Superman Returns Superman II Donner Cut & Superman Returns

[Sam]

I just saw Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut.

It is an AMAZING movie! Theatrical version is great, but Donner cut is beyond anything i could imagine. Is truly amazing!

There is great action, character development, and Supermasn is 100% reliable.

I see a lot of ppl discussing how to make Superman reliable and relevant for today audience, specially after Superman Returns. Well, Superman II is all that. That proves this movie is a classic and that it is possible to make a great Superman movie that everyone will enjoy to watch.

And it even make SR more plausible as a sequel on certain aspects (on donner cut, Clark and Lois sleep together while he still has powers). On other ones, not (like Superman destroying Fortress, what really got me off guard. I like that in movies). I like SR, but i think it could be much better if they follow original script, not cutting everything they did on final version. I really believe the final cut is one of the flaws of the movie.

So, there it is. Incredible and amazing movie. Just hire ppl with good idea and pation for this character, and they will be able to create something big. Because the character is still big.

- Sam

 

[Clark Kent]

I recommend that this thread be closed, simply because it's been here for eight days and no one has bothered replying, 'til now, of course.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I just saw Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut.

It is an AMAZING movie! Theatrical version is great, but Donner cut is beyond anything i could imagine. Is truly amazing!

There is great action, character development, and Supermasn is 100% reliable.

I see a lot of ppl discussing how to make Superman reliable and relevant for today audience, specially after Superman Returns. Well, Superman II is all that. That proves this movie is a classic and that it is possible to make a great Superman movie that everyone will enjoy to watch.

And it even make SR more plausible as a sequel on certain aspects (on donner cut, Clark and Lois sleep together while he still has powers). On other ones, not (like Superman destroying Fortress, what really got me off guard. I like that in movies). I like SR, but i think it could be much better if they follow original script, not cutting everything they did on final version. I really believe the final cut is one of the flaws of the movie.

So, there it is. Incredible and amazing movie. Just hire ppl with good idea and pation for this character, and they will be able to create something big. Because the character is still big.

- Sam

Umm...Superman turns back time in the Donner Cut of Superman II, thus the kid could not have been conceived since them having sex would also have been nulified (as would him destroying the fortress, actually since he does that before he turns back time).

 

[El Payaso]

I just saw Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut.

It is an AMAZING movie! Theatrical version is great, but Donner cut is beyond anything i could imagine. Is truly amazing!

There is great action, character development, and Supermasn is 100% reliable.

I see a lot of ppl discussing how to make Superman reliable and relevant for today audience, specially after Superman Returns. Well, Superman II is all that. That proves this movie is a classic and that it is possible to make a great Superman movie that everyone will enjoy to watch.

And it even make SR more plausible as a sequel on certain aspects (on donner cut, Clark and Lois sleep together while he still has powers). On other ones, not (like Superman destroying Fortress, what really got me off guard. I like that in movies). I like SR, but i think it could be much better if they follow original script, not cutting everything they did on final version. I really believe the final cut is one of the flaws of the movie.

So, there it is. Incredible and amazing movie. Just hire ppl with good idea and pation for this character, and they will be able to create something big. Because the character is still big.

- Sam

In here, Superman has an atipical side, where his personal feelings and life contrast with his mission and good drama and conflict starts.

Kal-El/Superman: My attachment... umm... the feelings which i have developed for a certain human being have deeply effected me father...
Jor-El: You cannot serve humanity by investing your time and emotion in one human being at the expense of the rest... the concepts are mutually exclusive.
Kal-El/Superman: [takes a deep breath] And... if i no longer want to serve humanity...
Jor-El: Is this how you repay their gratitude... by abandoning the week... the defensless... the needyfull... for the sake of your selfish pursuits...
Kal-El/Superman: [angry] Selfish? After all i've done for them? Will there ever come a time when i've served enough? At least they get a chance for happiness... i only ask as much... no more...
Jor-El: Yours is a half happiness... the fullfillment of your mission... the insperation... you must have... you must have felt that happiness within you... my son... surely you cannot deny that feeling...
Kal-El/Superman: No... i cannot... anymore than i deny the other which is stronger in me father... so much stronger...
Kal-El/Superman: Is there no way then father? Must i be denied the one thing in life that i truely desire?
Jor-El: If you will not be Kal-El... if you will live as one of them... love their kind as one of them... then it follows... that you must become one of them...
Jor-El: [Jor-El disappears and a crystal chamber emerges, he reappears closer to Kal-El] This crystal chamber has in it the harnessed rays of the red sun of Krypton... once exposed to them all you great powers on Earth will disappear... forever... once this is done their is no going back... you will feel like an ordinary man... and you can be harmed like an ordinary man...
Jor-El: [Kal-El steps towards the chamber] Think Kal-El... i beg you...
Kal-El/Superman: [points as if to warn] Father... I love her...
Jor-El: [last words] Think Kal-El...
[Kal-El ignores his fathers last plea and enters the chamber, the fortress glows red inside as Jor-El gives a condemning stare at Lois who is watching overhead]

IMO, this is the kind of Superman we got from SR.

 

[Clark Kent]

OK, the thread stays then, I guess. For now anyway.

Umm...Superman turns back time in the Donner Cut of Superman II, thus the kid could not have been conceived since them having sex would also have been nulified (as would him destroying the fortress, actually since he does that before he turns back time).

There are a lot of inconsistencies between the continuity of Superman Returns and the theatrical cut of Superman II, of course.

 

[Spider-Fan]

OK, the thread stays then, I guess. For now anyway.



There are a lot of inconsistencies between the continuity of Superman Returns and the theatrical cut of Superman II, of course.

Inconsistancies from both Lester's Superman II and Donner's Superman II and SR exist.

 

[charl_huntress]

LOL...I still haven't seen the Donner cut. I hear it might make me like SR, so I'm boycotting that too.

Though...I'm going to cross the picket in my mind to see what it's all about. Why not???? I haven't even unwrapped my SR boxset )

 

[Spider-Fan]

The Donner Cut of Superman II is great (I just wish he could have made a new ending for it). But, it in no way makes me like SR more. I still hate it just as much as I did before I saw the Donner Cut

 

[charl_huntress]

Thank you...I just slipped that puppy into the DVD.

Pray for me

 

[Spider-Fan]

Thank you...I just slipped that puppy into the DVD.

Pray for me

Glad to help...enjoy

:begins prayer:

t:

 

[charl_huntress]

Spider-Fan, thanks for the pray. I did watch the movie, and thankfully my SR hate only increases

Seriously, I couldn't really get into it. I noticed the new scenes, but...well. It's too late now. The Lester cut has already been etched into my mind.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Spider-Fan, thanks for the pray. I did watch the movie, and thankfully my SR hate only increases

Seriously, I couldn't really get into it. I noticed the new scenes, but...well. It's too late now. The Lester cut has already been etched into my mind.

The Lester Cut is the one that we all grew up on and remember most, sadly

Though the new Donner footage showed us what Superman II could have been had the Salkinds not been vindictive jerks. Those new Jor-El scenes are amazing, imo. If only Donner could have given us the story he intended to all those years ago, rather than leaving his story to be finished by inferior creative talent.

And welcome for the prayer. Glad I still have a fellow anti-SR crusader in these parts

 

[charl_huntress]

The Lester Cut is the one that we all grew up on and remember most, sadly

VERY TRUE! I actually watched the movie a few times. It was wierd because I wasn't sure what I would see. I remembered the cuts from the INTL version, but none of that stuck in my mind. I found it hard to separate the two visions into two distinct movies. I think you are a right about the ending though. That may have been why I couldn't find the division...in the end

Though the new Donner footage showed us what Superman II could have been had the Salkinds not been vindictive jerks. Those new Jor-El scenes are amazing, imo. If only Donner could have given us the story he intended to all those years ago, rather than leaving his story to be finished by inferior creative talent.

Yeah, I totally agree here. Donner had a serious vision, and I think the fact his Kryptonian version of Jor-El is the most prevalent today means something. UGH....again all this division and sacrafice led to SR, and it galls me that it had to be this way. There has to be someone out there who can portray a "new" Superman correctly. Donner cannot go down as the only person capable of doing this right.

And welcome for the prayer. Glad I still have a fellow anti-SR crusader in these parts

Buggs is the true hero. I'm trying to be like him t:

 

[Spider-Fan]

VERY TRUE! I actually watched the movie a few times. It was wierd because I wasn't sure what I would see. I remembered the cuts from the INTL version, but none of that stuck in my mind. I found it hard to separate the two visions into two distinct movies. I think you are a right about the ending though. That may have been why I couldn't find the division...in the end

I really feel the Donner Cut suffers from ending like S:TM. I know that was supposed to end Superman II before the reshot the ending to S:TM, but still. Also, we can't completely dump the stink of Lester's poor additions to the film.

Yeah, I totally agree here. Donner had a serious vision, and I think the fact his Kryptonian version of Jor-El is the most prevalent today means something. UGH....again all this division and sacrafice led to SR, and it galls me that it had to be this way. There has to be someone out there who can portray a "new" Superman correctly. Donner cannot go down as the only person capable of doing this right.

Brando is who I imagine/think of when I remember Jor-El to this day. I know they saved a bundle by not putting him into the theatrical Superman II, but again all Lester does is create inconsistancies with S:TM by having other Council members in the crystals (wasn't Jor-El going to be arrested for making them in the first place? So WHY WOULD THEY HELP HIM!!!). Lara being the person on all the crystals I could have let go, but they had to put other members in there too.

And I also agree on the sacrafice in SR. In S:TM, I am sad and touched when Jor-El jets Kal-El into space. In the Donner Cut, Jor-El's hologram again sacraficing himself out of love for his son actually made me cry. Those got to me. When Superman is falling to the Earth in SR, I felt boredom. It meant nothing to me. I didn't care if he got out of the hospital or not. Did singer learn nothing about sacrafice in S:TM? Apparently not, since his Superman's sacrifice is meaningless. There were a ton of ways I could think to fix it, but sadly it is not meant to be.

I don't fully blame Routh for SR's poor and boring Superman. The script really didn't give him much to work with, either. It was a collaboration of suckage. Reeve and Donner are not the only people who can do Superman, I totally agree. It is just sad that WB is clueless on how to replace them almost 30 years after S:TM.

Buggs is the true hero. I'm trying to be like him t:

Buggs is certainly committed to the effort. It is funny, before SR, I never knew I could be so mad over a movie sucking. I used to get on people for complaining about something they hated months and months onward, until the day I was put into their shoes. Now I completely get it.

 

[charl_huntress]

I really feel the Donner Cut suffers from ending like S:TM. I know that was supposed to end Superman II before the reshot the ending to S:TM, but still. Also, we can't completely dump the stink of Lester's poor additions to the film.

Donner wanted to give himself an out when dealing with Lois and Clark. I think he recognized it was the true thing about the hero everyone understands. Superman/Clark loves a woman who doesn't love him...in the beginning. That will always be definable and presentable to the GA. However, as for Lester, I can't really separate his movie from the Donner cut because his cut is what I remember best. I liked seeing the Donner cut, but it doesn't do anything for me as a Superman fan. IMO, it's just another version of Superman II.

Brando is who I imagine/think of when I remember Jor-El to this day. I know they saved a bundle by not putting him into the theatrical Superman II, but again all Lester does is create inconsistancies with S:TM by having other Council members in the crystals (wasn't Jor-El going to be arrested for making them in the first place? So WHY WOULD THEY HELP HIM!!!). Lara being the person on all the crystals I could have let go, but they had to put other members in there too.

These inconsistencies don't bother me much...but again...I don't remember them as heartily.

Overall, this movie didn't do anything to for me. It's just a different cut of SII.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Donner wanted to give himself an out when dealing with Lois and Clark. I think he recognized it was the true thing about the hero everyone understands. Superman/Clark loves a woman who doesn't love him...in the beginning. That will always be definable and presentable to the GA. However, as for Lester, I can't really separate his movie from the Donner cut because his cut is what I remember best. I liked seeing the Donner cut, but it doesn't do anything for me as a Superman fan. IMO, it's just another version of Superman II.




These inconsistencies don't bother me much...but again...I don't remember them as heartily.

Overall, this movie didn't do anything to for me. It's just a different cut of SII.

I see what you're saying. It shares many similarities to Lester's, but I see enough in Donner's Cut to feel him finishing it would have made a far better film than what Lester gave us.

 

[X Knight]

I watched the Donner Cut.....and it further reminded me how crappy SR was!!

That one scene where Clark/Kal-El is talking to Jor-El and telling him he made a mistake giving up his powers.....and then Jor-El sacrificing his remaining "energy" to restore Superman's powers......that had more emotion than any scene in SR.

Plus.....it made better usage of the line....."The son becomes the father....the father becomes the son...." ( or however it goes ).

 

[Clark Kent]

Glad I still have a fellow anti-SR crusader in these parts

You have one in me too.

To quote another crapfest by the Salkinds, "One for all, and all for one."

 

[Dr. Fate]

I too strongly dislike SR. SR makes me all the more glad that Chris Nolan rebooted Batman instead of trying to mimic the Tim Burton style.