open the fearless floodgates of felonius assaults.

 

[afan]

Super-bats, I love your ideas, tho it would be a lot of story to cram into one film, however it could be the stuff of an epic film trilogy!

Superman the departure, Superman the journey home,
Superman the homecoming.

 

[X Knight]

thanks, afan. I mean, the current ideas in SR could have worked better if they had more dialogue and scenes which FLESHED THE IDEAS OUT BETTER.

In the Donner Cut of S2, one of the "new" scenes is the one where a powerless Superman is in the FOS, asking his father for help. That scene and the dialogue with Jor-El was very powerful and sad. It showed a Superman who was remorseful and who realized that he made a HUGE MISTAKE ( THAT HE MADE OF HIS OWN FREE WILL ). And, with Jor-El giving up his powers forever to restore superman's, it also showed the terrible price Superman had to pay to get his powers back.

Now, imagine if we had a similar scene in SR.

For example, we could have had Supes in the empty, lifeless FOS, trying to talk to his father ( whose no longer there cuz Lex stole the crystals ). In his speech, Supes would admit his terrible mistake ( THAT HE MADE OF HIS OWN FREE WILL ), that he let down Jor-el, his adopted parents, earth, even Lois. That in his vain search for other like him ( including Jor-el and Lara, his real parents ), he's lost everything that is dear to him on earth. And, now, he can't even talk to the AI Jor-El cuz his nemesis stole his crystals.

Y'know, SR needed a scene that would really drive the point home and show Supes is really remorseful and sad and lost.

And, for me, that's what SR lacked. It lacked that "OOMPH" factor that really made you feel for the characters. It was like....Superman comes back....and BOOM, BOOM, BOOM,......we go from one plot point to another. IOW, they didn't take time to actually reflect on the whole premise of superman leaving......

And, sadly, they could have probably accomplished if they had just added a few more scenes and dialogue to flesh out the ideas they were trying to present.

I still don't like the KID though........lol

 

[FlawlessVictory]

thanks, afan. I mean, the current ideas in SR could have worked better if they had more dialogue and scenes which FLESHED THE IDEAS OUT BETTER.

In the Donner Cut of S2, one of the "new" scenes is the one where a powerless Superman is in the FOS, asking his father for help. That scene and the dialogue with Jor-El was very powerful and sad. It showed a Superman who was remorseful and who realized that he made a HUGE MISTAKE. And, with Jor-El giving up his powers forever to restore superman's, it also showed the terrible price Superman had to pay to get his powers back.

Now, imagine if we had a similar scene in SR.

For example, we could have had Supes in the empty, lifeless FOS, trying to talk to his father ( whose no longer there cuz Lex stole the crystals ). In his speech, Supes would admit his terrible mistake, that he let down Jor-el, his adopted parents, earth, even Lois. That in his vain search for other like him ( including Jor-el and Lara, his real parents ), he's lost everything that is dear to him on earth. And, now, he can't even talk to the AI Jor-El.

Y'know, SR needed a scene that would really drive the point home and show Supes is really remorseful and sad and lost.

And, for me, that's what SR lacked. It lacked that "OOMPH" factor that really made you feel for the characters. And, sadly, they could have probably accomplished if they had just added a few more scenes and dialogue to flesh out the ideas they were trying to present.

I still don't like the KID though........lol

Well said, I concur! I think the movie needed to be fleshed out with a little more dialogue but some will argue that Singer is just being subtle with certain parts of the film. Your description of a scene that could have been made for SR sounds great, I would have loved to see something like that. That would have been very powerful and moving. Sadly, I didn't feel too much for these characters either. All the emotional problems that Superman had to face/is facing has been brought about himself. So, it's hard to feel sorry for someone when they basically created the problem. And Lois was too beyotchy at times in the movie so it's hard too feel anything for her. And, I still don't like the kid either...t:

 

[Rob-el]

thanks, afan. I mean, the current ideas in SR could have worked better if they had more dialogue and scenes which FLESHED THE IDEAS OUT BETTER.

In the Donner Cut of S2, one of the "new" scenes is the one where a powerless Superman is in the FOS, asking his father for help. That scene and the dialogue with Jor-El was very powerful and sad. It showed a Superman who was remorseful and who realized that he made a HUGE MISTAKE ( THAT HE MADE OF HIS OWN FREE WILL ). And, with Jor-El giving up his powers forever to restore superman's, it also showed the terrible price Superman had to pay to get his powers back.

Now, imagine if we had a similar scene in SR.

For example, we could have had Supes in the empty, lifeless FOS, trying to talk to his father ( whose no longer there cuz Lex stole the crystals ). In his speech, Supes would admit his terrible mistake ( THAT HE MADE OF HIS OWN FREE WILL ), that he let down Jor-el, his adopted parents, earth, even Lois. That in his vain search for other like him ( including Jor-el and Lara, his real parents ), he's lost everything that is dear to him on earth. And, now, he can't even talk to the AI Jor-El cuz his nemesis stole his crystals.

Y'know, SR needed a scene that would really drive the point home and show Supes is really remorseful and sad and lost.

And, for me, that's what SR lacked. It lacked that "OOMPH" factor that really made you feel for the characters. It was like....Superman comes back....and BOOM, BOOM, BOOM,......we go from one plot point to another. IOW, they didn't take time to actually reflect on the whole premise of superman leaving......

And, sadly, they could have probably accomplished if they had just added a few more scenes and dialogue to flesh out the ideas they were trying to present.

I still don't like the KID though........lol

One of the big disappointments fro me with the movie was the lack of useage of Jor-el. I thought that when Singer negiotiated the use of his likeness and the unused footage they were going to use the Jor-el suicide scene in the movie and it could have been the scene that you identify as lacking. But once Warner green lit the Donner cut of Superman II obviously the footage was not going to be used in this capacity. I wonder if Singer and writers had intended to use the footage and then had it pulled because it could have been adapted to this movie in a number of ways.

 

[Rob-el]

Double post - oops

 

[afan]

Even the whole lack of announcement could have been quickly explained, within the framework of SR's story, while enhancing the Luthor character........

A scientist or team of scientists( under Luthor's influence / control) convinces Superman of the existance of Kryptonian survivors.

The nature of Kryptonian space flight propulsion, using exact alignment of gravitational fields, worm holes, etc. demands a hasty departure by Superman, any delay would be catastrophic.

Superman leaves his farewell explanation for the world with the scientist. The farewell speech is turned over to Luthor. At that point he might destroy it or for later dramatic purposes(Lois discovers it after Superman's return)store it away.

SR was chock full of lazy un-creative writing.

 

[X Knight]

yah.......Lois was rather b***y, especially to Clark......

but then, I suppose if you were abandoned by your super hero boyfriend, had to go through pregnancy with an alien/human hybrid growing in your womb, and then had to raise the kid for 5+.........you'd probably be a little b***y too......

 

[X Knight]

great idea afan........I'm disappointed they took out the plot point of Lex and Stanford being responsible for the whole Krypton story. That would have made Lex even more cruel and villainous..........and, again, just ONE PIECE OF EXTRA DIALOGUE........

and, yes, SR was full of un-creative writing, or bad editing, or both.....

 

[Showtime]

The robbery and the car were both set up by Luthor as a double distraction - Superman would go to the incidents where life was at risk first -the bank robbery with the gun and the car out of control - before a non-violent thef at a museum.

Based on the script is the key phrase, Wolfman created that connection himself. The robbery was not set up by Luthor relative to the movie or the script. Wolfman used his own creative license to make that connection.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Based on the script is the key phrase, Wolfman created that connection himself. The robbery was not set up by Luthor relative to the movie or the script. Wolfman used his own creative license to make that connection.

Oddly enough i came to that conclusion just watching it in the cinema,i thought it was unwritten but the audience was meant to guess that Lex had set both up......I even told my mom that was the case when we watched it last week

 

[Showtime]

At first glance I thought it was actually Luthor's henchmen the first time I saw it, besides that I never thought there was a connection.

To me it was just a scene to show how Superman detects danger by hovering over earth or in the sky, a twist on the classic bullets bouncing off the chest, and later a foundation for the eye shot.

Originally the script called for the reinforcements to arrive and find the two security guards on the roof and all the bank robbers tied up in the blades of the helicopter, making it seem as if the guards did it, but I dont believe this was ever shot.

 

[X Knight]

actually, I thought they were connected to Lex too, as another distraction, along with Kitty......

I'm taking that both the shooting and Kitty's car took place in Metropolis?

i think that that's kind of weird in that Supes was in Metropolis, then flew up into space and listened for danger, then flew down to stop the shooting.....which happened to be in Metropolis.........

 

[afan]

great idea afan........I'm disappointed they took out the plot point of Lex and Stanford being responsible for the whole Krypton story. That would have made Lex even more cruel and villainous..........and, again, just ONE PIECE OF EXTRA DIALOGUE........

and, yes, SR was full of un-creative writing, or bad editing, or both.....

Thanks.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Once again thank you for supporting my position

As you state, with certainty, bold crimes occurr, even under the threat of Superman. Now wouldn't just one of those crimes, to which Superman failed to respond, open the fearless floodgates of felonius assaults.

But Superman didnt fail to stop them, and as i said earlier it was his first day back, not everyone will have got the news of his return. Plus that bank robbery would have taken weeks to plan, so i doubt they were going to abandon it so easily. However if Superman was around, they probably wouldnt have planned it at all.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

thanks, afan. I mean, the current ideas in SR could have worked better if they had more dialogue and scenes which FLESHED THE IDEAS OUT BETTER.

In the Donner Cut of S2, one of the "new" scenes is the one where a powerless Superman is in the FOS, asking his father for help. That scene and the dialogue with Jor-El was very powerful and sad. It showed a Superman who was remorseful and who realized that he made a HUGE MISTAKE ( THAT HE MADE OF HIS OWN FREE WILL ). And, with Jor-El giving up his powers forever to restore superman's, it also showed the terrible price Superman had to pay to get his powers back.

Now, imagine if we had a similar scene in SR.

For example, we could have had Supes in the empty, lifeless FOS, trying to talk to his father ( whose no longer there cuz Lex stole the crystals ). In his speech, Supes would admit his terrible mistake ( THAT HE MADE OF HIS OWN FREE WILL ), that he let down Jor-el, his adopted parents, earth, even Lois. That in his vain search for other like him ( including Jor-el and Lara, his real parents ), he's lost everything that is dear to him on earth. And, now, he can't even talk to the AI Jor-El cuz his nemesis stole his crystals.

Y'know, SR needed a scene that would really drive the point home and show Supes is really remorseful and sad and lost.

And, for me, that's what SR lacked. It lacked that "OOMPH" factor that really made you feel for the characters. It was like....Superman comes back....and BOOM, BOOM, BOOM,......we go from one plot point to another. IOW, they didn't take time to actually reflect on the whole premise of superman leaving......

And, sadly, they could have probably accomplished if they had just added a few more scenes and dialogue to flesh out the ideas they were trying to present.

I still don't like the KID though........lol

But Superman did realise he made a mistake in SR "I'm sorry i left you Lois." AND he makes sure he doesnt make the same mistake again, when he leaves the sea-plane to go back to NK, and he doesnt think he's coming back, he says "Bye Lois."