Sequels Would you be okay with Venom sans symbiote in a sequel?

[Venom'sDad]

Not unless they "Re-invent" his entire being.

 

[Godzilla2014]

In the Ultimate series, he was kind of like a darker version of Peter, which is exactly what he was in the movie.

EDIT: I got mixed up on something

True, but Sam Raimi didn't use their fathers as colleagues backstory in the film. Also, Ultimate Eddie Brock was far less of a delusional cartoon than SM3 Eddie was.

 

[VenomSpawn]

True, but Sam Raimi didn't use their fathers as colleagues backstory in the film. Also, Ultimate Eddie Brock was far less of a delusional cartoon than SM3 Eddie was.

Let's just say that SM3 Eddie was 616 Eddie with a dash of Ultimate Eddie on the side..

 

[Godzilla2014]

Let's just say that SM3 Eddie was 616 Eddie with a dash of Ultimate Eddie on the side..

If by "dash", you mean the name.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Not just the name. The look of Eddie Brock, Jr. was more of Ultimate as well, imo.

 

[Spiderman6592]

It isn't a cancer suit. If people took the time to read, they'd know that "The Suit" was a type of protoplasmic medical genetic bodysuit that would enhance the body to kill any type of defect by finding natural compounds within the body to fight it off. It take's hold of the host's complete biological structure (much like the alien symbiote, but actually for a reason) which is why it reacts differently to Eddie and Peter. In order for the suit to know what it needs to attack, it needs to access the brain. Without it finished and refined however, the suit is able to pick up on other characteristics, such as greed or a general need for power.

In USM, Peter and Eddie's fathers were developing the suit and had managed to get as far as being able to make the suit enhance the physical strength of the patient's natural abilities. When the heads of the company (Norman, Trask) found out they had developed a suit that was able to enhance the strength of a human being, they wanted to use it strictly as military weaponry. Peter and Eddie's fathers were killed before they could develop it further.

It's not very hard to understand. Sure it sounds stupid when you write it off as a "suit that cures cancer", but when you actually think about it, it makes more sense than some random, inanimate, alien goo taking over someone's body.

And it doesn't name itself Venom. Peter and Eddie's dads codenamed it the "Venom Project" to mask what it truly was. Reading is a wonderful thing.


Posted this in the Sequel Villains thread. Thought I'd go ahead and put it in here too.

 

[DACrowe]

Venom will be in one of the sequels. And this is how it will play out:

Ahem...

Peter + obsessed with dead parents = Sony's The Amazing Spider-Man (x)

Peter + dead father making symbiote as Venom's origin = Marvel's Ultimate Spider-Man (y)

x + y = ASM sequel in which Peter finds dead dad's symbiote wears it for five minutes and it lands on emo kid in class, Eddie Brock Jr.

Too bad we probably won't get KLH because of this.

 

[DACrowe]

In the Ultimate series, he was kind of like a darker version of Peter, which is exactly what he was in the movie.

EDIT: I got mixed up on something

I'm gonna' be honest that in theory SM3's iteration combined all the best elements of Venom's origin. Eddie Brock being Peter's rival and doppleganger (a la USM), Peter/Spidey under symbiote influence screwing Brock out of his job at the Bugle and reputation in NYC (TAS), the symbiote turning Spidey dark (TAS), church birth (616, TAS), and the suit being alien (616).

However, the execution was crap because he was crammed in there and Raimi clearly cared little for the character which left Brock underdeveloped, Venom's screentime feeling rushed and forced in and a completely awful interpretation of dark Spider-Man.

Oh well.

 

[Troy_Parker]

Whereas I liked the cancer suit in the comics... it doesn't really make sense.

Why would it look like this huge, freaking monster?

The alien origin has always been a little cooler, as cliched as it is.

It explains its look too.

 

[Victarion]

No one likes cancer suit..why make it a cancer suit. Make it a bio-weapon Peter's father and Eddie's father were forced to manufacture in order to be given the funds to carry out the research Peter's father was originally interested in. Afterward, Peter's father was bitter and went back and tampered with their finished product. His last-minute experimenting gave the suit a more assertive and vicious and controlling personality toward its host.

Why's Peter's father bitter? Dunno, opens possibilities for storyline though without bein a sloppy retcon.

 

[Spiderman6592]

Whereas I liked the cancer suit in the comics... it doesn't really make sense.

Why would it look like this huge, freaking monster?

The alien origin has always been a little cooler, as cliched as it is.

It explains its look too.

I recommend you read my post a few posts up. It makes perfect sense.

The suit reacts to how the host feels, and reacts to its needs and wants. Eddie's thirst for power and dominance makes the suit the way it is.

 

[webhead9707]

So, I just had a thought, what if in the first movie, oscorp offers peter an interview for an internship or something after he gets bit by the spider, and in the second, he meets eddie brock at oscorp, and they work together on the venom suit ending up with venom in the second film, and then in the third you have goblin. an easy way to have all the villians come from oscorp.

 

[DACrowe]

I think you're probably right. Albeit, GG/Death of Gwen Stacy may be in TASM2 with Venom used in the third...again.

Fun thought: most of the people here who hate the Raimi movies complained how Doc Ock worked at Oscorp and all the villains knew Peter, came from his life, etc.

The Lizard, Green Goblin and Venom are going to completely repeat that device that so many pissed and moaned about. But if it has a dark tone, maybe they won't nitpick? Should be interesting.

 

[Anno_Domini]

I think you're probably right. Albeit, GG/Death of Gwen Stacy may be in TASM2 with Venom used in the third...again.

Fun thought: most of the people here who hate the Raimi movies complained how Doc Ock worked at Oscorp and all the villains knew Peter, came from his life, etc.

The Lizard, Green Goblin and Venom are going to completely repeat that device that so many pissed and moaned about. But if it has a dark tone, maybe they won't nitpick? Should be interesting.

Lizard, GG and Venom are obvious villains to know Peter Parker. Doc Ock is not, imo, and that's one thing that bugged me. Not that he worked at OsCorp but that he had a close relationship with Peter which should not be, imo. GG made sense and Venom made sense, but then Raimi did the same thing with Sandman with having it tied up to Peter in one way and it was a very poorly-executed way.

 

[Spiderman6592]

I think you're probably right. Albeit, GG/Death of Gwen Stacy may be in TASM2 with Venom used in the third...again.

Fun thought: most of the people here who hate the Raimi movies complained how Doc Ock worked at Oscorp and all the villains knew Peter, came from his life, etc.

The Lizard, Green Goblin and Venom are going to completely repeat that device that so many pissed and moaned about. But if it has a dark tone, maybe they won't nitpick? Should be interesting.

People *****ed about Doc Ock knowing Peter because it was a needless retcon, just like Sandman being UB's killer was. Dr. Conners, Norman Osborn and Eddie Brock have always and will always know Peter before their transformations so there wouldn't be a need to complain.

Thanks for playing.

 

[DACrowe]

People *****ed about Doc Ock knowing Peter because it was a needless retcon, just like Sandman being UB's killer was. Dr. Conners, Norman Osborn and Eddie Brock have always and will always know Peter before their transformations so there wouldn't be a need to complain.

Thanks for playing.

Actually in 616, the original Venom/Eddie had never met Peter Parker once in his life before getting the suit. Peter didn't even know who Eddie Brock was when Venom revealed his identity and needed Brock to give him a Dr. Evil-esque explanation as to why he is so obsessed with Spider-Man and to explain the thunderstruck luck he had to be in the church the night Peter ditched the symbiote.

Also, Doc Ock knowing Peter was not needless as you say, because it felt organic (unlike Sandman) and nicely developed the character. When Roger Ebert only remembers Heath Ledger and Alfred Molina as the best superhero villains, you know they did something right. If it makes for a good (or in SM2's case, great) movie, who cares?

As I said it was a nitpick. And I wonder if the same ones will whine when at least three of Spidey's villains (who may be his only three) in this franchise all know Peter Parker and are connected to him. Talk about repeating what Raimi already did....

Thanks for playing.

 

[Spiderman6592]

Sorry, I should have been clear about meaning Ultimate Eddie Brock had known Peter since, you know, we're in a thread in which we are discussing Ultimate Eddie Brock being in a sequel...



And it wouldn't be repeating what Raimi did.

Repeating what Raimi did would be making Electro a hired assassin who was the one that killed Peter's parents. And then having Mac Gargan a former scientist that worked with Peter's parents who then was tested on by Norman Osborn and made into the Scorpion.


Nice try though.

 

[TheSlag]

I recommend you read my post a few posts up. It makes perfect sense.

The suit reacts to how the host feels, and reacts to its needs and wants. Eddie's thirst for power and dominance makes the suit the way it is.

Exactly. Just like the symbiote enhances those same attributes/emotions, it is just as believable through gene splicing or enhancing.. the suit could do the same. And it could be more unstable on the more unstable host.. again, just like the symbiote.

 

[Spiderman6592]

Exactly, as I've said time and time again:


It's smooth and sleek and relaxed on Peter because he is used to power and has an ability to manipulate and control it. Eddie has no such ability. It's easy to see how it would get out of control

Think of it as a sickness, if you get sick (in this case the suit attaching to you), and you treat it (like Peter's ability to maintain control) it will remain under control and eventually go away. If you get sick (the suit) and avoid treating it (Eddie's inability to control) it will amplify and get you sicker (the suit getting out of hand).

It's not a very hard thing to understand.

 

[DACrowe]

Sorry, I should have been clear about meaning Ultimate Eddie Brock had known Peter since, you know, we're in a thread in which we are discussing Ultimate Eddie Brock being in a sequel...



And it wouldn't be repeating what Raimi did.

Repeating what Raimi did would be making Electro a hired assassin who was the one that killed Peter's parents. And then having Mac Gargan a former scientist that worked with Peter's parents who then was tested on by Norman Osborn and made into the Scorpion.


Nice try though.

Last time I checked Oscorp (and by proxy Norman Osborn) had nothing to do with Peter's parents' deaths. We don't even know yet if they're going to reveal who carried out the murders.

I'm actually (mildly) looking forward to this new film if for nothing more than a wiseass Spidey and the Lizard. But seeing the double standards Raimi-haters are already establishing is humoring.

 

[Spiderman6592]

Last time I checked Oscorp (and by proxy Norman Osborn) had nothing to do with Peter's parents' deaths. We don't even know yet if they're going to reveal who carried out the murders.

I'm actually (mildly) looking forward to this new film if for nothing more than a wiseass Spidey and the Lizard. But seeing the double standards Raimi-haters are already establishing is humoring.

I like how you're criticizing the "double standards" we hold while still making ones of your own. It's humorous.

As you said, it's never really revealed who really kills Richard and Mary Parker unlike the fact that is made very clear that Dennis Carradine kills Ben Parker, not Flint Marko. If Osborn did end up responsible for Richard and Mary Parker's disappearance in the films, it wouldn't be a retcon as much as a new development in an uncovered story. Big difference.

 

[DACrowe]

I like the "new development" is used her but the term "retcon" is used for Raimi. Both are changing how things happened in the comics to make a villain (or more) attached to Peter's earliest origins in a way they've never been in the comics. It's actually more like The Joker killing Batman's parents in B'89. And you know what? That didn't ruin that movie for me. Not in the slightest. But fans who pick favorites can be far harsher on such changes when it isn't something they've already decided is great without seeing.

 

[Spiderman6592]

I like the "new development" is used her but the term "retcon" is used for Raimi. Both are changing how things happened in the comics to make a villain (or more) attached to Peter's earliest origins in a way they've never been in the comics. It's actually more like The Joker killing Batman's parents in B'89. And you know what? That didn't ruin that movie for me. Not in the slightest. But fans who pick favorites can be far harsher on such changes when it isn't something they've already decided is great without seeing.

A retcon is when something is rewritten. Osborn being responsible for the death of Pete's parents wouldn't be a rewrite. It would be the conception of the first real explanation of their disappearance.

I haven't decided that this movie is great. I've decided that it will be great based on what I've seen and heard. There's a far superior cast and they seem to be going for a tone and story type that I've been wanting to see in a Spider-Man film since the first one came out.

Will the film actually be good? Only time will tell but I like what I see. Didn't know that was such a sin.

 

[T-CLIPSE]

I wanted a man-made Venom suit in Spider-Man 3 from the word go, as far as I'm concerned the alien suit just doesn't fit into the Spider-Man movie world. Spider-Man's movies were built and grounded in the world of science and technology not outer space and extraterrestrial.

Peter got spider powers how?...science,
Norman became the goblin how?...science,
Octavius became Octopus how?...science,
Marko got sand powers how?...science,......

...and then along comes this black space alien goop, it just doesn't fit.

Make Venom a result of scientific technological production intended for military applications which the intended design is to attach to a soldiers nervous system and offers a form of combat protection and regenerative healing capabilities. I would have the design called OPERATION: V.E.N.O.M

Versatile Experimental Nanotech Organic Material

Yeah I know all you Venom fans would hate that but it would make a hell of lot more sense than some damn random meteor dropping out of the sky.

 

[©KAW]

Yeah, I really do think that Venom needs to be re-written with a new story to better both the characters of Brock & Venom.