Wrestling: The Action Soap Opera Thread - Part 14

[Nemi]

Honestly I find the whole ''he can't carry the brand'' thing to be ********. The title hasn't been that important in a long time. John Cena hasn't had the title in about a year but he has not for a second stopped being the company man. All the crap they pull but now suddenly the title can only go to someone that can hold the brand?

 

[Benstamania]

I won't be watching Friday.... Not that me not watching will change anything.

I don't hate Orton, I actually like him... but the moved him to SmackDown to get him out of John Cena's shadow and IF that report is accurate and that's the reason behind Christians loss... then that just proves it.

 

[Benstamania]

Honestly I find the whole ''he can't carry the brand'' thing to be ********. The title hasn't been that important in a long time. John Cena hasn't had the title in about a year but he has not for a second stopped being the company man. All the crap they pull but now suddenly the title can only go to someone that can hold the brand?

Truth.

 

[venom892]

It's bull. Vince just wanted both Cena and Orton as champs. I mean did Vince think Smackdown's ratings would plummet with Christian as Champ when Swagger was a champ who fueded with Show for two months when he was jobbing just a month before?

 

[Metallo]

EXCLUSIVE: Update on CM Punk's Future With WWE

In an update to an earlier report concerning CM Punk's future with the WWE, I have learned that a major issue in the negotiations of CM Punk re-signing with the company is the trademark of his name.

As of now, Vince McMahon and the WWE don't own the name CM Punk. They would like him to sign over the rights to the name which appears to be a hold up in a quick agreement between both sides to continue working together long term.

It appears that CM Punk would like to remain with the WWE but wants to be sure he looks out for himself. As one source told me, "Punk knows that WWE is the secure place for him to be at this point in his career but is a smart business man."

CM Punk is one of the few wrestlers who was well established on the independent circuit and kept his ring name when being signed by the WWE. It is common the WWE gives the performer a name change so they do have ownership and rights to their WWE identity. Bryan Danielson's name being changed to Daniel Bryan is a recent example.

Punk is smart to want to keep his name. He's spent years inside and outside WWE making that name well known. He'd be a fool to sign it away under any circumstances. You never know what the future holds. He could end up quitting WWE and if they kept his name he wouldn't even have that.

Vince basically wants people to sign over EVERYTHING to work for them. Vince didn't even come up with the name CM Punk so for him to want that is just going to far.

The thing that pisses me off most about this is that Christian has been one of WWE's most consistent guys since he's come back. He's was having some great matches during his ECW run, he had better matches with Del Rio than anyone else has to date, and apparently this Smackdown match is the best one Orton has had in a good long while.

You'd think hard work and consistency would be rewarded. Christian is over with fans, can deliver great promos, and can put on great matches. He deserved better than that.

I do feel bad that some fans are pissed with Orton about this though. I doubt it was his idea and even if it was Vince's dumb ass was the one who signed off on it.

Christian was one of the main reasons I watched ECW by the end. in the last year of its existence it was nothing but a WWE C show/glorified developmental. They had stripped away everything unique about it and yet Vince refuses to acknowledge that THAT is why the ratings began to tank. he claimed the old ECW could never be more than it was but when he tried to make the new ECW more like WWE even people tuned out! His plan totally backfired.

Christian busted his a** as a leader on that show. This isn't about WHY Christian lost the strap but why he couldn't get a longer reign. He's not a star that could be THE guy on Smackdown but Christian is more than good enough to be a utility guy like Jericho or a card floater like Foley and both those guys have multiple world titles.

If they could do it I don't see why Christian can't at least hold the world title sometimes even if he isn't a top star.

Credit to www.PWInsider.com

The Christian World title run was never intended to be anything long-term. He was never intended to see if he could draw as champion, rather it was something they forced themselves into. Del Rio was suppose to be champion for awhile before losing the title and then getting drafted to RAW later in the year. With the draft being moved up way early than expected, they were locked into Rio not being the champ and they wanted it to be a feel good moment and more of a sign as a lifetime achievment award for Christian. Vince does not think Christian is someone he can build a brand around.

There is already a lot of heat on Kong/Kharma. Many of the divas are not wanting to work with her out of fear of getting hurt, as Kong recently hurt Alicia Fox in the ring. Folks are wondering how she's going to deal with the politics in WWE, especially since she was known to have outburst backstage frequently in TNA.

The Chyna deal is nothing more than a short term deal for now. She is not signed long term. Her signing is meant to create a freak attraction against the Jarretts, with the idea they'll play off her with great reactions. She's only scheduled through Sacrifice, and possibly Slammiversary.

The Tommy Dreamer turn was a last minute decision. This was a Bischoff idea, nothing Russo pitched. Many think this is a political move by Bischoff and Hogan and a way to deemphasize him politically backstage by giving him a bigger role. Dreamer has been in Dixie's ear in he past and has been in her good graces politically before and as someone who doesn't agree with Hogan and Bischoff. There is also a belief that since his deal will be up soon, they plan to bury him on the way out of the company, just as they did to Rhino.

Like I said a big question is "why shouldn't Christian be given a chance to hold the title even if he isn't a top star?" Kanes not a guy who can carry a brand either but his last WHC reign was deserved and at least had some effort put into it.


Kong may have a a bit of an attitude and that could be a problem but those Barbies being easily breakable is THEIR fault not hers. The problem with the Divas are that most of them aren't tough enough to take serious punishment in the ring and it really shows. Thats one reason their in ring work looks so bad.

Its pro wrestling. Sometimes its going to involve some stiff shots. The women in WWE should already be used to that thanks to Batista.


That news about Dreamer makes me mad. He's the kind of guy Dixie SHOULD be listening to. This whole heel turn is being done for political reasons...lame.

Hopefully Dixie makes it a point to re sign Dreamer even if Hogan and Bischoff are trying to bury him. Those two are being a**holes to try that because they can't admit they don't know everything.

Dreamer should just go directly to Dixie Carter if he wants to stay. He should just plead his case about the problems there. IF he wants to stay. He may want to leave anyway and if he does I can't blame him.

Wouldn't suprise me if they decide to have Orton vs Cena at Summerslam,and unify the title and put it on Cena's waist.This would make the build up to Rock vs Cena much bigger (that's if He is still champ by then)

Man I hope they don't do that. If they're going to unify the titles it should be done at a Wrestlemania since its a BIG deal at this point to do something like that.

Rock vs Cena doesn't really need anything else to be any bigger IMO.

punk doesn't see it as a step down,he is always going to ROH shows whenever possible and hanging backstage,I don't think he will have a problem going back if it ever came to that decision.

I think at this stage in his career he probably wants some financial security and wants to make as much as he can while he can. As Edges injury showed us IF these guys are lucky enough to make it to the top in WWE they already have a lot of mileage on their bodies and their window of opportunity to make a lot of money is SERIOUSLY small.

 

[Metallo]

Honestly I find the whole ''he can't carry the brand'' thing to be ********. The title hasn't been that important in a long time. John Cena hasn't had the title in about a year but he has not for a second stopped being the company man. All the crap they pull but now suddenly the title can only go to someone that can hold the brand?

I agree. I just made the same point too. People have had long reigns who couldn't carry a brand before as that Rock/Austin/Hogan level star.

Benoit, Angle, Foley, Kane...these guys were all great but their reigns were all seen as short term by WWE. None of them were seen as the top dogs in the company. But that didn't stop WWE from giving them all longer reigns than Christian. I mean TWO days? F***.

I'm a huge fan but was Booker T a guy that could carry a brand? Was JBL? Where these guys Cena/Austin/Hogan level stars? No. They were all talented guys who could float between midcard and main event when it suited the story. Christian is no different. He could have held that title for a t least a couple of weeks.

 

[Nemi]

I agree. I just made the same point too. People have had long reigns who couldn't carry a brand before as that Rock/Austin/Hogan level star.

Benoit, Angle, Foley, Kane...these guys were all great but there reigns were all seen as short term by WWE. None of them were seen as the top dogs in the company. But that didn't stop WWE from giving them all longer reigns than Christian. I mean TWO days? F***.

I'm a huge fan but was Booker T a guy that could carry a brand? Was JBL? Where these guys Cena/Austin/Hogan level stars? No. They were all talented guys who could float between midcard and main event when it suited the story. Christian is no different. He could have held that title for a t least a couple of weeks.

Exactly. Not to mention having plans to give Del Rio the title. Do they really think he can do that much better than someone that has been over in the company for years? Plus you could have had the build up to Orton vs Christian for a ppv. I don't think those two have ever wrestled before let alone had a fued over the title. Now he'll probably get moved down in the card again.

As for CM Punk, I agree that at this point he's probably just interested in financial security. He probably also doesn't need much of it. I could be wrong but he doesn't strike me as someone that has a very expensive lifestyle. Isn't he just in a hoodie and jeans on his days off?

 

[Benstamania]

I agree. I just made the same point too. People have had long reigns who couldn't carry a brand before as that Rock/Austin/Hogan level star.

Benoit, Angle, Foley, Kane...these guys were all great but their reigns were all seen as short term by WWE. None of them were seen as the top dogs in the company. But that didn't stop WWE from giving them all longer reigns than Christian. I mean TWO days? F***.

I'm a huge fan but was Booker T a guy that could carry a brand? Was JBL? Where these guys Cena/Austin/Hogan level stars? No. They were all talented guys who could float between midcard and main event when it suited the story. Christian is no different. He could have held that title for a t least a couple of weeks.

This is a main reason why I think the PWI/WrestleZone articles may not be 100% accurate. I mean, they probably know more than I do but I don't see Christian staying out of the WHC picture. I mean, it just doesn't make any sense... unless of course Christian gets a rematch next week and is squashed... Then, ok.

If they don't turn Orton heel.. fine, turn Christian. I'd much rather see that than Orton feuding with Shemus or Mark Henry.

 

[Superark]

At one point, I completely stood by Dixie Carter when Heyman wasn't signed. It was said the only thing they couldn't come to an agreement on was Heyman having the ability to hire and fire whoever he wanted. I thought that was an unreasonable demand from Heyman.

In hindsight, I'm mad now that Dixie did not cave to Heyman because it's clear now that she just has absolutely zero clue how to run her business and the people she's hiring is pathetic. She is ruining her brand and damaging the company's relationship with their loyal audience. All this crap that is going on right now would never have happened on Heyman's watch.


I mean really, you'll fire Jay Lethal and many other talented performers for budget reasons and then hire and spend good money on Chyna and other druggies?
I mean

 

[venom892]

Credit: F4WOnline.com
- According to Dave Meltzer, the original plan for Extreme Rules was for Alberto Del Rio to win the World Title and then lose it to Randy Orton on Smackdown two days later. The change was made to Christian either the day before or the morning of the show.

So it seems they protected Del Rio and this was the plan all along.

 

[Metallo]

At one point, I completely stood by Dixie Carter when Heyman wasn't signed. It was said the only thing they couldn't come to an agreement on was Heyman having the ability to hire and fire whoever he wanted. I thought that was an unreasonable demand from Heyman.

In hindsight, I'm mad now that Dixie did not cave to Heyman because it's clear now that she just has absolutely zero clue how to run her business and the people she's hiring is pathetic. She is ruining her brand and damaging the company's relationship with their loyal audience. All this crap that is going on right now would never have happened on Heyman's watch.


I mean really, you'll fire Jay Lethal and many other talented performers for budget reasons and then hire and spend good money on Chyna and other druggies?
I mean

Eh. I WISH Heyman would have come to TNA and tried to improve it but I still think Heyman was asking to much. Total creative control? Total control over hirings and firings? Partial OWNERSHIP in the company? And this is all Dixie Carters families money on the line? Shouldn't she have had SOME say so? Considering Heyman couldn't offer a guarantee and his own company went out of business she would have been taking a HUGE risk giving Heyman that kind of power.

The guy is a damn good booker but he's also a liar. Even the people that worked for him have said he was a liar and could be two faced.

No promoter in their right mind would have agreed to what Heyman asked...even if their company was failing. What if Heyman had still failed? Dixie would look like an even bigger clueless dope who handed over the keys to the company. Dixies problem right now is that people working for her see her as a mark and don't respect her.

Agreeing to Heymans deal would have gone even further to PROVE she's a mark who has no idea how to navigate the waters of wrestling. And in this day in age Heyman just couldn't give enough of a guarantee that his demands where worth what he was asking.

Even when WWF's business was going into the toilet in the 90's and Vince McMahon thought he was going to freakign prison he never considered giving that much power to Bill Watts or Jerry Jarrett or whoever else he considered bringing in to run WWF. And WWF was getting in pretty bad shape at the time.

 

[Kaleb]

Oh no, I didn't mean he would look at it as a step down as I know he still loves it. I marked out a bit when he was wearing that Colt Cabana shirt on Raw when he was still announcing.

...Which I miss btw.

Most people I know, even wrestling fans never heard of RoH... which is what I meant.

Gotcha

 

[The Sage]

Blaming Orton or Smackdown is going a bit too far but Vince and creative are the ones who make these decisions and they weren't forced to make this one. If EVERY person that was upset by Christian losing the title stopped watching Smackdown for the next few weeks it might have an impact on the ratings and when that happens they have to do something.

That's one of the big problems we have now. No matter how much we hate the things they do we still watch so why would they bother doing anything less than what they want? Whenever they need a ratings boost they just get a celeb or a retired wrestler and call it a day.


http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/article/exclusive-why-wwe-booked-major-angle-on-sd-spoiler-129391


As many of you may now know, the top story on the internet today is the fact that Randy Orton defeated Christian at the Smackdown taping last night to become the new World Heavyweight Champion.
After speaking to several key WWE insiders, WrestleZone can now provide details behind why WWE decided to book this major title change just days after Christian won the title at Extreme Rules.
To begin with, as we exclusively reported several days ago, Randy Orton is set to become the focal point of the Smackdown brand, and the entire Friday night show will be centered around him from both a marketing and creative standpoint. Orton's position on Smackdown can be compared to John Cena's position on Raw, as WWE looks at both talents as the creative centers of their respective brands.
Additionally, we were told that Christian's title win at Extreme Rules was done not so much as a "well deserved win for Christian," but much more so that a big moment could be made for Edge at the PPV. "Vince [McMahon] could smell, touch and taste a moment between Edge and Christian celebrating on PPV, and that's the major reason why Christian was awarded the title." This dispels any conspiracy theories that Christian was awarded the title to keep it on Smackdown, as we were told it would have been very easy for WWE to throw a third party into the Extreme Rules match which would have kept the title off Christian and still on Smackdown.

I wonder how Edge feels about this...

 

[The Sage]

EXCLUSIVE: Update on CM Punk's Future With WWE

In an update to an earlier report concerning CM Punk's future with the WWE, I have learned that a major issue in the negotiations of CM Punk re-signing with the company is the trademark of his name.

As of now, Vince McMahon and the WWE don't own the name CM Punk. They would like him to sign over the rights to the name which appears to be a hold up in a quick agreement between both sides to continue working together long term.

It appears that CM Punk would like to remain with the WWE but wants to be sure he looks out for himself. As one source told me, "Punk knows that WWE is the secure place for him to be at this point in his career but is a smart business man."

CM Punk is one of the few wrestlers who was well established on the independent circuit and kept his ring name when being signed by the WWE. It is common the WWE gives the performer a name change so they do have ownership and rights to their WWE identity. Bryan Danielson's name being changed to Daniel Bryan is a recent example.

The only way I see this ending is Punk getting a deal like the Rock, or something in which there's a deal where he gets to keep his name in and out of the company.

I agree with the PTB in regards to Christian not being the type of guy that you can build a brand around. I love Christian and was happy to see him win the title, but in no way do I see him as a main event level guy.

But dropping the title to Orton on the Smackdown immediately following the PPV is NOT the way to go about it, no matter how much the guy might not be main event material.

You build up a feud and have Christian drop the title at the next PPV if you absolutely have to take the title off of him. That's how you handle a situation where the belt is on a guy that isn't necessarily a main eventer, but for whatever reasons you put the belt on him (due to necessity, as a "thank you" for a good career, or in the case of Christian, for emotional reasons).

I'm really disappointed in WWE treating Christian's title reign in such a poor fashion. And to me it takes away from the moment Christian and Edge had at Extreme Rules.

Totally agree.

 

[Nemi]

What that they used his retirement and his best friend to create a moment only to throw it all alway two days later cause they think his best friend isn't worth ****? I'd imagine that he's pissed and that they know he is but hope he'll forget about it when they call him to make an apperance due to them needing a ratings boost.

 

[BlackLantern]

does it really matter? he's retired

I don't like it much myself, but this is probably going to lead to the WWE and WHC titles switching shows

 

[Metallo]

Credit: F4WOnline.com
- According to Dave Meltzer, the original plan for Extreme Rules was for Alberto Del Rio to win the World Title and then lose it to Randy Orton on Smackdown two days later. The change was made to Christian either the day before or the morning of the show.

So it seems they protected Del Rio and this was the plan all along.

They could have *shock* kept Del Rio on Smackdown and had Christian chase him for the title for a while then move Del Rio to Raw a few months later.

It just seems like WWF is creatively becoming WCW to the point that they can't make up their minds on anything until the last minute. Like WCW

The people favored by management are being protected at the expense or the true talents/workhorses (Punk and Christian) to the point that there is a glass ceiling and some of them are hesitant to stay. Sounds like WCW to me.

Take Drew McIntyre for example. They pushed him because they saw him as a star so they tried to get him over at the expense of others. Yet in the end he couldn't draw flies if he was covered with sh**.

Who Vince does and doesn't see as a star doesn't mean a damn thing to me anymore because its clear he can't tell much of the time.

The main event is stagnant because they aren't trying hard enough to build new stars...just like WCW.

If TNA is the new WCW then WWE is the new WCW with better financial planning and spending.

 

[Nemi]

does it really matter? he's retired

I don't like it much myself, but this is probably going to lead to the WWE and WHC titles switching shows

That's a good point but WWE loves using retired superstars. When they come back it's a big deal it's a ratings boost for big events. Something like that could be a reason for Edge to say screw you when they call him to appear on a show.

 

[TX85]

I don't think Christian's moment will actually fade away and mean nothing!!,10 years from now nobody is going to remember that Christian lost the title in 2 days(IF they do remember it,it'll be as him getting f** over and as a screwjob after re-watching it on dvd or something),But Christian pulling down the world title and celebrating with Edge will stand the test of time as a great moment in wrestling history and It'll be timeless!!

 

[Dr. Evil]

The only reason Kong has heat is because she won't "hang out" with Johnny Ace. She probably knows he's a piece of turd anyways.

 

[venom892]

Whether it was Del Rio or Christian losing it to Orton, Having such short title reigns devalues a title. I liked that Miz at least had a respectable reign.

 

[bullets]

I wonder how Christian feels right now. He knew about all this?

I'm sure he's used to disappointment but at least now he can say he won the big one.

I don't hate Orton, I actually like him... but the moved him to SmackDown to get him out of John Cena's shadow and IF that report is accurate and that's the reason behind Christians loss... then that just proves it.

I don't think Orton chose Smackdown. The moment they mentioned a draft it was assumed he would be moved to fill the gap. I would of preferred Cena to move but I guess you need him on Raw in case Rock shows up.

 

[bullets]

Whether it was Del Rio or Christian losing it to Orton, Having such short title reigns devalues a title. I liked that Miz at least had a respectable reign.

I tend to care more when there is a build up. I'm not against surprise title wins if they elevate a new star but this does nothing for anyone.

 

[Project862006]

according to PWI christian losing title was once again because Vince does not see him as a top guy and gave him title as a constellation prize

which makes no sesne because did kane not get a 6 month title reign on sd last year

 

[Wylie Times]

according to PWI christian losing title was once again because Vince does not see him as a top guy and gave him title as a constellation prize

which makes no sense because did kane not get a 6 month title reign on sd last year

Well **** what Vince sees.

I suddenly don't see the need to watch Smackdown anymore. The Christian Del Rio stuff gave me a reason to at least tune in from time to time. I hope enough people say "**** Smackdown" and stop watching it to make a noticeable drop in ratings.